Set 23

[Drifter]

Professions of the EAR victims

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Edited by Cimmerian10, 2 years ago

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By Cimmerian10
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Brazilian Boyfriend

Hi LFL,

Cimm posted the below reference to a brazilian boyfriend of Cheri Domingo.



CIMM: We already know that some of the ONS victims were ethnically diverse, Janelle Cruz (Hispanic) had a non-Hispanic mother. Greg Sanchez had a non-hispanic partner. Cheri Domingo once had a Brazilian boyfriend. Having close relationships with persons of other ethnicities and races was considered a bit of a college educated type of thing back then. It was a college educated lifestyle. ONS definitely has a taste for people from University backgrounds. Some of the EAR attacks even occured on college campuses.



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By guessting
Member
3 years ago
2045 Posts

Search function and other necessities..
LFL,
I forgot to mention that I have been unable to search many things on this new board. That was such a valuable tool on the other board. It is such a loss that we are not able to access the old board. It had such valuable information on it that has now been lost forever. I have been told by AE they are revising this board and soon it will have a search function as well as an IGNORE function. g

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By guessting
Member
3 years ago
2045 Posts

Search function
The search function would sure help especially if all of a sudden someone gets a brain storm. Without it those brain storms may become sprinkles.

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By LFL
Member
3 years ago
37 Posts

Re: Professions of the EAR victims

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Edited by MarcoPolo, 3 years ago

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By MarcoPolo
Member
3 years ago
44 Posts

Brazilian boyfriend
I also remember watching the Dateline episode on the Husted's and DiRodeo murders and the program stated that Wendy DiRodeo had a Brazilian boyfriend that she had gotten close to, but they have not been able to locate him. Not sure if this is relevant given that EAR supposedly has blonde hair and blue eyes.

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By lawstudent1
Member
3 years ago
316 Posts

Re: Professions of the EAR victims

LS1: Indeed. Very few blue eyed/blond haired people in Brazil.

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Edited by Cimmerian10, 2 years ago

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By Cimmerian10
Member
3 years ago
1000 Posts

Professions

Your post is old, so I don't know if you're still interested, but I was a victim of VR and have been told that the fingerprints on my window/dresser matched the EAR.

From 1974-1979, I was a Realtor. But his attempted attacks came my way from 1983-1985, during which time I was single and had two daughters attending Mt Whitney High School. I had many phone calls - over 700 starting in 1976. They came fewer and fewer after 1978. Traps on my phone showed that they came from many different houses. Some of those houses had been ransacked.

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By 222Urit
Member
2 years ago
71 Posts

Re: Professions
Posted By: LFL
Ok, guys, I haven't been on this site for a long time. The old site had a search function. I can't find one on this site. The guy up in the glass office has asked me a question after seeing this on the A&E site. He said he had seen something about a Brazilian. Here's what he said "I saw where one of those A&E contributors mentioned Cheryl Domingo had a Brazilian boyfriend. Does anybody know who he was? We did have that one woman who said her husband was the EAR and he was from Brazil".
I just ran across this posting. So Cheri Domingo had a Brazilian boyfriend and a woman said her husband was the EAR and he was from Brazil. I wonder if that Brazilian connection has been checked out. I wonder if the Brazilian boyfriend was an ex or current boyfriend of Cheri Domingo. I wonder where this woman's Brazilian boyfriend lived? Santa Barbara? Does anyone know the answer to these questions?

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By Sandia
Member
1 year ago
1382 Posts

Types
By the two Stockton victims EAR had a thing for petite brunettes with long hair. California is chock full of hot Latinas and Mediterranean types and most of them are dark haired and mega sexy. I know, I married one 50 years ago.

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By f1guyus
Member
1 year ago
1265 Posts

[Drifter]

Psychological Profile of ONS

Psychological profile

After criminalists matched serological evidence found at the southern California murder scenes, a psychological profile of the Original Night Stalker was compiled. According to Leslie D'Ambrosia, who was the primary author of the profile, it's likely that the Original Night Stalker would possess the following characteristics:

White male
Emotional age of 26 to 30 at the time the crimes were committed
Likely began as a peeping tom in his, late teens or early twenties.
Lived and/or worked near Ventura, California in 1980
Had some means of income, but did not work in the early morning hours
Drove a well-maintained car
Dressed well and would not stand out in upscale neighborhoods
Would appear harmless
Intelligent and articulate
Neat and well-organized in his personal life
Possibly unmarried and did not enter into long-term relationships
Would have been described by those who knew him as arrogant, domineering, manipulative, and a chronic liar
Had some knowledge of police investigative methods and evidence gathering techniques
Was a skilled and experienced cat burglar and may have begun that way
Was in good physical condition
Had a criminal record as a teenager which was expunged
Engaged in sex with prostitutes
Peeped into the windows of many potential victims who were not attacked
Engaged in deviant paraphilic behavior and brutal sex in his personal life
Sexually functional and capable of ejaculation with consenting and non-consenting partners
Self-assured and confident in his abilities
Hated women for real or perceived wrongs
Would continue committing violent crimes until incapacitated by prison, death, or some other intervention
If married, probably has a submissive spouse who tolerated his sexually deviant behavior

In addition to describing the characteristics of the Original Night Stalker, the profile also speculates about the fate of the slayer. According to the profile, the Original Night Stalker could have been incarcerated following Janelle Cruz' murder or killed in the commission of a similar crime. As to the latter point, the profile indicates that law enforcement agencies should look into attempted hot prowl burglaries in the late 1980s which resulted in the death of a lone male offender. The profile also indicates that there is a slight chance the Original Night Stalker committed suicide, but that it would be unlikely that he is confined in a mental institution.

The profile reveals that, following the original homicides in this series, teletypes were broadcast to law enforcement agencies throughout the United States. These teletypes requested information on similar home invasion attacks involving sexual assault, murder, bludgeoning, multiple victims, and/or bondage. As of 2010, no similar crimes have been reported in the United States. The profile propounds the possibility, however, that the Original Night Stalker could have continued committing his crimes in another country where records were not consulted for linkage purposes.

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By guessting
Member
3 years ago
2045 Posts


Re: Re: Re: Or not..
Posted By: ladyofthelake
Posted By: watermokasin3
Posted By: guessting
AE7,

Many of the suspected calls were hang up calls. I suspect he possibly called prior to the attacks verifying the household schedule and occupants. There were other calls too. Both obscene and threatening..g
Isnt it true EAR called up to ten neighber houses after a rape? Im pretty sure i read that on the pervious board. Those couldnt all be hang up calls.
What type of occupation would lend to a perp. being able to figure out numerous adjacent neighbors' phone numbers? I wonder. Obviously postal workers have mail sorted by adjoining houses. They could look up individual phone numbers easily. Meter readers, phone company workers, census workers, newspaper delivery people. Anyone else? How about school districts? Do they keep lists based on names or addresses? Public services like police and fire. Or anyone who goes door to door selling something. Vacume salespersons, boy scouts, etc.
I think he lived near the homes he targeted in the beginning when he was ransacking homes in visalia.He was probably a paper boy and knew when the owners were coming and going.Nobody knows a persons schedule better than the kid doing the collecting because they hate having to go back more than once to collect money.And one thing i guarantee you the police over looked were JOHNS that had been arrested during that time period or prostitutes that were murdered that they never linked to ear.Some of the victims stated they felt they knew him,some of them probably did.Its hard to go back to the beginning in a case thats over 30 years old but unfortunately thats where all the answers lye.

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By tad
Member
2 years ago
102 Posts

Re: db: The Leap Over The Cruz Fence
Posted By: AngelEyes7

Hi Bolt--

I wasn't aware of that detail until now--good post! I think you're right about why he chose to vault the fence--I'm sure the old feelings of exhilaration came back to him. I'd like to further that by saying that he probably did it to prove to himself that he was still capable of stealth and speed. I surmise that he was probably around 30 by the time of the Cruz homicide. One thing to consider is that the athleticism of a 30-year old is far different from that of an 18 or 20-year old. By 30, one needs to be keeping up with taking care of one's self, or physical ability starts going to pot.

Of course, at the same time, EAR/ONS strikes me as the sort who would definitely keep in shape.

AE7
You seem pretty sure about the age.

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By thelostsock
Member
2 years ago
224 Posts

Re: db: More On Your Last Post
Posted By: AngelEyes7

Hi Bolt--

Were you interested in this case when A&E had the old board up and running? Once you sifted through the junk, there was an extraordinary wealth of information there, and it's really a shame that it's no longer accessible here. I learned a great deal there, and there were very good discussions that specifically focused on the Cruz case.

I don't have proof; therefore, these comments aren't absolutes, but based on the information available, I'm inclined to believe that Ms. Cruz knew her killer. It wouldn't surprise me if he had been planning her as a target for some time prior to the commission of the crime. Mud and grass fibers were found in her bed and inside the residence as per the FDLE Report available at jj's website. It wouldn't surprise me if he was already waiting for her when she arrived home. I'm sure he watched her as she went about her routines, and especially as she was "entertaining" her male friend. Everybody, please excuse my wording--I don't mean to imply anything there because I don't know exactly what transpired between the houseguest and Ms. Cruz--that's always been a murky area, even in available reports. I surmise that the suspect slipped into the residence, and that's what alerted the guest--at least--to his presence and Ms. Cruz's dismissal of the noises as coming from the washing machine. Interestingly, he deviated from his now-established course and permitted the houseguest to leave, allowing him lone access to Ms. Cruz. Why? Is it possible he knew the houseguest as well? This case, along with the Witthuhn case from February 1981 are related, and I believe this to be so because of the short distance (a mile or less, perhaps?) between the homes. It is important, too, to note that there is a park between the two homes, and as per his established operating methods, the suspect likes green belts, parks, and open spaces. These observations tend to point towards the possibility that EAR/ONS was living in Irvine at this time, or if not, then perhaps he was a frequent visitor as a result of family or employment.

One thing that bothers me, however, is the murder weapon itself, and where it came from. It is speculated that a pipe wrench was used to bludgeon Ms. Cruz, and her stepfather did report a tool of this nature missing from the backyard--per A76's website. While it's possible he was planning on committing this crime, I think it's also possible that his impulses got the better of his judgment--and this wouldn't be the first time capriciousness has overruled his generally cautious approach towards his crimes. By this I mean it's possible he was simply stalking and maybe he decided he had to have Ms. Cruz that night, that moment, and as a result, he needed to improvise; perhaps not having his infamous ski mask and "kit" with him--again, this is not a one-time phenomenon; it's occurred in the past as well.

AE7
Interesting

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By thelostsock
Member
2 years ago
224 Posts

a few quick things

This thread goes all over the place, like most of them, so its hard to keep track of things.

But in the case of the profilers, they are often wrong, and some are more wrong than right. There is a lot of controversy over it. Personally, I think some things in criminal behavior can be predicted more often than other, but nothing explains behavior at 100%, and a lot of so-called profilers come on with a air of certainty with their pronouncements and it isnt very helpful to look at things in such a way.

Why didnt any victims smell cigarettes or beer on his breath? Was everyone a smoker? I doubt it. Same with beer drinking. He had the mask up over his mouth in a lot of the attacks, and his breath was close to the victim's head a lot of times. So its peculiar. The scent of johnson&johnson baby lotion would have masked some smells but not beer or tobacco, or smoke on clothes.

