Set 18

[Drifter]

kitten man

Any ideas about who this person may be or there where abouts?
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By catch_him
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2 years ago
214 Posts

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KM
Still working on it...
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By Archangel76
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2 years ago
2159 Posts
KM?
Did LE ever go to the media regarding this POI in the early days of the investigation? Maybe there were others approached with this ruse prior to Janelle.
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By ZForce
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2 years ago
503 Posts
Re: KM?
Posted By: ZForce
Did LE ever go to the media regarding this POI in the early days of the investigation? Maybe there were others approached with this ruse prior to Janelle.
As is becoming all too predictable... no.
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By Archangel76
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2 years ago
2159 Posts
Re: KM?
Posted By: ZForce
Did LE ever go to the media regarding this POI in the early days of the investigation? Maybe there were others approached with this ruse prior to Janelle.

Note that the invesigators did go to the poster who relayed the kitten man info on this board shortly after Janelle's murder. As you can see in this interview with Det. Montgomery from JJ's site, the poster failed to report the "kitten man" story. I think it has become more urban legend than fact.


Interview from "JJ's website with Det. Montgomery:

"The poster on the AETV website was interviewed by the police on May 6, 1986, at 7:23 pm (this would be two days after the murder which probably occurred about 11 pm on May 4, 1986). He was an acquaintance of Ms. Cruz and in 1986 he told investigators that he had last seen her on April 29th and had last talked to her on the phone two nights before the murder (May 3, 1986). He did not claim to have visited her home before the murder was discovered or recounted her appointment with an old friend for the morning after the murder, nor the sighting of the strange car parked at her home. The kitten man was never mentioned at the time as a suspect by the poster and no such suspect turned up in the investigation. Inv. Montgomery does remember vaguely that the poster’s father was a weird character who had had several run-ins with the law over the years and was well known to the police."
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Edited by PortofLeith, 2 years ago
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By PortofLeith
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2 years ago
953 Posts
Kitten Man: Fact or Urband Legend

Port,

The KM started to fade into irrelevance until Janelle's sister provided the information about the Marine that Janelle was dating shortly before her murder. Because the KM was described as staying with a Marine (and the EAR has a muscular build and is a consummate liar) it is possible that all these can be reconciled into the same person.

The fact is that this Marine has not been identified either. I do not think that enough effort has been expended trying to identify the kitten man. We simply need only look at the San Ramon situation to see how deeply Mr. Tank Top was investigated or to Carmichael to see how deeply the Oldsmobile information was investigated. Capt. Rupf made a similar statement about Mrs. Appel regarding Mr. Tank Top. I have seen little follow up on some of the most important leads in the case. Even if what Montgomery says is true, one would still expect a follow up based on new information.

There have been cases that have been turned on witnesses who grow up and come forward and provide more of what they knew.
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Edited by Archangel76, 2 years ago
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By Archangel76
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2 years ago
2159 Posts

[Drifter]

LA Magazine article

the March issue of LA Magazine, will have an ONS article, viewable online at www.lamag,com on Wednesday, Feb. 27th (hard copies are now available at some LA area libraries). The only new thing I saw was that there is a handwriting sample from ONS--maybe relatives of POIs can verify it? This may be especially good if ONS is deceased and DNA is not available.



On Wednesday online there will also be a clip of what investigators believe may be his voice --- a wrong number call to a victim, same victim that got the infamous heavy breathing call. This call is a man's voice asking, "Is Ray there?" but it's much clearer and more identifiable than the obscene call. I wonder who Ray is?

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By jgg2009
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4 months ago
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Re: Re: LA Magazine article
Posted By: greg26011979
I am now conviced that he was a lot younger when he started. Probably aged 18-22 at best. I am also now thinking given his athletic ability, he may have actually stalked the neighbourhoods by jogging or cycling through them during daytime hours.

I have always thought that.I posted a story along time ago about burglaries in a neighborhood i grew up in, that were very similar to the visalia ransacker .This was in NY in 1981-82 and when the Police caught him,it turned out he was a classmate of mine and only 14 years old.He would ransack the house and rip up pictures of young female children in the house. He never took anything of real value.3 years later he murdered a 9 year old girl walking to the corner store. He was LE's first suspect because of his bizarre hatred he showed of young girls from his previous crimes.He got 25 years to life and though he has already been up for parole they will never let him out.
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Edited by tad, 3 months ago
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By tad
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3 months ago
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If
If he was 18-22 he had adult supervision.
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By f1guyus
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3 months ago
1265 Posts
Re: Re: Re: LA Magazine article
Posted By: the confidence is the balaclava
Posted By: greg26011979
I am now conviced that he was a lot younger when he started. Probably aged 18-22 at best. I am also now thinking given his athletic ability, he may have actually stalked the neighbourhoods by jogging or cycling through them during daytime hours.
You and I are the only two people who think he is young. So why are you convinced?

I think you are right about his age. I don't think he was pretending to be a jogger or a cyclist. I think he was both a jogger and a cyclist. He was multitasking. Out for a jog and peeping.
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Edited by Repoman, 3 months ago
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By Repoman
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3 months ago
1487 Posts
Re: If
Posted By: f1guyus
If he was 18-22 he had adult supervision.
What?

The sexual burglaries. Ive been saying for a while, those are usually done by teenagers, or close to the teen years. Earons might be on an emotional level that that is in the one digits, so that might account for someone older doing it.

But matched with his voice (ymmv, i find it very young), his agility, the fact that so many school girls are his victims (closer to his age) along with women,etc I cant recall it all right now becuase im being distracted. But the girl he drags out by the canal. He is talking to her as if he knows her from school. Was it mentioned if he was still clenching his teeth then? Was he doing it when he said he had to get home before his parents? It seems like he wouldnt be. And he must have sounded like a college aged kid in his late teens low 20s for her to believe him when he told her he knew her from college, whether all of it was true or a ruse.

I get the feeling, as more things come together, that he was 18-22, had a dad who was strict, either military or cop, maybe, and a mom who was weak and didnt protect him, or a hated stepmother, possibly. But ..just the way he delighted in ripping apart a home makes me think that he was held to strict orderliness at home. Why does someone so seemingly organized and OCD about things delight in ruining a home like VR did? OCD causes you to have anxiety when things are out of order, and he showed this with the example of the girl by the canal, for eg.

If it was an impulse that was organically inside himself alone, I dont know that it would come out that way. He cant help the OCD, but he could be put under stress at home that was beyond what he could control, also, and that could make him want to do the opposite of what was going on at home. I think the picture that is developing, is that he was a troubled kid and his parents knew it. If there was ever a question of military service, i dont think he could hack it, or his parents knew he couldnt hack it. And that he may have had a psych record, but not a criminal one. Just a thought



Re the infighting going on above in the thread: Just let it be. No one is here because they like each other, we're all here for another reason. Whether guessting was stalked by the earons is not important to the case.



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By the confidence is the balaclava
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3 months ago
469 Posts
Re: Re: Re: Re: LA Magazine article
Posted By: Repoman
Posted By: the confidence is the balaclava
Posted By: greg26011979
I am now conviced that he was a lot younger when he started. Probably aged 18-22 at best. I am also now thinking given his athletic ability, he may have actually stalked the neighbourhoods by jogging or cycling through them during daytime hours.
You and I are the only two people who think he is young. So why are you convinced?
I think you are right about his age. I don't think he was pretending to be a jogger or a cyclist. I think he was both a jogger and a cyclist. He was multitasking. Out for a jog and peeping.

And he obviously did not look threatening if he was young and had a young mans lighter build.

Maybe he even had acne. Criminals dont have acne ! ;p



Edited to say: Lone men walking through neighborhoods or especially at night are conspicuous. A guy who looks to be in his late teens early twenties does too, but not nearly as much.
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Edited by the confidence is the balaclava, 3 months ago
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By the confidence is the balaclava
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3 months ago
469 Posts
Re: LA Magazine article

The kid that was ransacking the homes in my post was the paperboy.He knew everybody in the neighborhoods schedule.Either from delivering the paper or when he did his collections.And this was a 14 year old kid.And yes i believe Earons young boyish appearence didnt raise any suspicions.
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Edited by tad, 3 months ago
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By tad
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3 months ago
102 Posts
Re: Re: LA Magazine article
Posted By: tad

The kid that was ransacking the homes in my post was the paperboy.He knew everybody in the neighborhoods schedule.Either from delivering the paper or when he did his collections.And this was a 14 year old kid.And yes i believe Earons young boyish appearence didnt raise any suspicions.
That is chilling, but psychopathic kids are not new. Whats scary about that is the little * was organized, just like the ears.

I also forgot, the Danville man that scared him said he had boyish eyes with large irises and long lashes. I dont know how he got all of that in the dark, but...

I also dont know what boyish eyes are, other than maybe he meant they were large? Or maybe he meant with the lashes they looked boyish.

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By the confidence is the balaclava
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3 months ago
469 Posts
Re: LA Magazine article
It's a shame about Ray.
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By the confidence is the balaclava
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3 months ago
469 Posts
Re: LA Magazine article
It says 12 pages of posts at the bottom, and only 7 of them have posts on them...
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By applauding marauder
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3 months ago
188 Posts

[Drifter]

La Riviera Dr and the EAR

Went to JJ's site and saw Port's link to an article in the Modesto Bee about EAR/ONS on Google News, so I started going thru all the Modesto Bee articles and noticed in the following article EAR had committed 5 rapes in a residential area on a road roughly 3 miles long(per google map). To me that is just unbelievable and significant. Why would he want to terrorize this street? Did he live here? Did he go to Isador Cohen Elementary?

Well, the link I posted doesn't work, so you have to go to google news and put east area rapist la riviera dr and click search, should be the 3rd Modesto Bee article that just says Rapist.
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Edited by thelostsock, 3 years ago
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By thelostsock
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3 years ago
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Re: I do think it is strange..
Posted By: guessting

lostsock,

I do think there is a reason for those attacks. They seemed to be so simple for him. There is a little stretch of La Riviera that heads towards Howe Ave. coming from the Watt Ave. exit onto La Riviera. A couple of the attacks there were in very small, close together housing. Looking more like four plexes, than single family housing. There is a small drive into one of those locations that finds one of the locations that basically is backed up to the levy of the river. It seemed like that would of been an easier target to come in off the river bank, strike and disappear without ever being noticed. Some of the others are single family housing that sit deep in the block the house is on.

La Riviera exits from Watt Ave. and you can shortcut to Folsom Blvd. (cutting out traffic) unless you resided there. La Riveira ends on Foldom Blvd. Foldom Blvd. is (I have never clocked it) approx a few miles from Mather and you can enter right into the gate of the base by turning right. If you take a left turn instead you are on Paseo, where he first EAR attack took place. I will see what the exact mileage is the next time I travel that path. They are all very close together.

Another thing I find interesting is that the children who were in the house at the time of the attacks were never interviewed by the Sacramento Police Department. The Sacramento Sheriff's Depatment did interview all the children who were in the house of attack. So did EAR possibly know that. Although he hit houses in the jurisdiction in which the children were interviewed was he aware that there were some who were not being interviewed? Food for thought. It may mean nothing as bold and fearless as EAR seemed during his Sacramento reign. g
I've lived here my entire life. My POI was living on Mather, and he could have easily biked out the back (west) gate, and either taken Mayhew directly to the river or the bike trail to La Riviera. Also, the top of the river levee was graded and gravelled, so that's another easy dark route from La Riviera/Howe all the way back beyond Watt.
There are so many ways to quietly and quickly get from Coloma Rd. in Rancho to his attack sites in Carmichael, La Riviera, even Foothill Farms. You don't need to use the public roads until you get close.
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By Dogs
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2 years ago
51 Posts
Re: La Riviera Dr and the EAR
On the old board I posted under the same moniker...the_lost_sock. In regards to the age of EAR/ONS....NOT ONE *&%^%*^$$ ON THIS MESSAGE BOARD KNOWS THE AGE OF THIS POS. This bizarre conclusion on the age just baffles me to no end...just wow.
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By thelostsock
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2 years ago
224 Posts
Age and other factors

thelostsock- I should have said your "avatar" was a Dairy Queen sign. It always confused me because Hmmm had the avatar of a single sock. The reason I asked about the initial "E" is because if the last name is "C" he was black. That sort of rules him out in my book. If I have the wrong initials, please private message a name to me and I will help you in any way I can.
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Edited by PortofLeith, 2 years ago
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By PortofLeith
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2 years ago
953 Posts
Re: Re: La Riviera Dr and the EAR
Posted By: thelostsock

So, I'm bored and waiting on my financial situation to solidify in order to get a DNA sample from my POI and decided to take a look at a murder victim not associated with the EAR but located in the La Riviera Dr area. Spent my 1.95 and took a look at his previous addresses(in no particular order):

2954 Joerger St
Rancho Cordova CA

10700 Coloma Rd
Rancho Cordova CA

7033 53rd Ave
Sacramento CA

2860 Norcade Cir
Sacramento CA

5100 Garfield Ave
Sacramento CA

Intelius indicated he had also lived in Fair Oaks CA and Los Angeles CA but did not provide the addresses.