It obvious he liked his victims fear of him and that he was sadistic, but ive heard of rapists doing much more to humiliate and scare their victims. Not downplaying what he did because if youre sadistic, youve already crossed a line and the victims thought they were going to die or their children were going to die based on what he said to them. So he was sadistic enough. However, reading through all the victims reports in ST, if seems to me that while he liked the fear it generated, he was mainly using the threats to control the victims into being compliant. For example, some of the youngest victims didnt quite understand the nature of his threats in the way an adult would, and he had to explain it over to them that he could kill them with his knife, etc. He usually didnt employ more torture, mental or physical, past what was in his script unless they physically tried to best him or he came upon them already in a rage from his last failure to control the victim. He'd gag the victim and then constantly ask them pointless questions and then tell them to shut up, even though they couldnt talk anyway, he didnt ask them a question and then beat them in justification. He seemed to be doing everything from a script and those questions and shut ups were either part of it, or the women werent supposed to talk at all in the way he used to fantasize it, or it was done out of his own anxiety. I think from his overall behavior, he was in fantasyland when he was raping, he was playing out his fantasy of controlling the woman and fulfilling his sexual experience, and he was using physical force, punching her head, only when he had to, and not as part of his fantasy.
Now by the time he decided to kill the victims, he may have ramped up the terror and humiliation of the women to justify his killing of them, partly. Before when they would cry, he would tell them to shut up. As well as not wanting them to cry because someone would hear them, it also didnt seem to be part of his sexual fantasy to have them crying. Or again it just wasnt practical. A woman who just witnessed her husband's murder would be either in shock or hysterical, thereby in his mind justifying him to be more enraged, more brutal,

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Edited by the confidence is the balaclava, 10 months ago

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By the confidence is the balaclava
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10 months ago
469 Posts

[Drifter]

Question for Arch

Archangel76's recent thread (Dissemination of Case Information) reminded me of something that I've wanted to verify for some time now. I have read numerous news articles from the 1970s which state that the EAR attacked in Sacramento in 1975. I also vaguely remember the timeline including an attack from 1975, but this was eons ago. Was this simply the result of the media misinterpreting information or was there an attack in 1975 that was later ruled out as an EAR crime? Thank you for your time, Arch.

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Edited by Cimmerian10, 2 years ago

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By Cimmerian10
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2 years ago
1000 Posts


2 Attacks from 1975 later Removed
Cim10,

There were two rapes from 1975 that were later removed from the official list. One occurred in Oct. 1975. I have never been able to determine where and when the other 1975 attack occurred. I have asked the retired investigators and they cannot remember the specifics. There were two other EAR attacks from the original list that were later removed. One was attack #32. It was later determined to have been committed by an EAR copycat. I forget which other one was removed but it was early on before the 32nd attack was removed. I remember it because it kept throwing off my timeline. It is mentioned in one of the newspaper articles. I vaguely recall it being an aborted attack in 1976.

There are other possible EAR attacks. They were attacks that were aborted for one reason or another. The last Danville attack was one that I didn't know about originally. I also didn't know about the San Jose attacks but added them later. The Sacramento magazine article "Unsolved Mystery" mentions an attack in Tracy, CA but I have never been able to confirm this.
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By Archangel76
Member
2 years ago
2159 Posts
Re: Question for Arch
Archangel76, thank you kindly for the quick and informative response. This is very alarming news for me, especially if these attacks were wrongly ruled out as EAR attacks (not saying that they necessarily had to have been). What also fascinates me is the sheer amount of crime that was going on back in the 1970s. Everyone I talk to acts like crime is getting out of control nowadays. Well, people really just don't realize how soft of a world it is that we live in today. It seems like just about every household in northern California had to have been the location of a violent crime back in the 1970s. You had multiple serial killers working the bay area, multiple rapists hitting Sacramento and Rancho Cordova especially, multiple serial killers in the LA and outlying areas in the early 1980s, etc.
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By Cimmerian10
Member
2 years ago
1000 Posts
Re: Question for Arch

If the 1975 attacks were East Area Rapist attacks then I think that shows us just how much of a "travelling man" the EAR was. There were Visalia Ransacker attacks that occurred in 1976. There may have been EAR attacks that occurred in Sacramento in 1975. That's a pretty big distance to travel. I think this also shows what type of offender he was. Assuming it was the EAR that raped in Sacramento in 1975 it means he was travelling all the way to Visalia to commit his stupid burglaries while already being a serial rapist.
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Edited by Cimmerian10, 2 years ago
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By Cimmerian10
Member
2 years ago
1000 Posts
Decade of the Serial Killer

Cim10,

You bring up a very important point about the 1970's. It was the decade of the serial killer. Before the 1970's had even begun, we had the Tate-La Bianca murders and the Zodiac. Then we had the Green Beret murders (blamed on a Manson-like group), then there was the Co-ed Killer (Edmund Kemper), Ted Bundy, the Hillside Strangler, Son of Sam, Richard Chase and Gerald Gallegos. To ring in the 80's, (and unbeknownst to all of us) the ONS and many more left off the list were loose and active. Richard Ramirez picked up where the ONS left off.

At the time the EAR was threatening to kill his next two victims (on 5/17/77), the Son of Sam was still at large. (Port posted the article about the EAR and the SOS). Zodiac was considered active. His letters were still being sent out. When the EAR made his infamous threat, there was real hysteria in Sacramento.

That is the context in which the "artist's conception" of the EAR was released to the newspapers. Ironically, as I speak about putting out the truth, I can say releasing the phony composite had the desired effect. It made us all calm down a little. People were on the verge of vigilantism. There is no doubt in my mind that a lot of innocent (or guilty) people would have been killed or injured.

So while I am critical of the release of the "artist's conception", I certainly understand why it was released. I can tell you from personal experience, it calmed me down. At that point, we thought that the SCSD had a pretty good idea of who they were looking for and we needed to just let them do their work.

Who knew?
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Edited by Archangel76, 2 years ago
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By Archangel76
Member
2 years ago
2159 Posts
Re: 2 Attacks from 1975 later Removed
Posted By: Archangel76
Cim10,

There were two rapes from 1975 that were later removed from the official list. One occurred in Oct. 1975. I have never been able to determine where and when the other 1975 attack occurred. I have asked the retired investigators and they cannot remember the specifics. There were two other EAR attacks from the original list that were later removed. One was attack #32. It was later determined to have been committed by an EAR copycat. I forget which other one was removed but it was early on before the 32nd attack was removed. I remember it because it kept throwing off my timeline. It is mentioned in one of the newspaper articles. I vaguely recall it being an aborted attack in 1976.

There are other possible EAR attacks. They were attacks that were aborted for one reason or another. The last Danville attack was one that I didn't know about originally. I also didn't know about the San Jose attacks but added them later. The Sacramento magazine article "Unsolved Mystery" mentions an attack in Tracy, CA but I have never been able to confirm this.
Arch,
I know the October 1975 rape was near McGregor Drive. Do you know what street it was on? This is an interesting attack since the Police did not remove it from the list until October of 1978. Up until then they believed that it was the EAR's first rape.
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By Repoman
Member
2 years ago
1487 Posts
Elimination of the October, 1975 rape
Posted By: Cimmerian10

If the 1975 attacks were East Area Rapist attacks then I think that shows us just how much of a "travelling man" the EAR was. There were Visalia Ransacker attacks that occurred in 1976. There may have been EAR attacks that occurred in Sacramento in 1975. That's a pretty big distance to travel. I think this also shows what type of offender he was. Assuming it was the EAR that raped in Sacramento in 1975 it means he was travelling all the way to Visalia to commit his stupid burglaries while already being a serial rapist.
I've always wondered why this one was eliminated; did it happen on one of the VR nights of activity in Visalia? It was mentioned in the May, 1977 article: "It was between the time of the Snelling murder and the shot fired at the officer that the string of Sacramento rapes began, generally in October, 1975." We always refer to the murder of COS Professor, Claude Snelling (9/11/75), but sort of dismiss the VR's REAL INTENTION -- abduction of Beth. Then, on 9/22/75, on a MONDAY (oddity), a home was broken into again. A female Mt. Whitney student lived in this house, and the lady of the house received not only graphic and lewd phone calls, but a knock on the door and the peep-hole being blocked by someone standing on the porch. There were four more hits on the west side of Mooney, all on 10/24, and then VR moved back to east side of Mooney. The 10/29 - 12/10 ransackings all occurr on either Sunday or Wednesday evenings in the area of the First Baptist Church, FBC had both Sunday evening services (largely attended) and numerous adult and youth-group Wednesday night Bible studies. They also served dinner to well over 100 members on Wednesday nights.
The newspaper article about the stakeout (McGowen incident) states that the VR had been prowling in the area on several occassions. A young girl (who attended Mt. Whitney) was obviously being targeted, but things didn't go as VR had planned. That was the last of Visalia's ransacker -- his uncovered face had been seen, and McGowen's doughboy sketch was in the paper within a week of the stakeout. VR's frustration level must have been quite high. The May,1977 article states, "When psychologist compiled a profile of the man responsible for the Visalia crimes, they said he probably would become more violent and dangerous." I won't go on, but those who know me know what I'm referring to when I type, 12/26/75.
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By dengas
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2 years ago
966 Posts
EAR Attacks Removed from Official List

Repoman,

I know the October 1975 rape was near McGregor Drive. Do you know what street it was on? This is an interesting attack since the Police did not remove it from the list until October of 1978. Up until then they believed that it was the EAR's first rape.

Unfortunately, we could never get specific information about the 1975 attacks removed from the list. We also have not been able to get specific information about the "Early Morning Rapist" attacks which had been confused for the EAR attacks early in the investigation.

There was dissension in the ranks about the EMR crimes. Some investigators felt that the EAR attacks were an extension of the EMR attacks. Shelby is adamant that the EAR is a completely separate series committed by a separate offender. Based on the limited information that I have right now, I agree with Shelby. The problem in making a definitive determination is that we know almost nothing about the EMR's M.O./Signature. We also don't know what happened to the EMR.

There was an attack in 1976 on Paseo Drive that was removed from the list. I am going through the old newspaper articles because they list some of the attacks that were also removed. There was a rape committed on 1/31/77 in Orangevale originally attributed to the EAR. That is the case were William Paul Boren was arrested for that attack.

By 3/8/77, the newspapers were referring to that attack as the 16th EAR attack. In reality (at least according to the list we have now), it was the 14th EAR attack. Which means that two additional cases would be removed. The October 1975 case is one. Maybe the 1976 case on Paseo is the other.

There were other cases added and removed later. I'll post info on those as I find them.
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Edited by Archangel76, 2 years ago
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By Archangel76
Member
2 years ago
2159 Posts
Re: Decade of the Serial Killer
Posted By: Archangel76

Cim10,

You bring up a very important point about the 1970's. It was the decade of the serial killer. Before the 1970's had even begun, we had the Tate-La Bianca murders and the Zodiac. Then we had the Green Beret murders (blamed on a Manson-like group), then there was the Co-ed Killer (Edmund Kemper), Ted Bundy, the Hillside Strangler, Son of Sam, Richard Chase and Gerald Gallegos. To ring in the 80's, (and unbeknownst to all of us) the ONS and many more left off the list were loose and active. Richard Ramirez picked up where the ONS left off.

At the time the EAR was threatening to kill his next two victims (on 5/17/77), the Son of Sam was still at large. (Port posted the article about the EAR and the SOS). Zodiac was considered active. His letters were still being sent out. When the EAR made his infamous threat, there was real hysteria in Sacramento.

That is the context in which the "artist's conception" of the EAR was released to the newspapers. Ironically, as I speak about putting out the truth, I can say releasing the phony composite had the desired effect. It made us all calm down a little. People were on the verge of vigilantism. There is no doubt in my mind that a lot of innocent (or guilty) people would have been killed or injured.

So while I am critical of the release of the "artist's conception", I certainly understand why it was released. I can tell you from personal experience, it calmed me down. At that point, we thought that the SCSD had a pretty good idea of who they were looking for and we needed to just let them do their work.

Who knew?

That's an excellent summary of the subject. Thankfully those days are over due to increased access to medications and therapy which stops crime before it happens. I'm always amazed at what some of these drugs can do to people. As time goes on hopefully we can identify serial offender genetics and remove them from the population although that will be a futile effort if we do not curb the environmental and spiritual problems.

Back then it must have seemed to a lot of people that the world was going to hell in a hand basket. It really just goes to show you how much more resilient people were back then. If we had a guy like EAR running around nowadays I think the public would just hang themselves. Today we have security cameras and checkpoints everywhere to circumvent threats that really do not exist. Our chances of being the victims of violent crimes have never been lower in all of history.

I think it might have something to do with people turning away from God. The naysayers can say whatever they want but they must admit that the most resilient people in the world are those who adhere to the teachings of Abraham and the eastern philosophies. Just look at what's going on in the middle east right now. These people have strength through God. We as a nation must turn to the teachings of our choice because a spiritually empty nation cannot handle a threat like EARONS which is the living incarnation of the devil. You can have all of the man-made technology and case files in the world but that will not amount to squat with a guy like EARONS if you are not using it under the guidance of a positive spiritual force. You and I have said it over and over again: this is a spiritual struggle.



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Edited by Cimmerian10, 2 years ago
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By Cimmerian10
Member
2 years ago
1000 Posts
Re: EAR Attacks Removed from Official List
Posted By: Archangel76

Repoman,

I know the October 1975 rape was near McGregor Drive. Do you know what street it was on? This is an interesting attack since the Police did not remove it from the list until October of 1978. Up until then they believed that it was the EAR's first rape.

Unfortunately, we could never get specific information about the 1975 attacks removed from the list. We also have not been able to get specific information about the "Early Morning Rapist" attacks which had been confused for the EAR attacks early in the investigation.

There was dissension in the ranks about the EMR crimes. Some investigators felt that the EAR attacks were an extension of the EMR attacks. Shelby is adamant that the EAR is a completely separate series committed by a separate offender. Based on the limited information that I have right now, I agree with Shelby. The problem in making a definitive determination is that we know almost nothing about the EMR's M.O./Signature. We also don't know what happened to the EMR.

There was an attack in 1976 on Paseo Drive that was removed from the list. I am going through the old newspaper articles because they list some of the attacks that were also removed. There was a rape committed on 1/31/77 in Orangevale originally attributed to the EAR. That is the case were William Paul Boren was arrested for that attack.

By 3/8/77, the newspapers were referring to that attack as the 16th EAR attack. In reality (at least according to the list we have now), it was the 14th EAR attack. Which means that two additional cases would be removed. The October 1975 case is one. Maybe the 1976 case on Paseo is the other.

There were other cases added and removed later. I'll post info on those as I find them.

Thanks for the info on EMR, the EMR case seems to have slept under the radar with the advent of EAR and has been somewhat forgotten , I kinda wonder is there any evidence that was kept from the EMR case? are the case files still around?
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Edited by DanCartell, 2 years ago
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By DanCartell
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2 years ago
683 Posts
Re: 2 Attacks from 1975 later Removed
Posted By: Archangel76
Cim10,

There were two rapes from 1975 that were later removed from the official list. One occurred in Oct. 1975. I have never been able to determine where and when the other 1975 attack occurred. I have asked the retired investigators and they cannot remember the specifics. There were two other EAR attacks from the original list that were later removed. One was attack #32. It was later determined to have been committed by an EAR copycat. I forget which other one was removed but it was early on before the 32nd attack was removed. I remember it because it kept throwing off my timeline. It is mentioned in one of the newspaper articles. I vaguely recall it being an aborted attack in 1976.

There are other possible EAR attacks. They were attacks that were aborted for one reason or another. The last Danville attack was one that I didn't know about originally. I also didn't know about the San Jose attacks but added them later. The Sacramento magazine article "Unsolved Mystery" mentions an attack in Tracy, CA but I have never been able to confirm this.
Interesting you mention that it was attack number 32, your website lists attack 32 as a 10pm attack on a teenage girl.......I had always found that attack odd in terms of the time it took place .....while still on the same theme there is attack number 29& 30 which are also listed as occuring at 10pm : do you have any further info on attack 29 and 30 ?, I ask because I have found it odd that EAR attacked these victims at 10pm as opposed the early morning hours that most rapes took place in.
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By DanCartell
Member
2 years ago
683 Posts
FOIA

It is apparent that the we will not be able to obtain detailed info on the October 1975 rape using the usual investigative methods. I suggest that AKWilks who is already working on FOIA for other potential EAR recordings file an FOIA request on this attack if it is possible. I believe it is extremely important to identify the first EAR attack as the earlier we get in his crimes the more likely he attacked closer to home and was more prone to make rookie mistakes.


Also in addition I wonder if it is possibl to file an FOIA request on the October 1987 Oakdale, CA attack? Was the home in close proximity to a freeway? Were there shoe prints found etc..were there reports of prowling or suspicious people in the area? Was the attack site close to recent construction?
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Edited by conquistador1521, 2 years ago
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By conquistador1521
Member
2 years ago
388 Posts
Spiritual Struggle
Cim10,

You are absolutely right about it being a spiritual struggle.
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By Archangel76
Member
2 years ago
2159 Posts
EMR Case Files
As far as I know, most of the EMR case files no longer exist. Most of the cases were with the SPD and I've heard that they "purged" them.
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By Archangel76
Member
2 years ago
2159 Posts
Number 32
The original 32 (if memory serves) was later deemed to be the work of a "copycat". It occurred in Rancho Cordova near Ambassador Drive. There was another copycat attack that occurred in some apartments on La Riviera. It was first thought to be the EAR and then later removed. There may have been an arrest in that case.
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By Archangel76
Member
2 years ago
2159 Posts
May 1975

In a later newspaper article, it mentions May 1975 being the start date of the EAR crimes. This is the other 1975 attack that I have absolutely no information on. I would like to know why it was considered an EAR crime in the first place and why it was removed. Maybe it should not have been removed.
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Edited by Archangel76, 2 years ago
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By Archangel76
Member
2 years ago
2159 Posts
Oakdale
Oakdale is some distance from a freeway, nearest being 99. It's become a suburb of Modesto. Interestingly when EAR offended in Modesto one of the newspaper stories, possibly in the Modesto Bee quoted a Modesto LE as believing EAR was living in Modesto at the time of the attacks. Don't know about Oakdale but contemporary with the EAR/ONS attacks there was a lot of residential construction all over the Valley. A lot. That's one of the reasons LE spent so much time looking at construction guys. Highly mobile and generally in good shape.
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By f1guyus
Member
2 years ago
1265 Posts

[Drifter]

Reasonable Conclusions

It is reasonable to come to the conclusion that the VR and the EAR are one and the same. It is reasonable to conclude that they are not the same person. It is reasonable to conclude that the EAR murdered the Maggiores. I do not think that it is reasonable to conclude that he acted alone. It is reasonable to conclude that the EAR was not involved in the murders of the Maggiore.

It depends on the weight one gives to which case facts. There are consistencies and inconsistencies. If you favor the consistencies, you will conclude that the cases are connected. If you favor the inconsistencies, you will discount a connection. It is not quite the glass being half full or half empty but you get the idea.

Prior to the DNA connection in Goleta, it was reasonable to conclude that the cases were connected. And it was reasonable to conclude that they were not connected. However, only one interpretation is the correct one. And depending on which interpretation is correct, so goes the investigation. If one concludes that there is a connection between the VR and the EAR, one will tend to be dismissive of any suspects that cannot be connected to the Visalia area. Precious time and resources will be diverted "clearing" all of those suspects that can be connected to the Visalia area.

The problem, of course, is if the VR is not the EAR/ONS, this case will continue to remain unsolved. From a strictly practical viewpoint, it would have been better to assume that the cases are not connected focus on any EAR suspect who has ties to the Sacramento area. The Maggiore case, in that sense, does not alter the investigation as the focus will still be in Sacramento and will not be solved until the EAR is identified.

I have chosen to give greater weight to the EAR's statement "I've never killed before" because I can find no reason to believe that was a lie. All of the EAR's actions prior to 12/30/79 are consistent with that statement. Prior to 12/30/79, none of his actions are consistent with the statement, "I've killed some people".

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By Archangel76
Member
5 months ago
2156 Posts


Re: Re: Re: It's Official
Posted By: Archangel76
Posted By: Repoman
Posted By: Archangel76

This is an excellent post. The fact that they both used the same unique method of removing a striker plate to gain entry is very compelling. Also the fact that Officer Mcgowen stated that he ran funny as if he was knock kneed, and another EAR witness noted that he appeared bow legged is very interesting. Yes knock kneed and bow legged are opposite of each other, but they would both make you run funny. Officer Mcgowen would have no way of knowing what was wrong with the VR's legs he could only determine that it made him run in an odd manner. So these two statements are indeed consistent with each other.

Repoman believes that the cases are connected.
Coming from a guy who thinks puppies are scary....

I'd like to watch you pick up some stranger's 7 month old Pitbull. Why don't you go into that neighborhood where you took that crappy picture and try that.

Take a look at these idiots attacked by a pitbull. One of them was attacked by a 4 month old pitbull. So be my guest, Repoman, and pick up some strangers 7 month old pitbull. I'll look to see your photos on this blog:

17barks.blogspot.com/2011/05/pit-bull-safety-top-7-attack-triggers.html

"crappy picture" You mean the photo that shows how misleading some of your statements are? I read your link. Like I said before grizzly bear scary. Bear cub not scary. Lion scary. Lion cub not scary. And I really don't believe that a 4 month old pit bull did that to that lady's head. It is probably a typo. Even if it did it hardly means that all 4 month old pitt bulls are dangerous. The more your talk the more you show just how misguided your judgement really is. Honestly that is too bad considering how important it is for this board to remained focused to be effective. You are petty and driven by emotion which you then try to justify with twisted and faulty logic.
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Edited by Repoman, 5 months ago
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By Repoman
Member
5 months ago
1487 Posts
Re: Re: Re: Re: It's Official
Posted By: Repoman
Posted By: Archangel76
Posted By: Repoman
Posted By: Archangel76

This is an excellent post. The fact that they both used the same unique method of removing a striker plate to gain entry is very compelling. Also the fact that Officer Mcgowen stated that he ran funny as if he was knock kneed, and another EAR witness noted that he appeared bow legged is very interesting. Yes knock kneed and bow legged are opposite of each other, but they would both make you run funny. Officer Mcgowen would have no way of knowing what was wrong with the VR's legs he could only determine that it made him run in an odd manner. So these two statements are indeed consistent with each other.

Repoman believes that the cases are connected.
Coming from a guy who thinks puppies are scary....

I'd like to watch you pick up some stranger's 7 month old Pitbull. Why don't you go into that neighborhood where you took that crappy picture and try that.