It's a head scratcher if you take those addresses and go to JJMCGR google site and open the map of the EAR crimes, these addresses appears to be very close to some groupings of the early crimes, perhaps someone with the exact addresses of victims could look to see how close? Don't want to post his name but more than happy to send it via PM.

(Edit) His murder is also unsolved.



Is this the murder that you are referring to? The following question was posted just three days before someone asked Whatever happened to the East Area Rapist in the same section of the bee (Ask Sacto 9-1-1).

www.sacbee.com/qna/forum/crime/index-p18.html


Q: Can you tell me what happened to the case of Ed Chaney who was murdered in November 2008? Submitted by Anonymous from Sacramento A: The slaying of Chaney - also known as "Chaney Ice" - remains unsolved. His body was found on Nov. 10, 2008, in his duplex on Salmon Falls Drive, near La Riviera Drive, The Bee reported. Chaney, 52, had been shot multiple times. Anyone with information about the case is asked to call Crime Alert at (916) 443-HELP. Callers can remain anonymous and may be eligible for a reward of up to $1,000.Answered at 6:46 PM on December 26, 2009, by Sacramento Bee StaffRead more: www.sacbee.com/qna/forum/crime/index-p18.html#ixzz1MoXF9ngI
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Edited by Repoman, 2 years ago
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By Repoman
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2 years ago
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Re: Re: La Riviera Dr and the EAR
Posted By: thelostsock
On the old board I posted under the same moniker...the_lost_sock. In regards to the age of EAR/ONS....NOT ONE *&%^%*^$$ ON THIS MESSAGE BOARD KNOWS THE AGE OF THIS POS. This bizarre conclusion on the age just baffles me to no end...just wow.
It's depressing, Mr. TheLostSock, but an approximation on Mr. EAR-ONS' age is as good as it gets it seems..... even Mr. Archangel's website lists the possible age of The East Area Rapist when he got started in June 1976, if I am remembering correctly..... this is the problem when one is working with hypotheses and theory .... about the only thing that can be said definitively about Mr. EAR-ONS is he had a small penis and he ate food like a loud piggy of the night... and a few other things, of course...
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By AaronTimones
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2 years ago
1103 Posts
Re: Re: Re: La Riviera Dr and the EAR
Posted By: AaronTimones
the only thing that can be said definitively about Mr. EAR-ONS is he had a small penis and he ate food like a loud piggy of the night... and a few other things, of course...

It's rather ugly and sad when the only things that are known about a man are that his penis is small, he's forced sex upon over sixty women, murdered six of them, and murdered four of their male intimates. I can't wait for him to be identified. I can't wait to see his face reflect the knowledge that his name and face have been formally reconciled with those more important aspects of who he is.
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Edited by SpeakelOfEngrish, 2 years ago
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By SpeakelOfEngrish
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2 years ago
1090 Posts
Good Quote ...

"It's rather ugly and sad when the only things that are known about a man are that his penis is small, he's forced sex upon over sixty women, murdered six of them, and murdered four of their male intimates. I can't wait for him to be identified. I can't wait to see his face reflect the knowledge that his name and face have been formally reconciled with those more important aspects of who he is."
ROFL. I like that quote.

I am looking for a black/Middle Eastern male, or others who match the MO or DNA for the Morgan Harrington crime. It was revealed that he had attacked someone before, and I wonder why it was left on the shirt.

Here is the link to the DNA match and sketch:

www.readthehook.com/67207/cold-hit-police-connect-morgan-harrington-slaying-fairfax-attack
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Edited by caseprofiler, 2 years ago
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By caseprofiler
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2 years ago
235 Posts
Re: La Riviera Dr and the EAR

It's rather ugly and sad when the only things that are known about a man are that his penis is small, he's forced sex upon over sixty women, murdered six of them, and murdered four of their male intimates. I can't wait for him to be identified. I can't wait to see his face reflect the knowledge that his name and face have been formally reconciled with those more important aspects of who he is.

I have the feeling he'll be caught - and soon.... and that's all there is to it....
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By AaronTimones
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2 years ago
1103 Posts
Re: Re: Re: La Riviera Dr and the EAR
Posted By: AaronTimones
Posted By: thelostsock
On the old board I posted under the same moniker...the_lost_sock. In regards to the age of EAR/ONS....NOT ONE *&%^%*^$$ ON THIS MESSAGE BOARD KNOWS THE AGE OF THIS POS. This bizarre conclusion on the age just baffles me to no end...just wow.
It's depressing, Mr. TheLostSock, but an approximation on Mr. EAR-ONS' age is as good as it gets it seems..... even Mr. Archangel's website lists the possible age of The East Area Rapist when he got started in June 1976, if I am remembering correctly..... this is the problem when one is working with hypotheses and theory .... about the only thing that can be said definitively about Mr. EAR-ONS is he had a small penis and he ate food like a loud piggy of the night... and a few other things, of course...
I'm not depressed, just irritated. Grab a bag of cheetos and pop open a can of Vanilla Coke, turn on the TV and hopefully you'll see him being arrested on his way to Taco Bell.
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By thelostsock
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2 years ago
224 Posts
Depression... Puffy Cheetos... Vanilla Coke... Mouth-Watering Chalupas
Posted By: thelostsock
Posted By: AaronTimones
Posted By: thelostsock
On the old board I posted under the same moniker...the_lost_sock. In regards to the age of EAR/ONS....NOT ONE *&%^%*^$$ ON THIS MESSAGE BOARD KNOWS THE AGE OF THIS POS. This bizarre conclusion on the age just baffles me to no end...just wow.
It's depressing, Mr. TheLostSock, but an approximation on Mr. EAR-ONS' age is as good as it gets it seems..... even Mr. Archangel's website lists the possible age of The East Area Rapist when he got started in June 1976, if I am remembering correctly..... this is the problem when one is working with hypotheses and theory .... about the only thing that can be said definitively about Mr. EAR-ONS is he had a small penis and he ate food like a loud piggy of the night... and a few other things, of course...
I'm not depressed, just irritated. Grab a bag of cheetos and pop open a can of Vanilla Coke, turn on the TV and hopefully you'll see him being arrested on his way to Taco Bell.

Hey, Mr. TheLostSock, sir.

Sir, I never ever meant to intimate you were personally depressed or anything...... I was just making a generalized statement about the state of affairs of this case...... you know, with it being unsolved for as long as it has been and all......

Anyway.... I like what you said about Mr. EAR-ONS being arrested "...on his way to Taco Bell." ....

I, too, would want Law Enforcement to capture Mr. EAR-ONS before he goes into a Taco Bell rather than capture him on his way out of a Taco Bell.... no nasty, evil, serial killer like Mr. EAR-ONS should enjoy a tasty Chalupa before being hauled off to The Big House.... he's had it too good for too long and does not deserve to have one last wonderful meal as a free man....

In all seriousness, though.... if your research ends up perhaps capturing Mr. EAR-ONS... awesome.....

Thank you kindly.
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Edited by AaronTimones, 2 years ago
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By AaronTimones
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2 years ago
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Re: La Riviera Dr and the EAR
Thanks AT, your support brightens my day.
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By thelostsock
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2 years ago
224 Posts
Re: Age and other factors
Posted By: PortofLeith

thelostsock- I should have said your "avatar" was a Dairy Queen sign. It always confused me because Hmmm had the avatar of a single sock. The reason I asked about the initial "E" is because if the last name is "C" he was black. That sort of rules him out in my book. If I have the wrong initials, please private message a name to me and I will help you in any way I can.
Port, I'm not saying EC was the EAR/ONS but perhaps knew him given the geographical locations he lived and died in. Now in the decal thread you say the driver of the vehicle gave a name and ss# of a black person. Anyone know if EC was in the military? Did EC know the person that the driver gave as his own name? Was EC a truck driver?
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By thelostsock
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2 years ago
224 Posts
Re: La Riviera Dr and the EAR
Any thoughts about this thread DanCartell? lol
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By thelostsock
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2 years ago
224 Posts
Re: Re: La Riviera Dr and the EAR
Posted By: thelostsock
Any thoughts about this thread DanCartell? lol
Hmmm ............. the thread is quite interesting , but Im kind of in various thoughts about the high frequency of attacks in La Riviera drive it could be maybe EAR liked it, maybe the road /area has personal significance who knows......anyway I kinda found it funny how the thread kind of diverted into details of his manhood (LOL)-nearly cracked my ribs!
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By DanCartell
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2 years ago
683 Posts
Asked an acquaintance to see if he could run a license plate in Australia
I'm curious to see what it turns up.
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By thelostsock
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2 years ago
224 Posts

[Drifter]

EAR/ONS and Keddie Murders of Northern CA

There are a number of commonalites in the cases:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Keddie_Murders

www.keddiemurdersfilm.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=293
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By ladyofthelake
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2 years ago
209 Posts

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Re: EAR/ONS and Keddie Murders of Northern CA
The Cabin 28/Keddie Murders is a case that has repeatedly come to my mind when considering unsolved crimes that could have been the work of the EAR-ONS.
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By SpeakelOfEngrish
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2 years ago
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Re: EAR/ONS and Keddie Murders of Northern CA

The Keddie murders happened on either 4/11 or 4/12/81. According to the masterlist of crimes, the EAR/ONS was "inactive" from 2/5/1981 to 7/27/1981.

The terrorizing murdering Keddie rapist(s) bound the victims and violently beat them to death with a hammer. He didn't physically harm the young boys (just murdered their family members!); but kidnapped their baby sister who he (they) later murdered near a place called Feather Falls, CA. This killer obviously had a deep-seated anger and hatred for young girls and women. These violent murders took place north of Sacramento and east of Oroville, CA.

Following the timeframe of EAR/ONS again, his next acts were raping and murdering couples in Southern, CA. In one case, it seems he bluggeoned someone to death with an instrument that left circular shapes on their head and torso. It was overkill if I remember correctly. . .and by now, he is careful not to get their messy blood on himself.
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Edited by ladyofthelake, 2 years ago
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By ladyofthelake
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2 years ago
209 Posts
Re: EAR/ONS and Keddie Murders of Northern CA

It's hard to imagine that the Cabin 28 murders were carried out by a single perpetrator. Then again, there was much speculation prior to the apprehension of Joseph E. Duncan III that the kidnapping of Shasta and Dylan Groene, and the murders of their mother, mother's fiancé, and older brother couldn't have managed by a lone assailant. But, Duncan was the sole perpetrator in a crime that is eerily similar, in fact, to the Keddie murders: three people were killed by bludgeoning at the scene, zip ties were used (in the Keddie case, it was electrical wire and medical tape), two children were taken from the scene and sexually assaulted (one later murdered), and there was a cabin involved.

These similarities are striking and, as previously stated, eerie, but there's no possible way for Duncan to have been the perpetrator, as he was imprisoned in Washington state at the time.

Therefore, what we can take away from that is, two different crimes can be uncannily similar, yet not be related in any way. The similarities between the Keddie Murders and the ONS crimes—home invasion, binding, some bludgeoning, sexual assault—are far outnumbered by the differences. There are crimes (like Duncan's Idaho murders) that are more similar to the Keddie murders than the ONs murders, and there are crimes that are more similar to the ONS murders (Gerald Parker, aka The Bedroom Basher) than the Keddie Murders.