Take a look at these idiots attacked by a pitbull. One of them was attacked by a 4 month old pitbull. So be my guest, Repoman, and pick up some strangers 7 month old pitbull. I'll look to see your photos on this blog:

17barks.blogspot.com/2011/05/pit-bull-safety-top-7-attack-triggers.html
"crappy picture" You mean the photo that shows how misleading some of your statements are?

Yeah, that one. What did you think of the photo of the woman who got schooled by a 4 month old pitbull?

17barks.blogspot.com/2011/05/pit-bull-safety-top-7-attack-triggers.html

I've got sense enough not to pick up some stranger's dog. So did the EAR. He knew that dog was not dangerous and that was my original point. He knew that at least as early as when he unloaded the "biker dude's" shotgun.
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Edited by Archangel76, 5 months ago
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By Archangel76
Member
5 months ago
2156 Posts
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: It's Official
Posted By: Archangel76
Posted By: Repoman
Posted By: Archangel76
Posted By: Repoman
Posted By: Archangel76

This is an excellent post. The fact that they both used the same unique method of removing a striker plate to gain entry is very compelling. Also the fact that Officer Mcgowen stated that he ran funny as if he was knock kneed, and another EAR witness noted that he appeared bow legged is very interesting. Yes knock kneed and bow legged are opposite of each other, but they would both make you run funny. Officer Mcgowen would have no way of knowing what was wrong with the VR's legs he could only determine that it made him run in an odd manner. So these two statements are indeed consistent with each other.

Repoman believes that the cases are connected.
Coming from a guy who thinks puppies are scary....

I'd like to watch you pick up some stranger's 7 month old Pitbull. Why don't you go into that neighborhood where you took that crappy picture and try that.

Take a look at these idiots attacked by a pitbull. One of them was attacked by a 4 month old pitbull. So be my guest, Repoman, and pick up some strangers 7 month old pitbull. I'll look to see your photos on this blog:

17barks.blogspot.com/2011/05/pit-bull-safety-top-7-attack-triggers.html
"crappy picture" You mean the photo that shows how misleading some of your statements are?

Yeah, that one. What did you think of the photo of the woman who got schooled by a 4 month old pitbull?

17barks.blogspot.com/2011/05/pit-bull-safety-top-7-attack-triggers.html

I've got sense enough not to pick up some stranger's dog. So did the EAR. He knew that dog was not dangerous and that was my original point.

If you want to know if a sleeping puppy is dangerous all you have to do is slowly place your hand in front of the dogs nose. Then you let it smell your hand and then you pet the dog. Etc. Based on the dogs reaction it is quite easy to tell if the dog is friendly or not. Anyone who has grown up around dogs knows these things. The fact that the EAR was able to pick up and move this puppy just means that he was comfortable around dogs. It does not indicate that he knew that dog. This is plain to see, but you would rather pick fights and defend your crappy little theory then learn something new.
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Edited by Repoman, 5 months ago
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By Repoman
Member
5 months ago
1487 Posts
Probably A Typo

And I really don't believe that a 4 month old pit bull did that to that lady's head. It is probably a typo.

That's your whole approach to this case.
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Edited by Archangel76, 5 months ago
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By Archangel76
Member
5 months ago
2156 Posts
Re: Probably A Typo
Posted By: Archangel76

And I really don't believe that a 4 month old pit bull did that to that lady's head. It is probably a typo.

That's your whole approach to this case.

Great take my statement out of context. I give up. You're pathetic. Grow up. You are no better then Kev all you want to do is argue.
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Edited by Repoman, 5 months ago
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By Repoman
Member
5 months ago
1487 Posts
Video Of Four Month Old Pitt Bull

www.youtube.com/watch?v=9P4brWILZUw
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Edited by Repoman, 5 months ago
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By Repoman
Member
5 months ago
1487 Posts
7 Month Old Pitbull

This is the age of the dog that the EAR "picked up" and showed no fear of. Would any of you have a problem with picking this dog up with no prior knowledge of it's temperament?

www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYMUiKKR-ZE
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Edited by Archangel76, 5 months ago
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By Archangel76
Member
5 months ago
2156 Posts
Why I Don't Believe Everything I Read


Here is the link to the article that the picture of the "victim of a four month old pitt bull attack" seems to come from. It is in Hungarian and if you translate the article it clearly states that she was the victim of a 20 minute attack by a dog. Not a four month old puppy. Arch get real. A four month old puppy would not vicously attack someone. Seriously stop automatically believing everything you read and think things through. You are citing a blog as your source for a highly unlikely story. You are embarrassing yourself. admin.borsonline.hu/cikk.php?id=42780&noInterstitial=1
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Edited by Repoman, 5 months ago
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By Repoman
Member
5 months ago
1487 Posts
You Never Learn...
Posted By: Repoman


Here is the link to the article that the picture of the "victim of a four month old pitt bull attack" seems to come from. It is in Hungarian and if you translate the article it clearly states that she was the victim of a 20 minute attack by a dog. Not a four month old puppy. Arch get real. A four month old puppy would not vicously attack someone. Seriously stop automatically believing everything you read and think things through. You are citing a blog as your source for a highly unlikely story. You are embarrassing yourself. admin.borsonline.hu/cikk.php?id=42780&noInterstitial=1

www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10727853

Pitbull Attack Scalps Woman

An American pitbull dog tore the scalp off a woman and inflicted puncture wounds and bruising all over her body in a fierce attack lasting 20 minutes.

The dog belongs to the victim's sister, who is accused of attacking her before the dog joined in.

Kawerau woman Liz Smith, 52, was visiting her sister at her home in Welcome Bay, Tauranga, when the dog attack happened early on Saturday.

Her sister, Philippa Bayley, 54, appeared in the Tauranga District Court on Monday over the incident.

Ms Smith alleges her sister attacked her about 2am after they had spent the night discussing "issues".

The dog joined in, and Ms Smith says it attacked her for 20 minutes before police arrived.

She thinks a neighbour heard the noise and called for help.

Ms Smith said the dog tore at her scalp, ears, nose and lips.

She was taken to Tauranga Hospital and has undergone surgery.

"It was not going to stop. I begged her 'get the dog off me'," Ms Smith said.

"I don't know how I'm going to get it out of my head when I go to sleep at night. I'm very lucky to have survived this."

Ms Smith wanted to speak out about the attack so the public knew "these dogs don't stop".

She believed that because the dog was only a puppy, claims the breed was trained to attack were untrue.

"I think this will help to prove that it's actually in the breed," she said.

"Half an hour before that, I'd been patting the dog."

Ms Smith said she haemorrhaged during surgery to repair her face and scalp.

She was discharged from Tauranga Hospital yesterday afternoon and said she wanted to thank the staff for their compassion and care.

In court on Monday, Ms Smith's sister faced a charge of wounding with intent to cause grievous bodily harm.

Standing in the dock dressed in blue police-assigned overalls, she was remanded on bail without plea and is due back in court on June 3.

Community magistrate Robyn Paterson granted Bayley bail subject to conditions including a ban on consuming alcohol and non-prescribed drugs, and entering licensed premises, except supermarkets.

Mrs Paterson also banned Bayley from having control of any dog.

Bayley is also barred from having any contact with her sister and entering Kawerau township.

Tauranga City Council animal services team leader Brent Lincoln said American pitbull terriers were the biggest biters, accounting for 18 per cent of attacks yet making up just 1 per cent of the Tauranga dog population.

In the Western Bay in April last year, an American pitbull terrier inflicted leg wounds so serious that the victim needed 10 days in hospital and plastic surgery.


Add translating to your list of things that you do not do well.
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Edited by Archangel76, 5 months ago
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By Archangel76
Member
5 months ago
2156 Posts
4 Month Old Puppy

This article lists the age of the pitbull puppy:

pitowner.blogspot.com/2011/05/woman-scalped-by-sisters-pitbull-attack.html

To quote Repoman:
Why I Don't Believe Everything I Read


Here is the link to the article that the picture of the "victim of a four month old pitt bull attack" seems to come from. It is in Hungarian and if you translate the article it clearly states that she was the victim of a 20 minute attack by a dog. Not a four month old puppy. A four month old puppy would not vicously attack someone. Seriously stop automatically believing everything you read and think things through.

As usual, you're wrong. You are the one who has serious problems thinking things through:

Health fears for impounded puppy

The owner of the young pitbull puppy confiscated after it was allegedly involved in an assault is outraged ‘Mojo’s’ health is deteriorating while at the city’s pound. The 15kg, four month old puppy, was owned by 54 year old Tauranga woman Phillipa Bayley. It was taken from her when she allegedly assaulted her younger sister Liz Smith at her home in Welcome Bay on May 21. Liz claims the dog was involved in the assault, causing injuries to her scalp, but Phillipa told SunLive the dog did not attack her sister.

The puppy is currently at the pound and could be destroyed pending the outcome of court proceedings. Phillipa saw Mojo for the first time at the pound yesterday. “I finally got around to seeing the puppy and he is going demented,” says Phillipa. “He was chewing the bars, he was shaking, foaming at the mouth and he has a big ulcer on his front paw.” Phillipa wants assistance in re-housing the puppy, fearing it will die before authorities decide its future. “The puppy came to me from the neighbours and it was a very sick little pup, but I’ve nursed him and nursed him and he was just starting to bounce around and be really happy (before being confiscated).” Phillipa is due back in Tauranga District Court tomorrow, facing charges in connection with the alleged assault of her sister.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Relevance as it pertains to the EAR case? The EAR picked up a seeming strangers 7 month old pitpull with no fear of the animal. He had been in that residence prior to attack to unload the shotgun.

From "Sudden Terror":

Westcott’s seven month old pit bulldog jumped on the bed while EAR searched the house. When he returned, the dog growled once but did not bark. EAR picked the dog up and walked out of the room.

The EAR either befriended the dog prior to the rape -OR- the dog was already familiar with his "scent" because the EAR knew the dog's owner and had been at the residence previously.

Mess with the wrong pitbull "puppy" and you might end up looking like Uncle Fester.


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Edited by Archangel76, 5 months ago
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By Archangel76
Member
5 months ago
2156 Posts
Re: You Never Learn...
Posted By: Archangel76
Posted By: Repoman


Here is the link to the article that the picture of the "victim of a four month old pitt bull attack" seems to come from. It is in Hungarian and if you translate the article it clearly states that she was the victim of a 20 minute attack by a dog. Not a four month old puppy. Arch get real. A four month old puppy would not vicously attack someone. Seriously stop automatically believing everything you read and think things through. You are citing a blog as your source for a highly unlikely story. You are embarrassing yourself. admin.borsonline.hu/cikk.php?id=42780&noInterstitial=1

www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10727853

Pitbull Attack Scalps Woman

An American pitbull dog tore the scalp off a woman and inflicted puncture wounds and bruising all over her body in a fierce attack lasting 20 minutes.

The dog belongs to the victim's sister, who is accused of attacking her before the dog joined in.

Kawerau woman Liz Smith, 52, was visiting her sister at her home in Welcome Bay, Tauranga, when the dog attack happened early on Saturday.

Her sister, Philippa Bayley, 54, appeared in the Tauranga District Court on Monday over the incident.

Ms Smith alleges her sister attacked her about 2am after they had spent the night discussing "issues".

The dog joined in, and Ms Smith says it attacked her for 20 minutes before police arrived.