The Keddie Murders remain, for me, a tantilizing mystery, and separately, an intriguing question mark where the EAR-ONS is concerned, but I ultimately don't think they're related.

Keep in mind:
The victims were stabbed and strangled, in addition to bludgeoned, in the Keddie Murders. EAR-ONS never stabbed or strangled.
Electrical wire and medical tape were used to bind. EAR-ONS never implemented such things.
A victim was taken from and killed away from the scene. EAR-ONS was not comfortable with nor skilled at doing this.
The EAR's "periods of inactivity" were very long, subsequent to his EAR tenure, and therefore less significant for determining their meaning.

CORRECTION: EAR did use electrical cord (different than wire, though) to bind victims in a few instances.
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Edited by SpeakelOfEngrish, 2 years ago
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By SpeakelOfEngrish
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2 years ago
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Re: EAR/ONS and Keddie Murders of Northern CA

I wrote:

Therefore, what we can take away from that is, two different crimes can be uncannily similar, yet not be related in any way.

I should add that specific similarities in M.O. cannot be ignored, such as what the Goleta Killer's survivors reported the perpetrator said and did. In that case, the perpetrator's behavior so closely matched the known idiosyncrasies of the EAR that there should be little doubt it was the same individual.


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By SpeakelOfEngrish
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2 years ago
1090 Posts
Re: EAR/ONS and Keddie Murders of Northern CA
Speakel, you offer good arguments against the connection. But, if I didn't know the EAR/ONS were the same person, I might argue that EAR hadn't blungeoned anyone to death, so he couldn't be ONS. Of course we know the similarities in the two swing the pendulum the other way. I suppose DNA comparison would answer the question.
EAR/ONS did graduate in his violence though. He almost always brought or used a knife to terrorize his victims. We know the EAR's rapes and terrorizing escalated into murder, and that into overkill. Could have been he finally unleashed his knife during the Keddie Murders, but decided it was too messy or gross. Granted, EAR/ONS was a planner who usually came prepared with his binding materials; however, he did borrow electrical cords (blow dryer?) from a crime scene in order to bind his victims. I'll have to read more about the Keddie Murders. Seems there were two perpetrators. Maybe this wasn't a planned attack, just an opportunistic one. Who ever dunnit moved on to a new location. There are certainly plenty of unsolved knife/strangulation cold cases out there.I definitely missed that there were two young girls taken from the scene (one for each perpetrator?) EAR/ONS did have a sidekick when he shot and killed the Maggories (SP?), did he not? At least there were two composites on the wanted poster.Agreed, the crimes could most certainly be unrelated. Only God and the killers know for sure.
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By ladyofthelake
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2 years ago
209 Posts
Re: EAR/ONS and Keddie Murders of Northern CA
Oops, forgot two points:
1. EAR/ONS that we know of didn't abduct, rape, murder, and dispose of children. . .unless he graduated to that.2. You said: "The EAR's "periods of inactivity" were very long, subsequent to his EAR tenure, and therefore less significant for determining their meaning." Is this gobbledygook for, "We don't know what the EAR/ONS was doing during his Leave of Absence"? : )
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By ladyofthelake
Member
2 years ago
209 Posts
Re: EAR/ONS and Keddie Murders of Northern CA

I definitely missed that there were two young girls taken from the scene (one for each perpetrator?

No, only one girl was taken from the Keddie scene. I was describing the "Jet" Duncan crime scene in Idaho, and perhaps I should have made that a little clearer. He took two children from the scene—a boy and a girl. He later murdered the boy.

Seems there were two perpetrators

Is that your own deduction, or did you read that somewhere? My knowledge of the Keddie case is it a little rusty. I read a longish article on it once, I believe, and this was a while ago.

EAR/ONS did have a sidekick when he shot and killed the Maggories (SP?), did he not?

There isn't any proof that EAR/ONS was involved in the Maggiores' murders. Some investigators think he was (enough for a too-sizable chunk of the E! THS Investigates special to be dedicated to the crime), others think he wasn't. Recently, Archangel76 (who runs the ear-ons.com website) has stated his opinion that he does not believe the Maggiores' deaths to have been connected to the EAR/ONS. I'm pretty sure this is a change of view from what he'd previously believed, so that's substantial in itself, but all the more substantial coming from Arch, who knows the ins and outs about this case and is personally connected with many of the first-generation players (investigators, etc). Outside of the law enforcement community, Arch is the authority on this case. I previously had doubts about the Maggiores, and at this juncture, I don't even consider them when thinking about or researching EAR/ONS.
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By SpeakelOfEngrish
Member
2 years ago
1090 Posts
Sooo ...
Ladyofthelake:
You are surmising that he was murdering elsewhere, which is why he was able to take a break? Do you think EAR/ONS was crafty enough to change his MO by one or two pieces at a time, along with the jurisdiction to elude LE?
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By caseprofiler
Member
2 years ago
235 Posts
Re: EAR/ONS and Keddie Murders of Northern CA

ladyofthelake wrote:

Oops, forgot two points:
1. EAR/ONS that we know of didn't abduct, rape, murder, and dispose of children. . .unless he graduated to that.2. You said: "The EAR's "periods of inactivity
" were very long, subsequent to his EAR tenure, and therefore less significant for determining their meaning." Is this gobbledygook for, "We don't know what the EAR/ONS was doing during his Leave of Absence"? : )

1. 1981 was, on the timeline, closer to the beginning of his career as a serial killer. The three murders, and two scenes, that followed the Keddie Murders (in time) would represent, then, a deescalation of violence if we were to hypothetically accept the Keddie Murders as his work.
2. Not exactly. The Visalia Ransacker and East Area Rapist were very prolific, offending multiple times each month. With EAR, if there was a "period of inactivity" for three months, it's worth examining so as to explore possibile explanations for that inactivity. For instance, does that period coincide with a break in class schedules at American River College or Sac State? Does it coincide with something else? With a period of five years, the possibilities become far more vast. Sick? In prison? A new father? Born again? Moved out of the state? Lots and lots of rapes and murders occur in any five year period, especially in California in the early 80s (arguably, California in the 80s represents the apex of serial predator activity). Five years is a long time. The chances of the Keddie Murders having occurred on the same day as one of the EAR-ONS' ten murders would've been pretty slim, and the EAR-ONS was technically "inactive" on any day in which a crime was not committed (e.g., the day after the Cruz homicide).
So, given the infrequency of offenses once the very frequent EAR crimes stopped, "period of inactivity" doesn't carry a great deal of meaning.
Have i sufficiently clarified?
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By SpeakelOfEngrish
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2 years ago
1090 Posts
Re: EAR/ONS and Keddie Murders of Northern CA

I stand corrected on the electrical cord, and I'll make the appropriate correction to my earlier post.

I can only recall one instance in which EAR removed a victim from the house, and it was an instance in which (if I recall correctly) the EAR became confused and did not rape the victim. If you accept that Visalia Ransacker and EAR are the same individual (which I do), then his attempt to remove Claude Snelling's daughter from the home was unsuccessful. Kidnapping was not a component of his M.O. His attempts to do so were either unsuccessful or were marked by an absence of the comfort and confidence he exhibited in executed his typical M.O.

And finally, anyone who unwaveringly believes, and campaigns to convince others, that Ted Kaczynski was the EAR-ONS is in no position to diagnose anyone else as a "numbskull."


EDIT: I'm presently vulnerable in that I'm very tired and should probably cease my posting activity for the night. I said electrical wire, you said electrical cord. They're two distinctly different things, and I'm not splitting hairs. I "stood corrected," really, for no good reason.
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By SpeakelOfEngrish
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2 years ago
1090 Posts
Re: EAR/ONS and Keddie Murders of Northern CA
I love how you believe it is okay for you to say these things. EAR transported multiple victims outside of their homes and left them in drainage ditches or tied them to trees. That is successful kidnapping. That is why he has multiple kidnapping charges which can be filed at any time for him in Sacramento. There is nothing EARONS is not comfortable doing. He demonstrated this quite clearly by walking around in 1970s gun crazy Sacramento with a hood on his face and his testicles dangling in the air. It is this profound lack of fear, fear of capture, justice or death that enables him to do anything he wants. Comfort? MO? These are figments of your very innocent imagination.
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By Cimmerian10
Member
2 years ago
1000 Posts
Re: EAR/ONS and Keddie Murders of Northern CA

Cimm,

Interesting that you speak in present tense with respect to a criminal who has not offended since 1986 and, for all we know, may be long-deceased.

I only recall a single instance described in Sudden Terror in which a victim was removed from the home. An article from the early '80s, about the EAR, plainly states that while the statute of limitations had expired on the Sacramento rapes, there was one kidnapping charge for which the EAR could still be prosecuted, due to his having removed the victim from the home.

If I am mistaken (and maybe I am), please cite all instances in which a victim was removed from the home.

And again, you believe Ted Kaczynski is the EAR-ONS. This nullifies, and makes ironic, any condescension you may attempt.
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By SpeakelOfEngrish
Member
2 years ago
1090 Posts
Anything is possible ... all possibilities should be explored ...

It is possible he knew of Ted, or someone like him. I will be happy when the DNA comes back so he can be excluded. I heard rumors they were running that DNA, in the new familial DNA program/database. I will be glad when the loony theories about TK are put to rest, that AKwilkes and others bring up.
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By caseprofiler
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2 years ago
235 Posts
Re: EAR/ONS and Keddie Murders of Northern CA
I, like many others, believe Ted Kaczynski is EARONS, as he owned or drove the same vehicles as EARONS, fit his physical description and looked exactly like him, expressed s desire to rape women in front of their husbands, and to kill couples, spent lots of time in Sacramento and Davis, CA and targeted the same university science department EAR targeted on five different occasions. If you don't believe Ted is THE prime EARONS candidate, you are a numbskull. I'm not going to do your homework for you, go read Sudden Terror. Thanks for tuning in tonight ladies and gentleman, please remember that the spin stops here, because I am definitely looking out for you.
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By Cimmerian10
Member
2 years ago
1000 Posts
Really ...

If you really think the similarities are there, why not go through his family members and acquaintances? Was there someone else close to him that knew him, and admired him? He was a very bright math student from Harvard, and didn't he work as a teacher, or teachers aide?

What is the name of the similar Idaho case? I had never heard of the Cabin 28 murders, or the Idaho murders.

It's too bad Aaron Timones is not here to tell us what type of anagram akwilks name makes up, or what it's "special meaning" is.
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By caseprofiler
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2 years ago
235 Posts
Re: EAR/ONS and Keddie Murders of Northern CA

Cimmerian10 wrote:

I, like many others, believe Ted Kaczynski is EARONS

"many others" = akwilks. "Many" is not usually synonymous with "one."

Thanks for tuning in tonight ladies and gentleman, please remember that the spin stops here, because I am definitely looking out for you.

No one who closes a post with a Bill O'Reilly impression can really be serious. I think you just outed yourself.






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By SpeakelOfEngrish
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2 years ago
1090 Posts
Re: EAR/ONS and Keddie Murders of Northern CA

Kim Alcone - The Wrong Victim


E.C.A. -- K.B.O.
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By AaronTimones
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2 years ago
1103 Posts
Re: Really ...
Posted By: caseprofiler

If you really think the similarities are there, why not go through his family members and acquaintances? Was there someone else close to him that knew him, and admired him? He was a very bright math student from Harvard, and didn't he work as a teacher, or teachers aide?

What is the name of the similar Idaho case? I had never heard of the Cabin 28 murders, or the Idaho murders.

It's too bad Aaron Timones is not here to tell us what type of anagram akwilks name makes up, or what it's "special meaning" is.

I'm sorry, Ms. Clarice... I can't make an anagram out of Mr. Akwilks name.

Smile
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By AaronTimones
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2 years ago
1103 Posts
Re: EAR/ONS and Keddie Murders of Northern CA

SoE, there are others, it is not just AK Wilks and I. And the interest in Ted Kaczynski as an EARONS suspect grows each day, in fact, the subject draws more attention to this case than anything else, with the viewings of AK Wilks' threads growing exponentially by the thousands each month, elevating AK's status as a man of great intellect and work ethic, qualities that are becoming quite rare these days. I am now going to sign off with a line that is surely going to mesmerize you: good night America, and good luck.
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By Cimmerian10
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2 years ago
1000 Posts
Anchormen ...