She thinks a neighbour heard the noise and called for help.

Ms Smith said the dog tore at her scalp, ears, nose and lips.

She was taken to Tauranga Hospital and has undergone surgery.

"It was not going to stop. I begged her 'get the dog off me'," Ms Smith said.

"I don't know how I'm going to get it out of my head when I go to sleep at night. I'm very lucky to have survived this."

Ms Smith wanted to speak out about the attack so the public knew "these dogs don't stop".

She believed that because the dog was only a puppy, claims the breed was trained to attack were untrue.

"I think this will help to prove that it's actually in the breed," she said.

"Half an hour before that, I'd been patting the dog."

Ms Smith said she haemorrhaged during surgery to repair her face and scalp.

She was discharged from Tauranga Hospital yesterday afternoon and said she wanted to thank the staff for their compassion and care.

In court on Monday, Ms Smith's sister faced a charge of wounding with intent to cause grievous bodily harm.

Standing in the dock dressed in blue police-assigned overalls, she was remanded on bail without plea and is due back in court on June 3.

Community magistrate Robyn Paterson granted Bayley bail subject to conditions including a ban on consuming alcohol and non-prescribed drugs, and entering licensed premises, except supermarkets.

Mrs Paterson also banned Bayley from having control of any dog.

Bayley is also barred from having any contact with her sister and entering Kawerau township.

Tauranga City Council animal services team leader Brent Lincoln said American pitbull terriers were the biggest biters, accounting for 18 per cent of attacks yet making up just 1 per cent of the Tauranga dog population.

In the Western Bay in April last year, an American pitbull terrier inflicted leg wounds so serious that the victim needed 10 days in hospital and plastic surgery.


Add translating to your list of things that you do not do well.

I learn alright. I learn that you are petty and pigheaded. And that you would rather defend your crappy theories then learn something new. This article clearly states several times that it was a dog that attacked her. It also clearly states that the sister of "fester" was attacking her and the dog joined in. Then it mentions once that the dog was a "puppy". It does not mention how old. It certainly does not say a 4 month old puppy. A puppy could be up to a year old. Or used in a more casual way could just mean that it was a young dog...say under 2 years old. So you are in fact once again posting highly misleading information on this board.
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Edited by Repoman2, 5 months ago
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By Repoman2
Member
5 months ago
95 Posts
Re: 7 Month Old Pitbull
Posted By: Archangel76

This is the age of the dog that the EAR "picked up" and showed no fear of. Would any of you have a problem with picking this dog up with no prior knowledge of it's temperament?

www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYMUiKKR-ZE

Arch grow up. The dog in this video is clearly a full grown adult dog and not a 7 month old puppy. If you don't believe me just ask a vet or a breeder. Why do you believe everything that you read? Are you really that foolish?
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Edited by Repoman2, 5 months ago
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By Repoman2
Member
5 months ago
95 Posts
Re: 4 Month Old Puppy
Posted By: Archangel76

This article lists the age of the pitbull puppy:

pitowner.blogspot.com/2011/05/woman-scalped-by-sisters-pitbull-attack.html

To quote Repoman:
Why I Don't Believe Everything I Read


Here is the link to the article that the picture of the "victim of a four month old pitt bull attack" seems to come from. It is in Hungarian and if you translate the article it clearly states that she was the victim of a 20 minute attack by a dog. Not a four month old puppy. A four month old puppy would not vicously attack someone. Seriously stop automatically believing everything you read and think things through.

As usual, you're wrong. You are the one who has serious problems thinking things through:

Health fears for impounded puppy

The owner of the young pitbull puppy confiscated after it was allegedly involved in an assault is outraged ‘Mojo’s’ health is deteriorating while at the city’s pound. The 15kg, four month old puppy, was owned by 54 year old Tauranga woman Phillipa Bayley. It was taken from her when she allegedly assaulted her younger sister Liz Smith at her home in Welcome Bay on May 21. Liz claims the dog was involved in the assault, causing injuries to her scalp, but Phillipa told SunLive the dog did not attack her sister.

The puppy is currently at the pound and could be destroyed pending the outcome of court proceedings. Phillipa saw Mojo for the first time at the pound yesterday. “I finally got around to seeing the puppy and he is going demented,” says Phillipa. “He was chewing the bars, he was shaking, foaming at the mouth and he has a big ulcer on his front paw.” Phillipa wants assistance in re-housing the puppy, fearing it will die before authorities decide its future. “The puppy came to me from the neighbours and it was a very sick little pup, but I’ve nursed him and nursed him and he was just starting to bounce around and be really happy (before being confiscated).” Phillipa is due back in Tauranga District Court tomorrow, facing charges in connection with the alleged assault of her sister.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Relevance as it pertains to the EAR case? The EAR picked up a seeming strangers 7 month old pitpull with no fear of the animal. He had been in that residence prior to attack to unload the shotgun.

From "Sudden Terror":

Westcott’s seven month old pit bulldog jumped on the bed while EAR searched the house. When he returned, the dog growled once but did not bark. EAR picked the dog up and walked out of the room.

The EAR either befriended the dog prior to the rape -OR- the dog was already familiar with his "scent" because the EAR knew the dog's owner and had been at the residence previously.

Mess with the wrong pitbull "puppy" and you might end up looking like Uncle Fester.


Your conclusions here are faulty and illogical. All they really show is that no one should really trust your posts without verifying them
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By Repoman2
Member
5 months ago
95 Posts

[Drifter]

Refocusing on Rancho Cordova

C1521,

As you know, I concur with your belief that the EAR was in Rancho Cordova in 1974. It is your opinion that we should refocus our attention on Rancho Cordova. Because you feel so strongly that we are wasting our time discussing the merits of the possible VR connection to the EAR/ONS, I am asking for your guidance in how to approach refocusing on Rancho Cordova.

As mentioned, Insp. Shelby was the originator (and the sole source) of the belief that the EAR was the teenager who beat the dog to death during a burglary in 1974. The EAR investigation was Sacramento's most extensive and most expensive investigation in the County's history. And it is not as if Shelby was a subordinate who was not allowed to pursue a differing case theory. He was the lead investigator and he was the investigator who identified the EAR's peculiar M.O./Signature.

The Maggiore case was investigated by the homicide division, lead by Lt. Biondi. So, you have a completely different investigative team essentially re-examining the EAR case with the investigation centering on Rancho Cordova, the very neighborhood known to be one of the EAR's comfort zones.

With that level of focus, plus Inv. Pool re-re-examining all of the suspects who came out of those two investigations, if the EAR lived near these Rancho Cordova victims, how is it that he has not been identified to date? There is a finite number of males fitting the EAR's general description who attended Cordova Sr. High school from 1972 to 1975.

How would you go about identifying a suspect and at the same time, not re-re-re-examining the suspects that came out of the EAR investigation and the Maggiore murder investigation.

EAR Victim #1 did not attend Cordova Sr. High school.

This is a serious question because I am out of ideas on this (not really, but I want to hear what you have to say on the matter).

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Edited by Archangel76, 2 years ago

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By Archangel76
Member
2 years ago
2156 Posts


Schools
There is a Jesuit high school just off of fair oaks in RC. Formed in 1963 with 93 kids. All boys. Would a domineering mother send their troubled kid to an all boys school ? Worth a look as well.
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By Smitty2011
Member
2 years ago
107 Posts
Re: 1973 Bizarre Burglary
Posted By: lawstudent1
Arch,
I'm just curious about the details of the 1973 Bizarre Burglary, as I recall several articles about early 1970's burglaries that resembled EAR. I apologize if this had been discussed somewhere and I missed it. Thanks.
LS1,

Like the 1974 dog beating incident, there are little details. It occurred in March of 1973 and involved one of the Rancho Cordova victims. Nothing a value was taken. It seems unlikely that this is a coincidence.
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By Archangel76
Member
2 years ago
2157 Posts
Kinney High School
ED5K,

There was one continuation school in RC. If the EAR flunked out of either Cordova High or Folsom High, he would have ended up at Kinney High School.
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By Archangel76
Member
2 years ago
2157 Posts
High Schools

American Legion Continuation High School was in the city of Sacramento. It's boundaries went all the way to Mather AF base. It also crossed Folsom Blvd. to the north. Many people on this board continue to call this area Rancho Cordova. It is Sacramento and includes Lincoln Village and Larchmont areas.
Peach Tree High School is where many strange people claimed to attend. I cannot remember where it was but it was a continuation or private school. My memory tells me it was south of Folsom Blvd near Jackson Road/Bradshaw.I may be wrong.
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Edited by hdmi, 2 years ago
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By hdmi
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2 years ago
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Re: Refocusing on Rancho Cordova
Arch, it's worth a look. I really can't imagine a kid putting in THIS much time peeping/prowling/and all the rest while at the same time managing to get his homework done, therefore a kid who's flunked out and is being dealt with at a continuation school, is a good possibility.
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By erikdavid5111
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2 years ago
556 Posts
Cordova High School
ED5K,

It's a win-win situation. If the EAR resided somewhere in the Cordova Park subdivision, he would have attended Cordova Senior High School before going to Kinney. So, we would still be looking for a CHS student either as a sophomore or junior. So, certain students can be tracked to see who dropped out by their senior year.
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By Archangel76
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2 years ago
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Re: Refocusing on Rancho Cordova
If so, we should look for kids who didn't manage to finish Kinney either, or were thrown out from there too.
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By erikdavid5111
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2 years ago
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Kinney High Grads
ED5K,

Ironically, most of the kids who attended Kinney High graduated. While at the other high schools, the Kinney High students had problems fitting in. But once at Kinney High, they were there with all of the other misfits, so in that sense, they fit in and they seemed to flourish. I am sure that there were misfits who didn't even fit in with the misfits. They usually ended up in Juvenile Hall and graduated to the County lock up or worse.
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By Archangel76
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2 years ago
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Re: Refocusing on Rancho Cordova
Arch, maybe it would be a good idea to track down some Kinney "kids" from that time and try and maybe jog their memories? Run down the FBI profile for this guy maybe, and see if any of it rings a bell with someone from those days?

I'm sure you've already thought of this
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By erikdavid5111
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2 years ago
556 Posts
EAR 1974

So I just found and read some of this message board about the EAR being in the Rancho Cordova area prior to 1976. In 1974, I was a six grader at Walnutwood Elementary School. A young girl 16? was attacked that year in the field behind the school. It was written up to attempted rape and assult. I remember a guy grabbed her as she walked to or home from Kinney High School. She walked through the field between Walnutwood Elem. and Kinney H.S. daily. There was some speculation as to if the offender was in the construction trade as the area in that walnut/orchard field was just being developed to build new homes at the time.

There was a sketch but the guy was never caught.




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By Lorrainezip
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1 year ago
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Re: Schools
Posted By: Smitty2011
There is a Jesuit high school just off of fair oaks in RC. Formed in 1963 with 93 kids. All boys. Would a domineering mother send their troubled kid to an all boys school ? Worth a look as well.
Rape number #2 was a stones throw from Jesuit. It was a block from Jesuit and two blocks from Rio Americano.
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By guessting
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1 year ago
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Schools
Would Facebook be of any use Cordova High has numerous reunion / graduation pages on there from 1965 to 2011?
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By greg26011979
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1 year ago
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Re: Refocusing on Rancho Cordova
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Edited by greg26011979, 1 year ago
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By greg26011979
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Re: EAR 1974
Posted By: Lorrainezip

So I just found and read some of this message board about the EAR being in the Rancho Cordova area prior to 1976. In 1974, I was a six grader at Walnutwood Elementary School. A young girl 16? was attacked that year in the field behind the school. It was written up to attempted rape and assult. I remember a guy grabbed her as she walked to or home from Kinney High School. She walked through the field between Walnutwood Elem. and Kinney H.S. daily. There was some speculation as to if the offender was in the construction trade as the area in that walnut/orchard field was just being developed to build new homes at the time.

There was a sketch but the guy was never caught.





Thanks for posting, Lorraine!

The "construction trade" business has come up many times, in reference to the EAR. But sofar we cannot connect it to a specific company or person. Anything else you can remember, or if you can direct us to any relevant websites, would much appreciate.

It's interesting to me that you mentioned a school well to the east of where most of our focus has thusfar been centered.

Drifter
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Edited by Drifter, 1 year ago
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By Drifter
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Re: EAR 1974
Posted By: Lorrainezip

So I just found and read some of this message board about the EAR being in the Rancho Cordova area prior to 1976. In 1974, I was a six grader at Walnutwood Elementary School. A young girl 16? was attacked that year in the field behind the school. It was written up to attempted rape and assult. I remember a guy grabbed her as she walked to or home from Kinney High School. She walked through the field between Walnutwood Elem. and Kinney H.S. daily. There was some speculation as to if the offender was in the construction trade as the area in that walnut/orchard field was just being developed to build new homes at the time.

There was a sketch but the guy was never caught.




Lorrainezip,

If you could provide any more details about this incident, it would be worth taking a closer look at. Do you know approx. when this occurred in 1974? Do you know the month or day? You mention a composite sketch so I am assuming this made it into the papers?
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By Archangel76
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1 year ago
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Re: Schools
Posted By: greg26011979
Would Facebook be of any use Cordova High has numerous reunion / graduation pages on there from 1965 to 2011?
They would be of limited use only because they are not complete.
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By Archangel76
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Re: Re: Schools
Posted By: guessting
Posted By: Smitty2011
There is a Jesuit high school just off of fair oaks in RC. Formed in 1963 with 93 kids. All boys. Would a domineering mother send their troubled kid to an all boys school ? Worth a look as well.
Rape number #2 was a stones throw from Jesuit. It was a block from Jesuit and two blocks from Rio Americano.
FWIW, I spent four years in a Jesuit HS (not in CA). It was generally not a place where parents, single or otherwise, sent troubled kids. I know there are always exceptions, and maybe there were some bad seeds there (this would have been at the time of EAR), but I really can't recall any. It was a damn good school with generally damn good kids.
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By Warren
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1 year ago
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Re: Re: Re: Schools
Posted By: Warren
Posted By: guessting
Posted By: Smitty2011
There is a Jesuit high school just off of fair oaks in RC. Formed in 1963 with 93 kids. All boys. Would a domineering mother send their troubled kid to an all boys school ? Worth a look as well.
Rape number #2 was a stones throw from Jesuit. It was a block from Jesuit and two blocks from Rio Americano.
FWIW, I spent four years in a Jesuit HS (not in CA). It was generally not a place where parents, single or otherwise, sent troubled kids. I know there are always exceptions, and maybe there were some bad seeds there (this would have been at the time of EAR), but I really can't recall any. It was a damn good school with generally damn good kids.
Its worth considering that maybe EAR as a youth did not seem like a troubled kid. Maybe he came across as a quiet kid who kept to himself and no one could predict what he would later become. for example Paul Bernardo when he was young was known as a happy smiling kid and look what he grew up into
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By tintin
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1 year ago
49 Posts
Like I Said Before

I'd be checking the student body at McGeorge Law School as well. This guy knew too much about LE tactics and procedures to be fresh out of High School. And all the Community Colleges in the area.



And I think tintin is right about this guys appearance. I'm gonna guess that he was polite, easygoing, and unprepossessing to a fault until the mask went on. Look at the pics of guys like Ted Bundy. They don't wear signs.
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Edited by f1guyus, 1 year ago
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By f1guyus
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1 year ago
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Re: Refocusing on Rancho Cordova
He could be familiar with law enforcement tactics because he attended McGeorge Law school or maybe he just watched TV.
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By m13
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1 year ago
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[Drifter]

Registered Sex Offenders

This is an article about the Woolly Rapist. In the article are some important insights that have significance to the EAR investigation (both then and now). It lists how many sex offenders there were in Sacramento County (approx. 450), Sacramento City (593) and Yolo County (278) circa 1978.

That is over 1300 sexual offenders in and around Sacramento at the time of EAR. The average schmoe would assume that most (if not all) of these sexual offenders would have been checked out during the EAR investigation. I have seen nothing that would suggest that and I have not heard this from any of the retired investigators.

As mentioned in another post, Richard Hirschfield was never considered a suspect in the murder of Riggins/Gonsalves. Jack Jessup was never considered a suspect in the Woolly Rapist case. Disturbing because both men were parolees to the area and both men were convicted of crimes similar to the crimes they committed in Sacramento. I am not that bright and yet the obvious question that comes to mind is could this be the same with EAR?

Perhaps the most telling and disconcerting part of the article is right at the beginning:

"The Sacramento County Sheriff's Department knew convicted rapist Jack Allen Jessup was living in the Sacramento area but did not question him before his arrest in the "Woolly Rapist" case,

Sheriff Duane Lowe said Wednesday. Lowe said Jessup was just one of hundreds of individuals convicted of bizarre sex crimes living in the area.

There was no more reason to question him than there was to question hundreds of others."

Apply that information to the EAR investigation which was still very active in 1978. If the EAR was a convicted sex offender, according to Lowe, there would be no reason to even suspect him. This has happened in two high profile Sacramento cases. Jessup was convicted in the "Pillowcase Rapist" case in which up to 150 women were attacked and yet, he is not suspected in the Woolly Rapist case. A convicted serial rapist new to the area not suspected in a serial rape case. Hirschfield was a convicted rapist and not suspected in the Riggins/Gonsalves case. Does anyone else see a pattern here? In the words of Nancy Grace: "Hello???"



Woolly Rapist




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By Archangel76
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Random Related Thoughts

Random Thought 1: Don Richard's prime suspect attended group therapy sessions with Jessup while they served time together. Richard's suspect was a sex offender paroled to the Sacramento area as well and that is why Richard's began to suspect him. There was supposedly a similarity in what the Woolly Rapist did and in what the EAR did but I forget what it was. I'll go through my notes when I have time and post it if I find it. But that similarity is what caused Richards to think that the EAR and the Woolly Rapist knew each other.

Random Thought 2: While there has been the thought that the EAR is the pillar of success somewhere, most of these rapist/killers, while highly intelligent, turn out to be dirtbag underachievers. Bundy comes to mind. Simonis comes to mind. There are exceptions to the rule. I do not know how intelligent either Hirschfield or Jessup were (in terms of IQ) but they were underachievers as well.

Random Thought 3: It is possible that the reason the EAR was taking great care to keep his face covered and not leave any fingerprints behind is because investigators already had his mugshots and fingerprints on file. The EAR leaving the Sacramento area after being seen without his mask on seemed unnecessary UNLESS he was worried about the witness picking him out of a photo lineup of mugshots of paroled offenders.

Random Thought 4: I wonder how Jessup was caught in the Pillowcase Rapist case?

Random Thought 5: The EAR was a mature serial offender in 1976. He was not at the beginning of his crimes. Which suggests that there is another series of crimes committed by this individual. It might be Visalia. It might be some other series that we've never heard of like the Pillowcase Rapist. It might be just one or two offenses somewhere else like Hirschfield. Long story short, there are other crimes committed by the EAR prior to 1976. It took Jessup less than 6 months to start raping again.
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Juvenile Offending

I like Random Thought #3 Arch. Personally, I like the idea of EAR being a convicted juvenile offender, learning from his mistake, and then taking great(er) care in future knowing he would face more severe consequences. Given the sheer frequency of his offending, and the risk-taking, the odds must be he did slip up at some stage — probably very early in his criminal career.

Tell me something if you know. In those days in California, did the courts commit juvenile offenders to psychiatric treatment as part of their bail conditions? According to Sudden Terror, we have a phone call which does sound (to me, anyway) like the EAR. He lets slip about a stint in the Stockton State Hospital. If he did spend time in that particular psychiatric hospital, could it have been imposed on him by the courts for some offence he may have committed as a minor?

The reason I ask is that there might have been a newspaper article we could find about such a case. It's a long shot. There's no hope otherwise (and nor should there be) of us ever getting the names of individuals who spent time in the hospital.
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Re: Registered Sex Offenders

Toward the objective of identifying the EAR, a methodical examination of registered sex offenders in the Sac area during the relavant time period certainly couldn't hurt anything. At this late date, it's probably the best, most direct approach an investigator could take, as I assume those 1300 people are all identified by name and address. Don't know how you would go about matching EAR's DNA to those 1300 offenders. But whatever the process, by all means proceed.

Just realize that the EAR is a unique individual who cannot be directly compared to Hirschfield or Jessup or any other caught criminal. Most posters make such a comparison at some point; but it's a false assumption. There are no guarantees that the EAR/ONS ever had a police record.

I guess we all better hope that he did.

Good luck.




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Not sure

Tell me something if you know. In those days in California, did the courts commit juvenile offenders to psychiatric treatment as part of their bail conditions?

That would be something to look into.
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Re: Re: Registered Sex Offenders
Posted By: Drifter

Toward the objective of identifying the EAR, a methodical examination of registered sex offenders in the Sac area during the relavant time period certainly couldn't hurt anything. At this late date, it's probably the best, most direct approach an investigator could take, as I assume those 1300 people are all identified by name and address. Don't know how you would go about matching EAR's DNA to those 1300 offenders. But whatever the process, by all means proceed.

Just realize that the EAR is a unique individual who cannot be directly compared to Hirschfield or Jessup or any other caught criminal. Most posters make such a comparison at some point; but it's a false assumption. There are no guarantees that the EAR/ONS ever had a police record.

I guess we all better hope that he did.

Good luck.





In 1978, our understanding of serial offenders was close to nil. Just Sheriff Lowes' statement alone shows a complete lack of understanding of the nature of serial offenders insofar as recidivism. The people who should have been looked at first in the EAR investigation are being looked at last. The lesson of Jack Jessup should have weighed heavily on investigators.

Of course, by the time Jessup was arrested, the EAR had dropped off the radar and would show up in Contra Costa County a month or two later. And as far as Sacramento was concerned, the EAR was now CCC's problem. They did form an EAR Task Force with CCC and continued to investigate the crimes but Sacramento was EAR'd out.

Det. Crompton says that registered sex offenders were investigated but there were some on the list that could not be found and eliminated. That list was destroyed when CCC began "purging" old case files. The statute of limitations ran on the EAR crimes at that point. Det. Crompton stopped CCC from destroying all of the EAR case files and OC got what was left when the DNA connection was made.

I am certain that either the DOJ or the Prison Parole Board still has documentation of paroled offenders. It would not take much to go through that list and pare it down to a manageable few. First, anyone that does not meet the physical description of the EAR/ONS is removed from the list (this includes whatever insights were provided by the DNA analysis). Next, any registered sex offender is required by law to provide investigators with a DNA sample. All those who have already met that requirement is removed from the list.