Cimmerian10 said:
Re: EAR/ONS and Keddie Murders of Northern CA
SoE, there are others, it is not just AK Wilks and I. And the interest in Ted Kaczynski as an EARONS suspect grows each day, in fact, the subject draws more attention to this case than anything else, with the viewings of AK Wilks' threads growing exponentially by the thousands each month, elevating AK's status as a man of great intellect and work ethic, qualities that are becoming quite rare these days. I am now going to sign off with a line that is surely going to mesmerize you - good night America: and good luck.

Well I guess the "two: of you are quoting various anchormen ... umm okay.
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By caseprofiler
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2 years ago
235 Posts

Quick Reply

[Drifter]

Larry Pool responses

I was recently on youtube looking through the L pool network. I never noticed before, but he responds to comments on the videos. He doesn't answer all comments or questions, but some. It looks as if he is still active in this as he made a comment in July.
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By Bear99
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11 months ago
270 Posts

« Previous 1 2
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Re: Gates of hell
Posted By: SammyT
Posted By: Samk
Men like Det. Pool, Larry, Russ, Arch and others will follow ear/ons to the gates of hell if they have to do that to catch him.
I will always follow this case.
I'm sure I speak for many on this board when I say that once this tragic case grabs hold of you it doesn't let go.

SammyT wrote: "I'm sure I speak for many on this board when I say that once this tragic case grabs hold of you it doesn't let go".

Agreed. I too will always follow this case.

As to year of birth of EAR/ONS ... when I first began my research I assumed he was approx 19 in 1976, or born in 1957. The more I learn about the guy, the more I keep pushing that birth year back. Right now I'd say 1952 is just about right, making him 60 now, assuming he's not deceased.
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Edited by Drifter, 10 months ago
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By Drifter
Member
10 months ago
371 Posts
Re: Larry Pool responses
I don't know Drifter. Det Pool may have believed at he was around 30 when he started. When I looked at the VR and EAR crimes. It seems that he was an experienced criminal so I agree with Greg when he said that the perp was a fully formed offender when he started.
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By Samk
Member
10 months ago
382 Posts
Re: Larry Pool responses
I also thought he was one of my peers growing up (I was born in '57), but I'm likewise re-evaluating downward. I currently think he was born about '53 to '55. I'm still hesitant to reach any further back, at least for now.
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By Dogs
Member
10 months ago
51 Posts
Based on what?
What is the basis for thinking he is that old? That he was a "fully formed" criminal? But what does that entail, in ears' case?
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By the confidence is the balaclava
Member
10 months ago
469 Posts

[Drifter]

Opinions on Bicycle connections?

I was just wondering what all of your opinions are on the following:

1. Sometime before March 13,1980- an epileptic on a bicycle had a seizure and plowed into Lyman Smith’s pickup parked in front of his house on High Point Drive. (Master Timeline)

AND

2. December 12, 1977 - Police spot man with ski mask on, on Watt Ave bridge who left behind a bicycle stolen from Redding, CA. (Master Timeline)

I am just curious as to whether you think the first one was you know who; and if it was, whether it was a real epileptic seizure or if it was just a way to make contact with his potential victims? Regarding the second scenario, has anyone looked into possible Redding connections?
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By lawstudent1
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3 years ago
316 Posts

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Bicycles

That is a question that's been in the back of my mind. Not only what kind of deviant would feign a epileptic seizure ,but actually plan in advance to steal a bike to aid in their escape from a heinous crime,..and it worked...
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By JWBTXS
Member
3 years ago
337 Posts
Interesting information..........

especially scenario 1 , given the amount of preplanning and setting up the attacks EAR went into it would be a perfect scenario to fake an incident to establish contact with potential targets. Given that EAR used to break into places before returning to rape I definitely wouldnt discount scenario 1. The Redding connection is interesting indeed because in October 2006 there was a article in the local paper in Redding were Russ Whitmeyer was quoted and he was saying something to the effect that he thought EAR must have lived in Redding because of the bike stolen there,this may be possible especially if you take into account that there wasnt much EAR activity (as far as I know) in Redding apart from the bike, could Redding have been his back yard that he did not want to foul on (apart from the stolen bike) ? Interestingly Redding seems to be the northern most area linked to EAR could this have significance? Maybe...
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Edited by DanCartell, 2 years ago
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By DanCartell
Member
2 years ago
683 Posts
Too Much of a Coincidence

I don't think the seizure was faked; I think it happened when he was checking the area and doing surveillance on his victims. I wonder if the paramedics have a record of the incident or if it was lost in time? Coincidentally, the other night stalker, Richard Ramirez, was also an epileptic.

Also, when the couple was attacked on Queen Anne Dr. in Goleta, the intruder fled on a stolen bicycle.

Occasionally, I wonder if EAR-ONS was injured or killed in a bicycle accident and that is why he stopped after Janelle Cruz was murdered.
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Edited by AmberCat, 1 year ago
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By AmberCat
Member
1 year ago
16 Posts
EAR link to Redding

www.redding.com/news/2006/sep/30/killer-linked-to-area-investigator-follows-trail/

This must be the article Mr. Cartell was referring to.
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Edited by Cimmerian10, 1 year ago
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By Cimmerian10
Member
1 year ago
1000 Posts
Re: Opinions on Bicycle connections?
This (having a seizure and crashing) could be how ONS came into knowledge of Charlene Smith in the first place and from there decided to make her (and Lyman) his next victims. Question would be, what was he doing in the area. Was this a gated community? If so, would it be less likely that he just rode in from elsewhere or likely he was a resident?
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By erikdavid5111
Member
1 year ago
556 Posts
Re: Opinions on Bicycle connections?

While anything is possible, I don't see EAR/ONS calling attention to himself. Neighbors running out to help him and then being able to give a good description of him. And if he was taken away by ambulance then all the more remote possibility it was EAR/ONS. If EAR/ONS is as smart as some people think, and if EAR/ONS had accidentally crashed and had to be taken away by ambulance then I think that he would have aborted the planned attack.

Actually, I hadn't heard the details of the crash and didn't know about being taken away by ambulance before. I had thought there hadn't been as big a commotion and that someone crashed the bike, got up and kept peddling. If this is the scenario and if it was EAR/ONS and he didn't think anyone got a good look at him that would make more sense to me that he would come back and carry out his planned horrendous crime.

Can anyone fill me in on the details of the crash/seizure/ambulance etc. Thanks

p.s. Erikdavid, I can tell you the Smith's did not live in a gated community. It is at the entrance to a neighborhood and the street is quite steep going up hill from the Smith's. It is not an easy neighborhood to find. Because of it's location, I have a hunch EAR/ONS spotted Charlene in town and followed her. Of course that's just a hunch.
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Edited by Sandia, 1 year ago
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By Sandia
Member
1 year ago
1382 Posts
Bicycle connect: I copied from the other thead -- bicycles far away
bicycles far away
You know me; I'll always go back a parallel VR. VR rode TO SNELLING home on a stolen bicycle. The bicycle had been stolen about a 1 1/2 away and was found in the yard next to Snelling's. Question remains with this: What was the VR's intention with the young girl? Was he going to put her on the handle bars and peddle away, or was he planning to molest her on their patio? A couple of witnesses said that they heard a car speeding away, around 2:30 AM, from the neighborhood. Those who looked out their window in the immediate vicinity of Snellings, however, did not see a car.
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By dengas
Member
1 year ago
966 Posts
Re: Opinions on Bicycle connections?

Here's a shot in the dark: I've read where heat stress can cause seizures for those suffering from epilepsy. Assuming (big assumption here) EAR was epileptic, I wonder if this could have been the reason for him turning down the thermostat in houses. Wearing a ski mask would also worsen the chances for this. I know that the majority consensus on the thermostat issue is that so he could hear better, but this has always struck me as a little too overtop in the terms that he really has almost thought of everthing. But then again, EAR is a different kind of offender and he displayed some very odd behavior while in his victims houses. I am just curious as to whether there was some possible disease as metioned in ST that the dogs picked up on. Another big stretch here, but if this were the case, it might be a possibility of why he didn't prefer to strike in the summer months with a few exceptions.
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By lawstudent1
Member
1 year ago
316 Posts
Where in Redding?
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By Warren
Member
1 year ago
121 Posts
Where in Redding?

Sorry - that sent before I was finished. I was going to ask if anyone knew what street the Redding bicycle was stolen from? If that is considered too confidential, perhaps the nearest street intersections. I'm just looking at some names given me by others on the board that have a Redding connection. Thanks!
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Edited by Warren, 1 year ago
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By Warren
Member
1 year ago
121 Posts
A couple of guesses...

If I had to pick between the possible significance of these two bike-related events I would have to pick the Redding incident. Of course in terms of the epileptic episode-LE should obviously check it out to see if there is anything still there. Maybe they can find a name in a record somewhere and follow it up? Maybe that has been done already…

But I think the Redding case is a more promising lead for one simple consideration. A stolen bike is a seemingly innocuous crime, relatively speaking, and perhaps EAR wasn’t as careful as he normally was in this situation. If you had to bet-wouldn’t you think a stolen bike and a rape scene 150+ miles apart would not be linked to one another? I think it’s reasonable to say that even a careful person could possibly overlook that consideration. And he probably wasn’t planning on being spotted either so maybe he didn’t even consider someone would find the bike. We know that EAR was not mistake-free. He made a couple of mistakes that we know of, perhaps this is another one. And to think of the number of his crimes, the potential for more mistakes is there.

I think it is a much better strategy to drive a couple of miles from a crime scene, park the car, steal a bike from a nearby residence and ride it to and from the crime scene (as opposed to stealing a bike from a neighbor and bringing it to the crime scene). However to me, stealing a bike from so far away doesn’t seem that boneheaded to me what do you guys think? If someone steals your bike do you even bother to report it? I’m sure a lot of people don’t even do that much. And to me that speaks to a possible mistake on his part, since it was relatively easy to overlook. Maybe he did just grab an available bike from a backyard close to his home and brought it to Sac, thinking nothing of it.

In terms of the epileptic episode that seems a lot riskier to me. If he did in fact have a seizure, wouldn’t you scrap that location from your possible list of targets to be safe? It seems awfully noisy to me…
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Edited by Sherlox, 1 year ago
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By Sherlox
Member
1 year ago
152 Posts
Re: Bicycle connect: I copied from the other thead -- bicycles far away
Posted By: dengas
bicycles far away
You know me; I'll always go back a parallel VR. VR rode TO SNELLING home on a stolen bicycle. The bicycle had been stolen about a 1 1/2 away and was found in the yard next to Snelling's. Question remains with this: What was the VR's intention with the young girl? Was he going to put her on the handle bars and peddle away, or was he planning to molest her on their patio? A couple of witnesses said that they heard a car speeding away, around 2:30 AM, from the neighborhood. Those who looked out their window in the immediate vicinity of Snellings, however, did not see a car.

Do you know what high schools were in the locale where the bike was stolen 1.5 miles away?
I think the VR was going to force himself on her, rape her; otherwise, he wouldn't have abducted her. After he murdered her dad, didn't he kick her in the face? That must've been his way of saying, "This is your fault." That kick in the face parallels EAR as well. Brutal woman hater.
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Edited by ladyofthelake, 1 year ago
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By ladyofthelake
Member
1 year ago
209 Posts
Epilepsy and Heat

Epilepsy sounds interesting. This is the address of a discussion on an epilepsy forum. Epilepsy could possibly explain the summer pauses, a/c tampering, and peculiiar behaviors....http://www.coping-with-epilepsy.com/forums/f23/extreme-heat-epilepsy-6833/
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Edited by lerch2010, 1 year ago
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By lerch2010
Member
1 year ago
9 Posts
Re: Epilepsy and Heat
Posted By: lerch2010

Epilepsy sounds interesting. This is the address of a discussion on an epilepsy forum. Epilepsy could possibly explain the summer pauses, a/c tampering, and peculiiar behaviors....http://www.coping-with-epilepsy.com/forums/f23/extreme-heat-epilepsy-6833/

Brilliant stuff, you connected some very interesting dots together ! . Looking through the information in those forums certain things stood out for me:

[Many prescription and non-prescription drugs contain photosensitizing agents that can cause
sunburn, blistering, hives, rash or other skin reactions.] - we know our bogeyman EAR used lotion quite a lot and usually carried it, some here on the board have speculated that EAR may have had some skin problem could this be a link? Another thing to remember is- there was the incident were bloodhounds detected EARs scent and reacted like the guy may have had a drug or metabolic condition..........


Another poster on the epilepsy forum mentioned that she felt sensitive to the sun and heat and it may be due to medication.........applying this info into the EAR context , it makes a potentially interesting reading

Another quote I found interesting is this [“I've identified temperature as one possible trigger for seizures, as in the summer or in hot rooms I very easily fall into a somnolent state, which then triggers partial seizures (or if I fall too deeply into a somnolent state I can have grand mal or complex partial seizures)”] - we know EAR sometimes interfered with the heating ; another possible connection ?



There could be something about this epilepsy connection especially if you consider the incident with Lymans truck..........
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Edited by DanCartell, 1 year ago
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By DanCartell
Member
1 year ago
683 Posts

[Drifter]

How could no one ever notice/suspect him?

Not only am I confused as how SCSD was not able to track him down by attempting to locate all registered VW's Bugs in the county (which seems to be the serial killer vehicle of choice) or 1952-53 yellow Ford pickups, but what really puzzles me is how he flew under the radar by knowing all the following information:

As examples of the many cases of the EAR's preknowledge of the victims' situations, the following may be cited:

-father out of town for weekend

-father on vacation

- sister at friends, parents at Christmas Part

- parents out - rapist knew family habits and work hours

- Husband in Bay Area

- husband on business trip

- husband just left for work

- separated, son visiting father

- Parents away for weekend

- knew her purse was in car

- knew where garage door opener was located

- Outside lights on timer. Intruder knew how to turn them off.

- Husband started night shift only two days previous to attack.

- Suspect stated he'd seen her at Mather Officer's Club, knew her husband was a captain in the Air Force.

-Multiple Intelligence Gathering - This characteristic is inferred from the suspect's habit of returning repeatedly to the same vicinity. It seems logical that he would gather the maximum amount of information at one time rather than by a series of individual operations.

It just blows my mind- especially for someone his age to be so smart and driven, that he is outwitting everyone.

The one that really stands out to me above is the statement that he'd seen her at the Mather Officer's Club and knew her husband was a captain in the Air Force. I've toyed around with the military idea before, but I wanted to get your opinions on it based off this statement.

I also thought the following was rather interesting:

-Real Estate Operations - In one case there were two nearby homes for sale. This was also true in the Stockton incident. In another incident, a Century 21 was directly opposite the victim's house. A neighbor of another victim was showing his own home for sale. About two weeks prior to the attack, a prospective purchaser inspected the house. He purportredly was transferring from Las Vegas to McClellan AFB. He is described as being in his 20's, thin, blond, with "short" haircut and blue eyes. Two signs from Kastaros REalty were in the backyard of another victim. It appears the house had been shown earlier. The house of another victim had previously been owned by (redacted) who related that while the house was in process of being put on the market, a very unusual realtor called. According to Mrs. (redacted) he paid no attention to the interior of the house, but inspected the south and west exteriors. He asked her where her husband worked and why her daughter wasn't at home. He is described as extremely well-dressed, light brown hair, darker complexion and medium frame. In the vicinity of another victim, there were several newly constructed and unsold homes. There was a vacant residence (condominium) for lease near another victim's home. The garage window at this location was open. Yet another victim had recently moved into their house, which still bore a "SOLD, Aim Realty" sign at the time of the attack. A neighbor of another victim was was marketing her home through Jones, Brand & Hullin under a multiple listing plan. Another victim's home had just been sold and the victim was planning to join her husband in the Bay Area, where he had already moved. A new home was being constructed next to the home of yet another victim.

Another thing that come to mind is that during his VR days, Snelling reports in May of 1974, that he chased someone off. Then in the Summer of 1975 he chased someone off again. Then in Sept 1975, another house close to snelling was ransacked and a picture of Snelling's daughter and her friend (I'm guessing) were taken from the home. Then later in the week, VR tries to kidnap snelling's daughter and Snelling is killed. If have my facts straight, to me this shows that someone had an obsession with Snelling's 15 year old daughter. VR probably saw her at school, would follow her-knew her friends were, and tried to kidnap her. How could no one notice him/Identify him during and after all of his stalking? Especially after McGowan's description? I wonder whether he tried to hit on Snelling's daughter and she wouldn't give him the time of day-which is what started his rage of trying to possess women that were out of his league and therefore he would want to prove to them and himself that he could have them in one way or another.
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By lawstudent1
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3 years ago
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Ransacker
Where did he plan on taking Beth?...
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By JWBTXS
Member
3 years ago
337 Posts
Re: Ransacker
Posted By: JWBTXS
Where did he plan on taking Beth?...
Hi JWB--

I always had the suspicion that Ms. Snelling was a special "project" for him. My suspicion entails the idea that his plan was to kidnap her, get her out of the residence, and take her somewhere--that somewhere being one of the drainage canals running through the neighborhood. Quite a few items appear with a degree of consistency--the canals being one of those items. As mentioned in articles, in several early EAR cases in Sacramento, victims were dragged from their residences into drainage canals. As an observer, I credit him for that--it provides a quiet locale, and it would be difficult for anybody to see him there.

AE7
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By AngelEyes7
Member
3 years ago
247 Posts
Drainage/irrigation canals.
For those of you who don't know, the Central Valley was the prime source of fresh veggies, nuts, tree fruit, and just about any farm product you could name. Most of the people who came West during the gold rush were farmers and when they didn't strike it rich in the gold fields they returned to farming.. Toss into the mix the European immigrants around 1900 and the folks who came West during the dust bowl in the 30's. Mix 'em all up and you have a lot of farmers, a lot of land, and no rain in the summertime. Hence irrigation ditches everywhere. Cities grew up around them. Some were filled in but most remain as they were a hundred years ago. A lot of floodproofing has been done and the water projects in California rival anything the ancient Romans could even consider.
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By f1guyus
Member
3 years ago
1265 Posts
Snelling Prowler
Does anyone have documentation related to the two instances in which Snelling chased away a prowler? I'm trying to determine if he reported these as they happened, or if it was realized in hindsight following his murder.
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By ZForce
Member
2 years ago
503 Posts
How Could No One Notice/Suspect Him?

In nature predators are masters of concealment. It is well documented that serial offenders conceal themselves behind a 'bland mask of normality'. He is perhaps in addition to his above average intelligence, exceptionally attractive in a physical way that would enhance the mask of normality that he hides behind. From reading 'Sudden Terror', I came away with the perception that the crimes were more about 'him' than his victims. He seemed to be trying to get validation of his penis, his sexuality through rape, terror and torture. Most of the victims were too terrified of their circumstances to realize that their attacker had very serious fears and insecurities concerning his penis. This method of self validating is doomed to failure and probably sometime down the line, the pain of both failure and extreme self-loathing forced his hand in another way: suicide. Only pure speculation; otherwise he is no Dennis Rader with the need to goad LE and The Media, risking capture. This is a truly fascinating case and I hope for closure through the efforts of those sincere members on this board, and for all victims of all violent crime. Another thought comes to mind: these criminals are more often less interesting than their crimes and in the end are revealed as the 'losers' they really are.
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By EarthDogBonzo3
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2 years ago
13 Posts
Re: How Could No One Notice/Suspect Him?
Posted By: EarthDogBonzo3

In nature predators are masters of concealment. It is well documented that serial offenders conceal themselves behind a 'bland mask of normality'. He is perhaps in addition to his above average intelligence, exceptionally attractive in a physical way that would enhance the mask of normality that he hides behind. From reading 'Sudden Terror', I came away with the perception that the crimes were more about 'him' than his victims. He seemed to be trying to get validation of his penis, his sexuality through rape, terror and torture. Most of the victims were too terrified of their circumstances to realize that their attacker had very serious fears and insecurities concerning his penis. This method of self validating is doomed to failure and probably sometime down the line, the pain of both failure and extreme self-loathing forced his hand in another way: suicide. Only pure speculation; otherwise he is no Dennis Rader with the need to goad LE and The Media, risking capture. This is a truly fascinating case and I hope for closure through the efforts of those sincere members on this board, and for all victims of all violent crime. Another thought comes to mind: these criminals are more often less interesting than their crimes and in the end are revealed as the 'losers' they really are.
I like your perception of EAR, I have the a slightly alternate view , I have come away feeling (& I suspect) that there was also an undercurrent of deeply ingrained narcissism in EAR, his crimes and his persona, . Suicide is an interesting thought, I suspect EAR may commit suicide if he is surrounded or about to be captured or he might go out in a hail of bullets. The lengths he went to evade and avoid capture sound like someone who had plans and a "lot" at stake................whatever the case I have a funny feeling this guy is alive , this guy was no garden variety psychopath he was a few notches above your last line could turn out to be true if indeed we ever found out who is/was...........
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By DanCartell
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2 years ago
683 Posts
Goading the media
EAR did goad the media - and victims - but knew when to quit whilst ahead.
I bet when he read about DNA, the already slowed-down EAR decided to quit for good.IMHO the chances are that EAR is still alive - after all he would only be 55 or 60 at the present time.
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By SammyT
Member
2 years ago
433 Posts
Re: Snelling Prowler
Posted By: ZForce
Does anyone have documentation related to the two instances in which Snelling chased away a prowler? I'm trying to determine if he reported these as they happened, or if it was realized in hindsight following his murder.
ZForce: I just sent you an email regarding this event. 2/10/75 Snelling filed a report regarding a prowler. He had chased the prowler away at 10:00 on Wednesday, 2/5/75. On 2/2/75, a neighbor of his had been hit by the VR where the VR took 20 books of stamps, a woman's purse, some 22 caliber shells, and the VR left a bottle of Jergen's lotion. Thre were smears found on the glass of a sliding door.
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By dengas
Member
2 years ago
966 Posts
Re: How could no one ever notice/suspect him?
That bottle of Jergen's lotion makes another case for VR being EAR/ONS.
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By wintergirl
Member
2 years ago
40 Posts
to ons...
read above post
Donna was murdered 12/26/75. Six months later EAR begins his terror as EAR
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By dengas
Member
2 years ago
966 Posts

[Drifter]

Learned behavior

If this guy rolled out solo I'd be totally surprised. He had to have someone showing him what and what not to do, even if they were behind bars. He picked this behavior up somewhere.IWhatever happend to the Boren Bros.
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By JWBTXS
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3 years ago
335 Posts

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Re: Learned behavior
JWBTX,
I agree. I also agree with AE7 when he stated that this was one of the most savy criminals. Especially given his guesstimated age. Where does one come up with an idea for the dish trick? This seems like something that you would see on the show "Criminal Minds"-something that Hollywood writers would dream up. If EAR/ONS is the VR (which I believe him to be) and he was described by Det. McGowan as being just a kid, then wow. I can't imagine someone this young and beginning their criminal career with such bold and audacious acts.Where did he learn this stuff? Furthermore, It's one thing to go in with a well detailed plan, and it's another to act out the plan to near perfection while under pressure-especially at such a young age. What kind of kid has the guts to pull stuff like this off? If you read some of the early accounts of the VR cases, there are a few instances where he acted sloppy- but he learned from those mistakes. What's interesting though is how quickly he learned and what he learned.
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By lawstudent1
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3 years ago
316 Posts
JWB & LS1: Youth, Mistakes, and Determination
Posted By: lawstudent1
JWBTX,
I agree. I also agree with AE7 when he stated that this was one of the most savy criminals. Especially given his guesstimated age. Where does one come up with an idea for the dish trick? This seems like something that you would see on the show "Criminal Minds"-something that Hollywood writers would dream up. If EAR/ONS is the VR (which I believe him to be) and he was described by Det. McGowan as being just a kid, then wow. I can't imagine someone this young and beginning their criminal career with such bold and audacious acts.Where did he learn this stuff? Furthermore, It's one thing to go in with a well detailed plan, and it's another to act out the plan to near perfection while under pressure-especially at such a young age. What kind of kid has the guts to pull stuff like this off? If you read some of the early accounts of the VR cases, there are a few instances where he acted sloppy- but he learned from those mistakes. What's interesting though is how quickly he learned and what he learned.
In my view, there is too much evidence available that points in the direction of the suspect starting off at a very young age. I had my doubts like others do--I would ask myself: what kind of kid is this brazen, this aggressive, and this fearless to charge ahead with these kinds of crimes? What finally convinced me more than anything else was Detective William McGowan's account of the VR; specifically, the shooting incident of 10 December 1975. In Det. McGowan's own words, the suspect "was just a kid." If this account is paired with the multiple accounts of victims attacked during the EAR phase--in particular, the early EAR cases--then it's very difficult to dismiss the theory that the suspect began at a young age. Further, if one believes him to have begun at a young age, one might also be inclined to believe that the same suspect who is EAR/ONS is, in fact, the VR--and like you LS, I believe the suspect to be all three.