There are those registered sex offenders who for one reason or another do not have their DNA profile in CODIS. I know that Don Richard's suspect had moved from the area and did not provide a DNA sample to law enforcement when he moved. Investigators had to obtain a sample from him to clear him. Very obviously, investigators would be looking for anyone left on that list whose DNA profile is not already in CODIS.

It is a matter of being methodical in the approach and leaving nothing to chance. Start with the most obvious suspects (ie registered sex offenders) and then work your way to the least obvious suspects.

If the EAR has no police record at all, he would be among the first of high profile sex offenders. The odds are he has a past record. Taking the EAR's median age of 25 in 1976, his paraphilic behaviour began in his teens. It is most likely for prowling and peeping, maybe indecent exposure. Probably burglary. I am only guessing that he had at least one rape or rape attempt. Something along the line of Hirschfield. (If he is the Ransacker, then he wasn't nailed for that attempt but he would have a record preceeding the Ransacker cases).

Somewhere the EAR "learned" to not show his face and leave fingerprints. While the EAR was unique, he was lucky more than he was smart. It is just that the investigators were not as smart as he was and they were unprepared for an intelligent and (sometimes) organized serial offender. So far, none of us have proven to be as smart as he was.
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Thief Committed to Stockton State Hospital

I ran a quick search. Here's a newspaper article along the lines of what I was describing. It refers to a young man who has carried out a burglary in 1972 and has been captured and committed to the SSH for evaluation (in this case the man was committed by his relatives, not the courts, but that hardly matters). To be clear, I do not allege that this individual is the EAR.

news.google.com/newspapers?id=veUzAAAAIBAJ&sjid=qTIHAAAAIBAJ&dq=stockton%20state%20hospital%20court&pg=4948%2C579074

It wouldn't surprise me if the EAR has experienced a very similar process (arrest, psych evaluation in SSH, short period of jail / detention, release back into the community).
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Mentally Competent

California Penal Code 1370(B), that covers mental competency has been around "forever".


In 1973, then Governor of California, Ronald Reagan began his "10 year plan" to phase out public Mental Hospitals.

Ya never know who slipped through the cracks
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Re: Thief Committed to Stockton State Hospital
Posted By: aus_sherlock_holmes

I ran a quick search. Here's a newspaper article along the lines of what I was describing. It refers to a young man who has carried out a burglary in 1972 and has been captured and committed to the SSH for evaluation (in this case the man was committed by his relatives, not the courts, but that hardly matters). To be clear, I do not allege that this individual is the EAR.

news.google.com/newspapers?id=veUzAAAAIBAJ&sjid=qTIHAAAAIBAJ&dq=stockton%20state%20hospital%20court&pg=4948%2C579074

It wouldn't surprise me if the EAR has experienced a very similar process (arrest, psych evaluation in SSH, short period of jail / detention, release back into the community).
Thanks for posting the link. It is something worth seriously considering and looking into. Backtracking and trying to find the EAR's trail prior to June 1976 seems to be the way to go about this. SSH, paroled sex offenders, ex-burglars, etc.
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Registered Sex Offenders

I think there is a strong possibility that EAR was aregistered sex offender or had some other kind of crminal Background. Most likely as a thief, burglar, peeping tom. The way EAR operated when he emerged in Sacramento for his first (known) attacks.... these attacks show so much criminal ernergy, there must have been past criminal experience. Hot prowl burglaries and home invasion attacks are the least likely sort of offences to start with! So registered sex offenders and paroled criminals would be my first choice of persons to look at.

What makes my so violently sick about this case: i believe that there were people out there in the time he was offending who actually KNEW WHO HE WAS AND WHAT HE WAS DOING! A parent ("mommy"), a brother, a friend or relative... someone must have known who EAR was. And these persons remained silent all the time. What kind of Person would protect such a monster? And kept their lips shut while he was offending on and on... Who could live on with this knowledge?
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Re: Registered Sex Offenders
One of the things that concerned me about Koba1879, was that he said he would 'marry' Tom Cruise, and he would not ask for a prenup. Also, he said some other really bizarre things.
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Re: Registered Sex Offenders
I hate to think it but I sometimes wonder if the people that could have known something important chose not to take action when they had the chance, giving earons all the power. He won't ever be caught unless the people that know something important can overcome fear. Everyone that knows anything needs to come forward.
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Re: Mentally Competent
Posted By: hdmi

California Penal Code 1370(B), that covers mental competency has been around "forever".


In 1973, then Governor of California, Ronald Reagan began his "10 year plan" to phase out public Mental Hospitals.

Ya never know who slipped through the cracks
HDM1 and Aus- Stockton State Hospital was home in the 1970's to a special treatment program for teens including schizophrenics- for example a teen who killed her step-father. It was also home to a methadone program for heroin addicts. How did EAR know about Stockton State Hospital unless he lived in Stockton, was in a program or worked there?
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how do you
know he knew about Stockton State hospital Port?
I think without a shadow of doubt that EAR had a criminal record.Probably for some kind of voyeurism.Someone will have mentioned his name during the investigation.I think that is one of the reasons he was careful not to leave fingerprints.
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Re: Re: Registered Sex Offenders
Posted By: Grundle
I hate to think it but I sometimes wonder if the people that could have known something important chose not to take action when they had the chance, giving earons all the power. He won't ever be caught unless the people that know something important can overcome fear. Everyone that knows anything needs to come forward.

Grundle,

I have a "working theory" (based on my current suspect) which posits not only did "someone" know who the EAR was, this person in the know threatened to expose him unless he stopped. The EAR then switched to Southern CA and purposely disassociated the SoCal crimes from the NorCal EAR crimes so that the person who knew of his alter-ego would not know that he was still offending.

Again, it's just a working theory and pertains only to my current suspect who was living in the Sacramento area while the EAR/ONS was committing crimes in SoCal. The infrequency of the SoCal crimes (as compared to the NorCal crimes) makes it a plausible theory. Time will tell if there is anything to it.
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Re: Registered Sex Offenders

Is a methodical examination of Sac area registered sex offenders in progress ... now (in 2012)?

Or, is it something you think needs to be done?

You mentioned that "Det. Crompton says that registered sex offenders were investigated". Sounds like some in LE are not entirely convinced of the need, so I gather that said research is not ongoing. Or did I misinterpret your above comments?






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Re: how do you
Posted By: briffyboy
know he knew about Stockton State hospital Port?
I think without a shadow of doubt that EAR had a criminal record.Probably for some kind of voyeurism.Someone will have mentioned his name during the investigation.I think that is one of the reasons he was careful not to leave fingerprints.
The EAR made a phone call to a counselling service and told the person who answered the phone that he had been in SSH. He also said, "I shouldn't really tell you that". That last statement suggests that somewhere there is a newspaper article about him being committed to SSH. He may have been committed to SSH by the courts or by family. I believe that newspaper article is the key to solving the case.
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Patton State Hospital
He may have been telling part of the truth. Patton State, in SoCal is probably closer to the truth.
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Re: Re: Registered Sex Offenders
Posted By: Drifter

Is a methodical examination of Sac area registered sex offenders in progress ... now (in 2012)?

Or, is it something you think needs to be done?

You mentioned that "Det. Crompton says that registered sex offenders were investigated". Sounds like some in LE are not entirely convinced of the need, so I gather that said research is not ongoing. Or did I misinterpret your above comments?







There is no methodical examination of Sacramento area registered sex offenders either now or then. Based on both Jessup and Hirschfield, it is something that should have been done and still needs to be done. The problem now is that list of paroled sex offenders probably no longer exists.

Det. Crompton was aware of such a list and his recollection is that the sex offenders were "looked at" but there were some on the list who could not be cleared. The methods of clearing suspects in the late 1970's and early 1980's are substantially different when compared to the current methods. So ALL of the sex offenders on that list (should it ever turn up) need to be re-cleared just as ALL of the original EAR suspects were re-investigated and cleared via DNA test (when necessary).

So it is not that LE is not entirely convinced of the need. There is no efficient way of reconstituting the list of paroled sex offenders. I have been doing my own research on the subject and I am independently reaching the same conclusion.

Just this quote from the High-Risk Sex Offender Task Force Report should give you an idea of just how daunting an endeavor this is:

1 There are more than 50,000 individuals required to register as sex offenders in the State of California who are not under supervision by any state or local jurisdiction. An additional unknown number of sex offenders are on probation and under supervision by other departments such as the Department of Mental Health (DMH). DMH has responsibility under the law for the treatment and supervision of sexually violent predators.

It is not going to be easy going back 30 years to reconstitute the list of sex offenders and then attempt to track them all down and clear them via DNA. However, that is what I feel needs to be done in order for this case to progress toward a resolution. As you can see from the quote, not all sex offenders were under the auspices of the Prison Release Board and why some are looking at the Stockton State Hospital.

This is the link to the full report on the High Risk Sex Offenders Task Force:


www.cdcr.ca.gov/Parole/Sex_Offender_Facts/docs_SOMB/HRSO_taskForce.pdf
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Re: Re: Registered Sex Offenders
Posted By: Grundle
One of the things that concerned me about Koba1879, was that he said he would 'marry' Tom Cruise, and he would not ask for a prenup. Also, he said some other really bizarre things.
you really are obsessed with me eh, lol!!!!!
for what its worth tom thinks you are soo stoopid
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By Koba1879
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6 months ago
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Report: California Prisoners 1974-75

I found this report on-line:

www.cdcr.ca.gov/reports_research/offender_information_services_branch/Annual/CalPris/CALPRISd1974_75.pdf


It provides some stats on the California Prison population as well as parolees at the time. I will continue to dig until I find out which convicts were paroled to the Sacramento area between 1973 and 1976 (starting with 1976 and working backwards). Every paroled sex offender and burglar in that time period needs to be checked out and cleared, IMO.
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By Archangel76
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6 months ago
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[Drifter]

Request for more info on the Visalia Ransacker

My first question is if a car was ever used by the Visalia Ransacker in any of his crimes. If not , I wonder if that indicates a younger age. Someone who does not have a driver's license yet or have access to a car yet.

In Chapter One of Sudden Terror prior to the first attack of June 18, 1976, in Rancho Cordova, a suspicious car was spotted, an older, dark, medium-sized American car.

Second question/request: Has a psychological profile been developed on the VR and if so can someone share it here. I wonder if it matches the profile of the EAR/ONS.

I feel Visalia can be so important to solving the case due to it being a much smaller town and due to the possibility the VR would have made more mistakes in his first crimes and being younger.

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By Sandia
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2 years ago
1382 Posts
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Evans ditch
VR was known by local LE to use Evans ditch to travel unnoticed from different ransacking comfort zones, most likely thru Houk park and Royal Oaks school and Rotary park and Divisadero jr. high. I believe he started using Evans ditch to avoid bullies while attending Divisadero or as a short-cut home.I believe he learned to used Evans ditch as a place peek into back yards and later to scout out ransacking.Evans ditch is usually dry in the fall and winter months.
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By tikiliki
Member
2 years ago
11 Posts
Re: Request for more info on the Visalia Ransacker
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Edited by tikiliki, 2 years ago
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By tikiliki
Member
2 years ago
11 Posts
Tikiliki
You are correct about the ditch being used SOMETIMES, but I don't think always. I lived near the Royal Oaks and I remember the dogs going wild, and a friend who had a police scanner would call and tell me that the police were on their way.
Anyone from Visalia, do you remember if the new freeway 198 was completed by 1975? I remember Verde Vista and Linda Vista opening up to 198 when I was in high school, but I can't remember when they dug out the freeway.
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By dengas
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2 years ago
966 Posts
dengas
I believe VR would enter Evans ditch near Walnut and County Center and exit at Royal Oaks or Divisadero schools.
198 original dig from Ben Maddox to Mooney was completed about 1965 with major intersections at County Center , Demaree , Chinowth and Akers . TIKI
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By tikiliki
Member
2 years ago
11 Posts
He may have exited further east...around Watson.
The night of 11/30/74 had activity just east of Watson and south of Tulare Avenue. Thanks for the info on 198; I know that my grandmother moved into one of the houses on Noble Avenue when they tore her house up (exactly where the Vintage Press is today) and it seemed that most of the work was completed on the freeway.
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By dengas
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2 years ago
966 Posts

[Drifter]

Residence
For those of you who don't know the Ray residence in Redding and the Cruz Residence are identical . The brickwork, the color, the landscapeing.