I'm still uncertain on whether I believe him to be military, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was discovered he came from a military family, or perhaps, he had a father who was in the military. Perhaps this was where he received his firearm training. If I remember correctly, there was a discussion on the old discussion board in which A76 wrote in detail of the events surrounding the McGowan shooting. I distinctly remember A76 reporting that in McGowan's account, the suspect was caught red-handed in the act. McGowan initiated foot pursuit from the garage, and after McGowan fired a warning shot into the ground, the suspect stopped, and began screeching in a high-pitched voice, "please don't shoot me!" Instantly, he whirled around, snapping off a shot at McGowan. What makes this intriguing is McGowan's analysis: the way he fired, the way he whipped about indicated to him that this suspect had some sort of training in tactics. I'm inclined to think that he was taught such tactics by a military father, or some other male figure in his life with such training. Of course, there is also the possibility that he was a self-motivated learner. I picture our suspect as a person who was very eager and willing to learn new techniques: he probably read books that focused on police methodology and military tactics; he probably watched television programs dealing with the aforementioned; and I'd be willing to wager that, more than anything else, he simply learned through trial & error. Yes, he made mistakes--even well into the ONS phase of his career--but, luck aside, his trademark savvy (detail, planning, etc.) managed to keep him a step ahead of law enforcement. Above all else, this suspect was a very determined individual, and determination can take a person a long, long way--and he sure seemed hellbent on mastering his chosen craft.

One other thought I should mention: everybody always discusses the military angle, and while it's worth delving into, I wonder if it was more likely that he was maybe the son of a police officer. I believe it was Carol Daly who said that this guy "always seemed to know what we were going to do next."

AE7
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By AngelEyes7
Member
3 years ago
247 Posts
Here's a thought
We had a house burglar in our neighborhood a few years back. He got into only one house while the people were on an extended vacation. He went repeatedly and was taking small items like table linens and ceramics. A neighbor caught him one day going into the house and it turned out he was the son of a local police officer. We figured he had been listening to a how-too class at the dinner table since he was a little kid. Just a thought. Oh, he had been giving the stolen stuff to a young lady and the owners got almost all of it back.
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By f1guyus
Member
3 years ago
1283 Posts
Re: Here's a thought
Posted By: f1guyus
We had a house burglar in our neighborhood a few years back. He got into only one house while the people were on an extended vacation. He went repeatedly and was taking small items like table linens and ceramics. A neighbor caught him one day going into the house and it turned out he was the son of a local police officer. We figured he had been listening to a how-too class at the dinner table since he was a little kid. Just a thought. Oh, he had been giving the stolen stuff to a young lady and the owners got almost all of it back.
Your timing is impeccable, F1--I'm glad you chimed in on this!

What you just wrote keeps me wondering: did the little VR get his start like this by listening to Daddy's cop-on-the-beat stories?

AE7
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By AngelEyes7
Member
3 years ago
247 Posts
And another thing
Some of the police and some posters on this board are sometimes dismissive of the EAR's intelligence. That's a mistake in my opinion. It's 35+ years since the VR started his spree and nobody knows who he is. Or if they do they're not talking. BTW AE7 you took the words right off my keyboard.
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By f1guyus
Member
3 years ago
1283 Posts
Re: And another thing
Posted By: f1guyus
Some of the police and some posters on this board are sometimes dismissive of the EAR's intelligence. That's a mistake in my opinion. It's 35+ years since the VR started his spree and nobody knows who he is. Or if they do they're not talking. BTW AE7 you took the words right off my keyboard.
Agreed, F1. He made his share of mistakes, but he was exceptional in the sense that he learned from his mistakes, and again, I have to emphasize it: I haven't seen a serial offender as anal about detail and planning as he was. I also believe that his prolific nature rewarded him with good instincts about improvisation--he certainly could improvise when he had to.

I don't even want to think about somebody being out there who knows his identity and isn't talking. That just sent chills down my spine.

Again, I'm glad you wrote your initial post on the wannabe VR in your neighborhood. Good thoughts on your part, F1.

AE7
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By AngelEyes7
Member
3 years ago
247 Posts
A.e.7
Way to post, Carol Daly did say that, I wished she'd say more, if anyone knows something.. ,she's heard it all, that's one tough woman.
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By JWBTXS
Member
3 years ago
335 Posts
Former LE Officers Commentary
Posted By: JWBTXS
Way to post, Carol Daly did say that, I wished she'd say more, if anyone knows something.. ,she's heard it all, that's one tough woman.
Hi JWB--

I know what you mean--I wish she'd say some more as well. Your mentioning of Carol Daly reminded me: I'm hoping that former Contra Costa County Sheriff's Department Deputy Larry Crompton is still planning on releasing his book on EAR/ONS.

AE7
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By AngelEyes7
Member
3 years ago
247 Posts
Crompton
I'd like to read that book, what's he doing now? How about Carol Daily?
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By JWBTXS
Member
3 years ago
335 Posts
Re: Crompton
Hi JWB--

As far as I know, the book isn't in print yet. I hope, however, that he is enjoying his retirement--likewise the same with Ms. Daly.

AE7
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By AngelEyes7
Member
3 years ago
247 Posts
I sure hope Larry is still working on the book
"" ""
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By f1guyus
Member
3 years ago
1283 Posts
Larry Crompton
I can only guess that everyone is awaiting Larry's book. I know I am. g
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By guessting
Member
3 years ago
2043 Posts
Re: Larry Crompton
Posted By: guessting
I can only guess that everyone is awaiting Larry's book. I know I am. g
Hi G--

When that book finally arrives, it's going to be like my favorite albums and films: it will be coming home the day of its release. I do hope it will be arriving soon.

AE7
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By AngelEyes7
Member
3 years ago
247 Posts
Re: Re: Larry Crompton
Posted By: AngelEyes7
Posted By: guessting
I can only guess that everyone is awaiting Larry's book. I know I am. g
Hi G--

When that book finally arrives, it's going to be like my favorite albums and films: it will be coming home the day of its release. I do hope it will be arriving soon.

AE7
I do to..I believe it will have some of the missing pieces in it. Things that may help identify this animal. g
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By guessting
Member
3 years ago
2043 Posts
Hope he has a good editor and publisher.
I know some may feel differently and have personal reasons for so feeling and doing but it's important this guy gets caught. Somewhere out there there's a guy who needs to know that "The Wheels of Justice Grind Slow But Exceeding Fine." or as the French say "Il décourage les autres" It discourages the others.
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By f1guyus
Member
3 years ago
1283 Posts

[Drifter]

Light Bulb

Recently, someone was mentioning how the postal service is run. This person said basically that alot of postal workers are prior military. This person experience is that the post office is run by people who are former military. An understanding of how they can go postal.

Question??? Has anyone entertained the thought that the ONS could have been a postal worker?





MiraclesInnocent
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By Miracles
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2 years ago
133 Posts

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Re: Light Bulb
This may explain how EAR/ONS was able to stalk his victims without being noticed. It could explain his lack of fear towards dogs. Nevertheless, the tracker dogs would have been able to pick up more of his scent in the area if he was the postman for the area. They would have run to more areas of the neighbourhood instead of just going to the area where EAR/ONS departed in his vehicle.
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By Peterlee
Member
2 years ago
319 Posts
I still think
I still think the bloodhound that got so excited at EAR's scent should have gone with LE when they talked to potential suspects. And there were reports at the time that LE investigated all the people who were routinely in the neighborhoods.
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By f1guyus
Member
2 years ago
1270 Posts
Lots of good brain storming going on
At first I thought you had something there, Miracles. It would be the perfect way to cover the neighborhood and not be noticed. But then Peterlee had a good point about the scent and how the dogs followed it to where a parked car would have been a street or two away. Also, he jumped around neighborhood to neighborhood. I liked F1's idea of using the dog while interviewing. I suppose it's too late for that. This many years later if the jacket or ski mask or anything else EAR/ONS left behind was kept in an evidence bag, I doubt there would be any scent left, right?
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By Sandia
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2 years ago
1369 Posts
Postal
If he was postal, he'd walk awhile; then he'd board his Jeep, move down the street, leaving the scent to disappear again.
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By ladyofthelake
Member
2 years ago
209 Posts
Postal
Postal delivery may have been managed differently back in the 70's and 80's. For years I always had the same delivery person. Now, I have a different person throughout the week. What if they change their routes. That could throw off the scent too. We will not know now. It just occurred to me he could have been a postman. Thanks for the input.
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By Miracles
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2 years ago
133 Posts
Let Me Put It This Way
If the Sac Sheriffs and the Sac PD didn't investigate everybody who had reason to be in the victims neighborhoods by virtue of employment what did we pay them to do? And why?
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By f1guyus
Member
2 years ago
1270 Posts
The Question of Ear/ONS's Profession
Last night I was thinking about Port's excellent chart detailing the various connections between murder victims and the medical field, the military, real estate, etc.

An idea that crossed my mind (and I don't know if it has been put forward before if so I apologize for the redundancy if it has) relates to the homes for sale in the areas of the various crime scenes. Specifically, I wonder if it was ever investigated whether a common moving company may have helped at least some of these people move out of their homes (I am thinking more of the Dana Point and the Ventura crime scenes). I was thinking if he did enter these neighborhoods in this fashion to begin with he very well could have slipped under the radar (i.e. he would only have been there once, it would have had nothing to do with the victims, it could have been months before the actual crime, etc).

I am not thinking that this was how he selected victims but more how he might have selected some of the neighborhoods.

Just a thought. I find myself stuck on the geography of the case.

HJ2
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By hubertj2
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2 years ago
120 Posts
Re: Light Bulb

A very good observation. A moving company employee. I don't think we ever looked at that before.
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Edited by Peterlee, 2 years ago
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By Peterlee
Member
2 years ago
319 Posts

[Drifter]

Lodi, CA - Killing Fields of the EAR/ONS

Theodore John Kaczynski, also known as the Unabomber, has been mentioned by a few, namely AK Wilks, as an ONS suspect, as well as a suspect in numerous other American crimes, including the Zodiac killings. California investigators consider him an EAR/ONS suspect and are moving to obtain his DNA - which has never been drawn from his body since his apprehension.

Theodore John Kaczynski was a white male with blue eyes and blond hair, around 5'10", 150-175lbs, and had a somewhat higher-than-average pitched voice. He frequently wore military-style clothing. He was an armed predatory arsonist and burglar, who targeted industrial equipment and habitations, which he ransacked (just as the Visalia Ransacker did). He was a peeper on love-making couples, brutally tortured and abused canines, and wrote that he had sexual fantasies involving tying up women, raping them in front of their husbands, and nearly brought himself to mutilate the face of a woman (his girlfriend) - all of which is thoroughly consistent with EAR/ONS and Visalia ransacker activity. Ted Kaczynski did kill by bomb however he also shot at least one man (a miner) with a .30-30 rifle. Ted Kaczynski was more than capable of killing with a hands on approach, despite the beliefs of some.

Both Ted Kaczynski and the EAR were in comparable (excellent) physical condition.

The city of Lodi lies just south of Sacramento. Since 1971, it is has been the host of a series of mysterious ransackings, attempted bombings, arsons - and at least two unsolved bludgeoning deaths, all consistent with the activities of the Visalia Ransacker/EAR/ONS, as well as to some degree Ted Kaczynski, who as was previously mentioned, was a serial arsonist and burglar - and of course a serial bomber. These arsons, bludgeoning-deaths, burglaries and bombings were, in my opinion, the actions of a repeat, serial offender. Investigators, amateur and professional, must look high and low for information regarding these offenses, because it is the highest suspicion of the author that these cases are, indeed, the work of the EAR/ONS.

Many have speculated as to why the EAR/ONS stopped killing in 1986. Some believe he was incarcerated at this time, others believe he could have committed suicide or was killed, or incapacitated by injury or old age. However, I believe he was still killing at least as late as 1991. We know that he was not incarcerated at this time, because he was still taunting his previous victims by phone. After reading the following documentation of the 1971-199X crime spree in Lodi, CA, I hope you will come to realize the kind of investigation it so urgently warrants. The following is not an official list all of the potential crimes related. It is a collection of crimes in the Lodi area that could be linked to either the EAR/ONS or Ted Kaczynski (who I believe are one in the same).

1971 - Lodi Arsonist torches multiple CARS, no conviction ever made. news.google.com/newspapers?id=esIzAAAAIBAJ&sjid=nzIHAAAAIBAJ&pg=1672,765263&dq=lodi+arson

1973, charges dropped in arson of Lodi area labor camp, no conviction ever made.

news.google.com/newspapersid=OGwzAAAAIBAJ&sjid=ITIHAAAAIBAJ&pg=5381,5467280&dq=lodi+ars

1974 - victim of Lodi fire dies. No conviction is ever made.

news.google.com/newspapers?id=vOEzAAAAIBAJ&sjid=iTIHAAAAIBAJ&pg=4086,3678983&dq=lodi+arso

1974 - Woolbridge High School is severely ransacked. 1974 is the year the Visalia ransacker began operating. No conviction is ever made.

news.google.com/newspapers?id=XRczAAAAIBAJ&sjid=czIHAAAAIBAJ&pg=5077,2956887&dq=sacrame

1974 - same year of the Woolbridge High School ransacking, Tokay High School is set on fire - twice on different occasions. No conviction is ever made, despite increasing rewards for information leading to arrest of arsonists.

news.google.com/newspapers?id=xXwzAAAAIBAJ&sjid=KTIHAAAAIBAJ&pg=6315,2287367&dq=lodi+ars

1976 - Youth suspected in barn fire released. No conviction ever made.

news.google.com/newspapers?id=Z-gzAAAAIBAJ&sjid=3jIHAAAAIBAJ&pg=2093,1125899&dq=lodi+arson&hl=en

July 5th, 1978 - on the anniversary of the first Zodiac killings, a warehouse is torched by arsonists. The arson causes more than a quarter million dollars in damages. This fire went down in Lodi, CA history and still remains a mystery to this day. Note that the building was near railroad tracks and housed equipment from Southern Pacific and other train companies. A Southern Pacific train was derailed near Goleta with a concrete and WOOD barricade the first week of the 1979 Goleta murders. There was an ONS style bludgeoning death in the late 70s in Lodi, CA.

Numerous links regarding the warehouse arson, including a modern one

news.google.com/newspapers?id=OeAzAAAAIBAJ&sjid=bDIHAAAAIBAJ&pg=3778,5257094&dq=lodi+ars

news.google.com/newspapers?id=QeAzAAAAIBAJ&sjid=bDIHAAAAIBAJ&pg=6342,6345498&dq=lodi+ars

news.google.com/newspapers?id=OuAzAAAAIBAJ&sjid=bDIHAAAAIBAJ&pg=3917,5494965&dq=lodi+ars

www.lodinews.com/articles/2008/06/17/news/3_firefolo_080617.txt

Read the following pages of the newspaper links above, find the "Fire Calls" section. There were dozens of arsons in Lodi continuing in to the late 1970s, many of which the locations had "WOOD" and "NATURE" themes, something Kaczynski religiously used as a clue in his bombing spree.

Finally, in 1979, the Lodi News-Sentinel acknowledges the occurrence of nearly a decade's worth of mysterious arsons and vandalism, all of which are no doubt the work of a serial, repeat offender. The arsonist/ransacker attacks public schools, cars, warehouses and equipment, all of which is consistent with TJK and his beliefs/desired targets.

news.google.com/newspapers?id=En4zAAAAIBAJ&sjid=OTIHAAAAIBAJ&pg=4645,2841761&dq=lodi+ars

www.google.com/archivesearch?q=lodi+arson&as_ldate=1970&as_hdate=1979&sugg=d&scoring=a&sa

Other arson crimes in Lodi, CA
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Edited by Cimmerian10, 3 years ago
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By Cimmerian10
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3 years ago
1000 Posts

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Immortalization??
It sounds as though you are looking for some sort of glory for your contributions. I don't have to be literate to understand the likes of you. I will see you at home plate. G
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By guessting
Member
3 years ago
2045 Posts
Fact!
Lodi is not the killing fields of EARONS. That is a fact! No matter how much you copy and paste your facts. Lodi is not the killing field of EARONS. Cannot change that fact no matter how hard you try.
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By guessting
Member
3 years ago
2045 Posts
Re: Lodi, CA - Killing Fields of the EAR/ONS

Right, there is certainly no reason to suspect that there was ever any EAR/ONS activity in Lodi. Why? Guessting said there wasn't. Guessting has got the facts. And by facts, he means his completely irrational and prejudiced opinion.
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Edited by Cimmerian10, 3 years ago
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By Cimmerian10
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3 years ago
1000 Posts
He is a she..

So can you tell me where these earons killings took place and where they are placed in the confirmed LE cases? Or are they a figment of your imagination? Your beginning to sound like an old friend of mine. g
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Edited by guessting, 3 years ago
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By guessting
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3 years ago
2045 Posts
Re: Lodi, CA - Killing Fields of the EAR/ONS
G, if you read the thread you will note that there have been at least two unsolved bludgeoning deaths, involving rape and bondage, and one which was very peculiar, that is the murder of Martha Menzel. Neither of the cases were ever solved. Lodi has been riddled with TJK activity, from dog poisoning and arson to complex bombings to Zodiac (TJK) date symbolism - particularly a motif of the dates January 5th, July 5th (Zodiac related), and June 5. There's a lot more, basically just read the thread.
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By Cimmerian10
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3 years ago
1000 Posts
Unsolved Homicides
We can speculate until we are blue in the face regarding these cases. I believe there are unsolved cases. There are no facts here that make these EARONS cases. Unsolved does not make it so. Starting a thread with "Killing Fields of EARONS does not make them his crimes. You have failed to prove anything in my opinion. Have you ever spoke with LE familiar with all these cases? I admit I breeze by your posts because most are not relevant to my search. So forgive me if I do not remember everything about them. The only thing that matters to me is the capture and or identification of EARONS. It is as easy as that for me. g
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By guessting
Member
3 years ago
2045 Posts
Re: Lodi, CA - Killing Fields of the EAR/ONS
"I can speculate until I'm blue in the face"...? What do you propose anyone should do on these forums? These forums exist solely for the collection and observation of data. When I compile various cases and describe them here I am inviting others to draw conclusions from it and try to either rule it in or rule it out. I have made my own conclusions, I have my own reservations and I don't claim I have proven anything, I merely suggest it is highly likely. There are no facts that make the Visalia Ransacker cases related to EAR/ONS, but it can be reasonably concluded that the cases are linked.
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By Cimmerian10
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3 years ago
1000 Posts
Re: Lodi, CA - Killing Fields of the EAR/ONS

news.google.com/newspapers?id=NZUzAAAAIBAJ&sjid=UjIHAAAAIBAJ&pg=7378,3244309&dq=boycott-the-lodi-news&hl=en

In 1993 a vandal glued posters to 30 different newspaper racks in Lodi, CA which read "Boycott the Lodi-News Sentinel because they cannot report correctly". As I mentioned previously, the Lodi-News Sentinel and California investigators apparently missed the connections between numerous Southern/Union Pacific arson attacks, car bombings, packing facility arsons and one arson near Martha Menzel's home, just nineteen days after she was murdered. The railroad/packing facility arsons and the car bombings have something in peculiar, they all occurred on the FIFTH DATE of the months that start with the letter J, January, June and July, and the same site had been targeted at least twice dating back to the late seventies. Read this link and take note of all of the dates of the crimes.

news.google.com/newspapers?id=x-gzAAAAIBAJ&sjid=yjIHAAAAIBAJ&pg=5960,146617&dq=lodi+unsolved+arson&hl=en
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Edited by Cimmerian10, 3 years ago
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By Cimmerian10
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3 years ago
1000 Posts
Re: Lodi, CA - Killing Fields of the EAR/ONS

"Now that we conclude the discussion of the some 15+ unsolved arson cases in Lodi, CA, we move on to the excessive burglaries, burglary-arsons, bomb plantings and at least two ONS style bludgeoning deaths as late as the early 90s.

1991, around a decade after the acknowledgment of mysterious unsolved ransackings and arsons, the authorities reveal these crimes, among others, have only steadily increased. As of 1992, there were a number of unsolved murders in Lodi, CA - at least two of which were ONS style bludgeoning deaths, one occurring in the late 70s, the other in 1991. Lodi was home to a number of serial killings from the late 70s in to the 90s.



news.google.com/newspapers?nid=2245&dat=19920103&id=x-gzAAAAIBAJ&sjid=yjIHAAAAIBAJ&pg=5960,146617



January 5th, 1991 - Another arson fire targeting a Southern Pacific railroad line. Multiple fires set. The crime goes unsolved.

April 16th, 1991 - Arson-burglary of a habitation. The crime is never solved.



May 1st, 1991 - Martha Menzel is bludgeoned to death in her E. Locust Street home. The crime remains unsolved to this day.



May 20th, 1991- A home is broken in to and set alight on E. Locust Street, just feet from Martha Menzel's home and a few weeks after her murder.

May 22nd, 1991 - A shipping truck is set alight just two days after the previous arson. Suspect never caught, exact same crime Kaczynski was known to commit.

JUNE 5th, 1991 - A HOMEMADE BOMB IS FOUND INSIDE A TRUCK. The bomb included a gasoline can - identical to that kind of bombs that Kacyznski constructed and used, and identical to the bomb used to injure Judi Bari in northern California in the early 90s - a crime which Ted K. is definitely guilty of.



JULY 5th, 1991 - Another Southern Pacific railroad facility is torched. Hundreds of thousands of dollars in damage. Note the recurring June/July 5th recurring date, and similar target.

Note other arsons.

Attempted car bombings in Lodi, CA.

news.google.com/newspapers?nid=2245&dat=19910504&id=u5szAAAAIBAJ&sjid=wTIHAAAAIBAJ&pg=3

Note the intricacy of the bomb and how it was designed to be ignited with the car was started. Also note the story is listed just next to the confirmed autopsy of Martha Menzel, bludgeoned to death in her own home."

I just came across this subject post. This is information that ties into my belief about the ONS working for the Santa Fe Railroad. Was arson one of his crimes as well? Is that why he left the matches?
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By ONSTracker
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4 months ago
37 Posts

[Drifter]

Logical Deduction & Reasoning

Repoman,

In another thread you said: It just seems to me that you are trying to achieve a level of acuracy and precision that just isn't possible. If history is any guide not every piece of information in the above scenario is correct. People miss state things, officer's misunderstand witnesses etc.

I will allow you to come to your own conclusions regarding the enhanced composite suspect.

If the shots fired call came in a 9:13pm (2/2/78) and the ambulance and police were called immediately after the shooting. (Remember that a bullet smashed through the patio door of the people who called the police).

The first officer arrived on the scene at 9:16pm. The ambulance had already arrived.

You determine for yourself how long it took for both the police and ambulance to have been called in order for dispatchers to broadcast the "shots fired" call at 9:13pm.

If the ambulance was already on the scene when the first officer arrived at 9:16pm, how much time did that give the shooter of the Maggiores to be seen at Las Casas Way and Palo Vista?

After you have determined that, then determine how anyone could run from the crime scene on La Alegria to Capitales, west to West La Loma, south on West La Loma to the apartment complex near Folsom Blvd., reverse his direction, be seen by a witness as he travelled east on Capitales, north on La Loma (or east on Malaga) to be seen running northeast on Las Casas Way all the way to Palo Vista all before the ambulance arrived.

It is impossible in my estimation and I will pay anyone who can make that run within the 4 minute window (9:11pm to 9:15pm). If for whatever reason you think that someone could travel that distance within 4 minutes, then one would still have to explain how he was able to be on Las Casas Way (and Palo Vista) before the ambulance was heard and still be on West La Loma after the ambulance was seen driving past the witness who saw the enhanced composite suspect still on West La Loma.

Please explain how any of this is possible under any circumstance.

Bumping forward...


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Edited by Archangel76, 2 years ago
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By Archangel76
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2 years ago
2159 Posts

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More Logical Deduction & Reasoning

Out of the 3 possible sources of the dragon patch, the 349th AMW, the 485th EIG or the 320th SPS, which one would you investigate first? The 320th SPS that worked out of the same office as Sgt. Maggiore? The 320th SPS which was implicated in a $300 million heroin trafficking operation in 1976? The 320th SPS which had several airmen arrested and convicted on various drug charges in 1979 and an undercover airman had to be transferred out "for his own safety" before the arrests were made. Or would you look at the 485th or the 349th first?

This is not to say that any of these units were involved in the Maggiore murders but logically, where would you begin your investigation to begin excluding possibilities? Where would you begin looking for the EAR if he was an airman stationed at Mather and responsible for the Maggiore murders? 320th and 323rd? Or the 349th or 485th?
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Edited by Archangel76, 2 years ago
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By Archangel76
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2 years ago
2159 Posts
Ambulance Response Time

How does a ambulance respond to the scene of a shooting in under three minutes? It would take a minute or two just to pick up the phone, dial 911, and convey the information to the operator. Then the operator would have to dispatch the ambulance. Then the ambulance driver would have to walk some distance, get in the ambulance, start the ambulance, then drive some distance to the scene of the shooting. I have to tell you that is an amazing repsonse time. It would be great if a ambulance could really get to a victim within three minutes of a shooting...in reality even today with computerized dispatch and GPS most people know that it is quicker to drive the victim to the nearest ER or fire station than to wait for a ambulance. Three minutes from gunshot to ambulance on the scene?
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Edited by Repoman, 2 years ago
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By Repoman
Member
2 years ago
1487 Posts
The Truth About Ambulance Response Times
From a recent article:
"The Los Angeles Fire Department sent a nearby fire engine and an ambulance, which arrived at the airport in six and seven minutes, respectively. Officially, their response time was quick enough to save Redyk.In truth, almost half an hour passed before rescuers actually reached Redyk. He died.This official deception is not unusual. Los Angeles is one of many cities that routinely lie to themselves about their true response times to medical emergencies. The result is needless deaths.There is no nationwide standard for measuring emergency response times. A USA TODAY study of the 50 biggest U.S. cities found that most report only the slice of the response that looks most favorable: the time it takes for the emergency crew to drive to the scene. On many emergency runs, that is just a fraction of the time that passes between the call for help and the arrival of rescuers."
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By Repoman
Member
2 years ago
1487 Posts
Re: Logical Deduction & Reasoning

The nearest major civilian medical centers are several miles away and across the American river. Unless an ambulance just happened to be cruising in the Rancho Cordova area and got a radio call I have trouble believing they arrived 3 minutes after the caller hung up the phone. Not trying to start a flame war, that's just my humble impression.
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Edited by Cimmerian10, 2 years ago
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By Cimmerian10
Member
2 years ago
1000 Posts
When Were The Maggiore's Shot?
Your website says 9:00 P.M.
9:00 plus or minus how much?By who's watch? I am not arguing for the sake of arguing, I am only trying to make the point that the information that you are working off of is not as precise as it would need to be to make the conclusions that you are making. I wish it were but it just isn't. In all probability your time line is not as tight as you make it out to be. And wasn't the DKK known for changing direction and doubling back when making his escapes? I know a PI that has been on this case a long time told me that at Officer Mcgowen's shooting the VR did exactly that.
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By Repoman
Member
2 years ago
1487 Posts
Re: Logical Deduction & Reasoning

Arch,
You said:"After you have determined that, then determine how anyone could run from the crime scene on La Alegria to Capitales, west to West La Loma, south on West La Loma to the apartment complex near Folsom Blvd., reverse his direction, be seen by a witness as he travelled east on Capitales, north on La Loma (or east on Malaga) to be seen running northeast on Las Casas Way all the way to Palo Vista all before the ambulance arrived."

From 10165 La Alegria to 2080 W La Loma Dr. = .3 miles. From 2080 W La Loms Dr. to Las Casas = .6 miles. Total distance .9 miles. This distance could be covered on foot in 6- 8 minutes. I am sorry, considering the considerable variability of eye witness accounts I just do not see how you feel that it is impossible for one person to have covered these distances. You can study that time line all you want it still doesn't prove that one guy didn't change direction and flee towards Las Casas. Six to eight minutes is awfully close to the four minutes in your time line. Especially when you consider the time it takes to explain the Who, What & Where to a 911 operator and the time for this operator to convey this information to a dispatcher.
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Edited by Repoman, 2 years ago
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By Repoman
Member
2 years ago
1487 Posts
Attention to Detail
Repoman,

As usual, you have not addressed ALL of the information that I graciously provided you with. Suspect #3 was still seen on West La Loma by a 2nd witness AFTER the ambulance arrived. So how can Suspect #3 be way over on Las Casas Way @ Palo Vista BEFORE the ambulance and AT THE SAME TIME be seen still on West La Loma AFTER the ambulance arrived?

It's not a trick question. The answer is he cannot be seen in two places at once. How was he able to get back to West La Loma when he (according to your scenario) was running down Las Casas Way?
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By Archangel76
Member
2 years ago
2159 Posts
Re: Logical Deduction & Reasoning

Yep and that 9/10ths of a mile could be completed in four minutes flat by someone who is in excellent physical condition, especially under the influence of adrenaline. Not saying he did it in four minutes, but it is possible. West La Loma and La Casas Way are about a quarter of a mile away from each other.
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Edited by Cimmerian10, 2 years ago
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By Cimmerian10
Member
2 years ago
1000 Posts
I Have Not Ignored Anything

My whole point is that not all of the eyewitness accounts are perfect representations of what actually happened. I am not even stating that the witnesses were describing the same guy. I don't know what really happened that night....and neither do you. I will tell you one thing. The times reported are approximate and everyone involved did not synchronize their watches ahead of time. Also what happens at a crime scene is that a person witnesses something, then they relay their impression of what they saw to a officer, then the officer scribbles down some notes of what he heard the witness say, then later he writes up a report. I once witnessed a rather serious crime and I can tell you two things: 1. The officer's take on what I saw varied significantly from what I told him, and 2. It took quite awhile for the Police and ambulance to arrive.

P.S.

I have a lot of respect for your efforts even as I continue to be disappointed by your condescending tone.
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Edited by Repoman, 2 years ago
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By Repoman
Member
2 years ago
1487 Posts
I Am Getting Tired...

of answering questions to which the conclusion should be obvious and instead, I get every conclusion from you except the most obvious. Physician's Ambulance was located at 10113 Folsom Blvd. literally down the street from the Maggiore homicide. You can do the math on how long it would take to respond. The ambulance arrived before the first officer responded. The first officer responded at 9:16pm after receiving the shots fired call broadcast at 9:13pm. He was located at the A&W at 9989 Folsom Blvd.

I am through with providing any more information. It is obvious to me that you are not interested in what happened but rather interested in disproving the information that I've provided for whatever reason.

My condescending tone (as you refer to it) comes from having spent 7 years trying to understand this case, coming to this board to share what I've learned and then have someone who hasn't spent 7 years trying to understand imply that I don't know what I'm talking about.

I went through this with the EAR A/B nonsense. If Goleta did not connect Domingo/Sanchez, I would still have to deal with people who believed that the Goleta cases are not connected. I am currently dealing with the TKers. No matter what I post that counters their preconceived theory, they ignore the obvious and postulate the preposterous.

By somehow suggesting the one person can be in all of these places at the same time, you are following in a long line of people trying to fit a square peg theory into a round hole. I have seen this over and over and over again and that is why the EAR remains unidentified to this day.
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Edited by Archangel76, 2 years ago
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By Archangel76
Member
2 years ago
2159 Posts
Whatever

So anybody that asks for clarification or points out possible flaws is a batty loon? I guess now I know where you are coming from. For the last time I never said that I believe both suspects are the same guy. Without access to the mountain of information that you are holding back how could I form an opinion. I just do not understand why you think that it is not possible that they could be the same guy. Afterall they were both seen running around in the same neighborhood around the same time. I bet if I could comb through all the old posts I would see that your opinion on this and other matters regarding this case has shifted over the years. So your opinions have evolved over time but others are just nuts. Interesting. I think your contribution to this case is commendable. Your attitude and ego however are deplorable.
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Edited by Repoman, 2 years ago
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By Repoman
Member
2 years ago
1487 Posts
Please Forgive My Frustration
Repoman,

I did not refer to you or anyone else as a batty loon. I have encountered people who have put forth preconceived theories that do not fit the known case facts. Rather than amend their theories, they amend the facts. Some of the best leads in this case were ignored because of that way of approaching the investigation. Over 30 years of leads were lost because the original SBSD detectives ignored what Det. Crompton & Bevins told them about Goleta 1 & 2. Joe Alsip almost went to jail because the detectives would not amend their case theory. People lost their lives and the EAR/ONS so far has gotten away with murder.

Please forgive my frustration with all of this. I believed what we were told back in 1978. We were told that the enhanced composite was a clearer likeness of the Maggiore's shooter. It was not. It was a completely different person. There is no wiggle room on that. If we keep assuming that guy is the shooter of the Maggiores, the Maggiore case will never be solved along with the EAR/ONS case.

Suspect #1 (composite released 2/16/78) is the shooter of the Maggiores. If the EAR murdered the Maggiores, that is what he looks like.
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By Archangel76
Member
2 years ago
2159 Posts
Someone Has Gotten Away With Murder...
Because the enhanced composite suspect was morphed into the shooter of the Maggiores.
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By Archangel76
Member
2 years ago
2159 Posts
Re: Someone Has Gotten Away With Murder...
Posted By: Archangel76
Because the enhanced composite suspect was morphed into the shooter of the Maggiores.
I think that is overstating things. Both of the composites look very similar to each other. And it is likely that the EAR did not look exactly like either rendering. Composites like other eyewitness testimony are far from exact.
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By Repoman
Member
2 years ago
1487 Posts
Someone Has Gotten Away With Murder
Lots of that going on. Stranger murders are bloody hard to solve. Especially without physical evidence. And when EAR was working he didn't leave much. Except the DNA, that nobody knew about at the time.
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By f1guyus
Member
2 years ago
1265 Posts
Re: Logical Deduction & Reasoning

Arch, if you are still here, if I could ask you one last question.

For the record, based on your investigation and what you think is the most likely scenario backed up by available evidence, you think the sketch below is the most accurate depiction of the man who shot the Maggiore's? And by extension if the Maggiore killer was EAR/ONS, then this is the best sketch of EAR/ONS? Thanks.

EAR Sketch Maggiore John Doe 2.jpg
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By akwilks
Member
2 years ago
1346 Posts
Suspect #1 Composite Sketch

AK,

The composite sketch released 2/16/78 (the one shown on your post) is the most reliable likeness of the shooter of the Maggiores. He was seen minutes before the shooting with the person with the mustache. The person with the mustache MAY HAVE been Sgt. Maggiore.

The shooter of the Maggiores left the shoelace behind at the crime scene. So if the shooter of the Maggiores was also the EAR/ONS, then that composite is the most reliable likeness of the EAR/ONS.
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Edited by Archangel76, 2 years ago
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By Archangel76
Member
2 years ago
2159 Posts
Physician's Ambulance 1 Minute Away from Crime Scene

Question posed by Repoman: How does a ambulance respond to the scene of a shooting in under three minutes? It would take a minute or two just to pick up the phone, dial 911, and convey the information to the operator.

Physician's Ambulance was located at 10113 Folsom Blvd. 2 minutes away doing the speed limit. One minute away driving 45 mph.
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Edited by Archangel76, 2 years ago
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By Archangel76
Member
2 years ago
2159 Posts