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By stalkersnightmare
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3 years ago
24 Posts



Did you know both of them?
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By thelostsock
Member
3 years ago
229 Posts
Ray Residence?
Can you elaborate on the Ray's residence? Are you trying to tie in the stolen bike from Redding angle?
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By conquistador1521
Member
3 years ago
388 Posts
Contractor?

Were they built by the same contractor, or laborers?
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By Hercule Poirnot
Member
3 years ago
92 Posts
Answers

No I do not know them, I was refuring to the outside appearance only there is a picture of the cruz house on the web site and I had a drive by the Ray house It appeared to be identical to the pic. of the cruz house.
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By stalkersnightmare
Member
2 years ago
24 Posts
??
it took you 4 months to respond to this question?
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By tad
Member
2 years ago
102 Posts
VR
could of been living ..in linsay..sangar..dinuba..or even lodi?.
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By fumanchuc
Member
2 years ago
138 Posts
I've posted about this before.
With the exception of possibly East Sac/Rancho Cordova this guy didn't live where he offended. I don't think he lived in Visalia either. Too many small towns nearby. Like one of the Sac Cops said, all he needed was five minutes to be far enough away to fade into the crowd.
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By f1guyus
Member
2 years ago
1270 Posts
...
if he is clever enough to leave no traces..apart from dna which he was more than likely not aware of..im sure he would not be stupid enough to @*^: on his doorstep.
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By fumanchuc
Member
2 years ago
138 Posts
The East Area Rapist Lived Somewhere Near Where He Attacked Between 1976 -1978

The East Area Rapist was crazy enough... brazen enough... willing
enough... stupid enough... and/or lucky enough..... to continually
attack in such a specific geo-targeted area for years.....

........ and get away with it......

When the theory of him actually living where he attacked, or at
least close to where he attacked, comes up.... some think that is
highly unlikely.....

Not just unlikely.... but "highly unlikely".....

Why?

Because he was....... all of a sudden.... what? afraid? of what?
getting caught?

Attacking in the same general area for years made him
feel safe.... but perhaps living where he attacked, or very near
where he attacked, didn't??

He had it in him to offend in a specific region he knew would have
an INTENSE amount of Law Enforcement activity for years... but
he didn't have it in him to live right there in the center of all that
activity? or at least VERY near it???

Mr. EAR-ONS had it in him to "stick it to the man" with his repeat
offenses in the same area for years on end....

Well... wouldn't the ultimate "F-ck You" to Law Enforcement be
living right smack dab in the middle of all those rapes???

Isn't that worth considering? and if not... why not???

A very logical, a very rational, a very probable case can be made that
Mr. EAR-ONS most DEFINITELY lived close to where he attacked... at
least when he first got started... when he was The East Area Rapist...
using the premise that he was "afraid" to live where he attacked because
"one does not attack in one's own backyard" never really made that much
sense to me considering the nature of the crimes...

The evidence will speak to many people differently... that's the way it
spoke to me...... but I could be wrong.... I admit that...

I hope the real name of this rapist/killer is on that 4000 - 5000 list of names
and someone can somehow look through that list..... and make a connection...
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By AaronTimones
Member
2 years ago
1103 Posts
AT
Right you are. He lived right where he offended in East Sac. After that he never did. That's why he was 2 or 3 and out everywhere else. This is why people are suspicious about LE involvement in this case. I mean even Zodiac spread it around. EAR claimed 15 victims in the Sac Sheriffs jurisdiction and they didn't get a whiff of who he was? Knowing that it's true doesn't make it any easier to accept.
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By f1guyus
Member
2 years ago
1270 Posts
Didn't live where he offended

Perhaps the point being missed here is that, after the EAR reign ceased, he did not commit another crime that was linked to any other until 2001 or 2002, when all the Southern CA homicides were linked, and then linked to the EAR. I would guess that he did not live in all of the places he offended—Goleta, Ventura, Irvine, Dana Point—but I'll bet he lived in Orange County, and probably Irvine. His awareness of the unapprehended Bedroom Basher and the prosecution of Joe Alsip likely reassured his sense of invisibility.

My guess is, he had family or friends in Goleta and stayed there periodically, and lived in Irvine in fairly close proximity to the Cruz and Witthuhn residences. Colin Pitchfork was not arrested until September of 1987, marking the first time in history that human DNA would be used to apprehend a murderer. The EAR-ONS couldn't have anticipated, at the time of any of his known crimes, that the semen he left behind would be used to link any of his crimes or ultimately identify him.

(And when he did ultimately realize this, do you think he continued raping/murdering, only altering his M.O. to conceal the victims' bodies? This isn't a new question, but certainly an enduring one.)
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By SpeakelOfEngrish
Member
2 years ago
1090 Posts
Re: AT
Posted By: f1guyus
Right you are. He lived right where he offended in East Sac. After that he never did. That's why he was 2 or 3 and out everywhere else. This is why people are suspicious about LE involvement in this case. I mean even Zodiac spread it around. EAR claimed 15 victims in the Sac Sheriffs jurisdiction and they didn't get a whiff of who he was? Knowing that it's true doesn't make it any easier to accept.

Hey, Mr. f1guyus, sir.

What do you think about that connection? that Law Enforcement connection? what
is your personal opinion on that, sir?

Thanks.

Aaron
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By AaronTimones
Member
2 years ago
1103 Posts
...
The East Area Rapist was crazy enough... brazen enough... willing
enough... stupid enough... and/or lucky enough..... to continually attack in such a specific geo-targeted area for years..... maybe he was not that bold..whatever the profilers, experts or LE say..maybe he just drove into town..drove out and slipped the net.
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By fumanchuc
Member
2 years ago
138 Posts
...

Mr. fumanchuc said the following:

maybe he was not that bold..whatever the profilers, experts or LE say..maybe he just drove into town..drove out and slipped the net.


Maybe. Maybe not.


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By AaronTimones
Member
2 years ago
1103 Posts
LE connection
My opinion is that I don't have an opinion. I don't know. But in previous posts I've recounted the rumors that went around Stockton and the fact that the Grim Sleeper worked in the police garage in LA. And that Carol Daly said something like "It's almost like he knows what we are going to do next." And that the EAR profile said he may have had LE or MP training. And that Santa Cruz serial killer Edward Kemper hung out with LE and when he called to confess killing his mother the cops didn't believe him at first. We'll know if and when EARONS is caught and questioned. And boy would I like to be a fly on the wall during that questioning.
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By f1guyus
Member
2 years ago
1270 Posts
That WOULD be interesting ...

However Mr. EAR/ONS will probably lawyer up, and they will be very high priced lawyers too.
I bet his comments or poems will shed more light on his personality.

The trial(s) will be interesting, I have decided that I will attend if at all possible.
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By caseprofiler
Member
2 years ago
235 Posts
I've Got a Feeling

I've got a feeling that if and when EAR is identified and arrested he's going to talk his head off. And every word he says will be about how much smarter and cooler and better he is than all you squares. And how he outwitted and outmanovered law enforcement all those years. And if it wasn't for that pesky DNA he'd still be loose. He won't be able to help himself. I hope I live long enough (and the cops aren't too embarrassed) to read the transcript, or see the interrigation video. BTW I like the idea of going to the trial. Maybe that's where we could all meet. Or at least those of us living close enough. The rest of us could videoconference. That would be cool.
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By f1guyus
Member
2 years ago
1270 Posts
Re: I've Got a Feeling
Posted By: f1guyus
I've got a feeling that if and when EAR is identified and arrested he's going to talk his head off. And every word he says will be about how much smarter and cooler and better he is than all you squares. And how he outwitted and outmanovered law enforcement all those years. And if it wasn't for that pesky DNA he'd still be loose. He won't be able to help himself. I hope I live long enough (and the cops aren't too embarrassed) to read the transcript, or see the interrigation video.
Hey, Mr. f1guyus, sir.

I think you are 100% correct in what you say, sir. 100%.

He'll probably talk and talk and talk... like Mr. Joel Rifkin.... as opposed to
Mr. Russell Williams....

I don't know if you saw Mr. Williams' interview/confession on YouTube?

But most of it was just spent with him sitting in a chair... folded arms... and
not saying anything... and "worrying about how his wife was going to take it."
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By AaronTimones
Member
2 years ago
1103 Posts
Re: I've Got a Feeling
Posted By: f1guyus

I've got a feeling that if and when EAR is identified and arrested he's going to talk his head off. And every word he says will be about how much smarter and cooler and better he is than all you squares. And how he outwitted and outmanovered law enforcement all those years. And if it wasn't for that pesky DNA he'd still be loose. He won't be able to help himself. I hope I live long enough (and the cops aren't too embarrassed) to read the transcript, or see the interrigation video. BTW I like the idea of going to the trial. Maybe that's where we could all meet. Or at least those of us living close enough. The rest of us could videoconference. That would be cool.
The trial should be aired ..as OJ Simpson's was.
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By Miracles
Member
2 years ago
133 Posts
Never or more than once
I expect that he has never married or if he ever did it was more than one time. I feel that he is still alive and it was his health that brought his crimes to a stop. If he injured one of his legs, knees or feet that would sure end his running, biking, jumping career!
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By JaneDoe
Member
2 years ago
366 Posts

[Drifter]

Reverse Engineering

Every time a creep like Richard Hirschfield is caught via CODIS, I step back and ask "how could he have been identified without DNA?" This is especially useful in the cases where the investigators are surprised by the DNA match (as in the case of Hirschfield). I asked a similar question when it was revealed that Jack Jessup was not among the list of suspects in the Woolly Rapist case.

Clearly, Hirschfield should have been on the list of suspects in the Riggins/Gonsalves case. And he was not. Clearly, Jessup should have been on the list of the suspects in the Woolly Rapist case. And he was not. Do you see a pattern developing here? Drifter points out that there has not been resolution in the EAR/ONS case for over 30 years.

Looking at these two cases (and other similar cases) provides some insight as to why. It is because investigators were not looking in the right places for their suspects. Both Hirschfield and Jessup could have been placed on their respective suspect lists by simply looking at paroled offenders. Both of these men had criminal pasts that were similar enough that they should have been identified and looked at.

I do not know who first said it, but "the best predictor of future behavior is past behavior". Apparently, this is even more so with criminal offenders.

"The best predictor of criminal behavior is a history of criminal behavior, and past violence will suggest a probability of future violence. A history of criminal behavior is the best predictor of criminal recidivism regardless of whether the offender is mentally disordered or normal (Bronta, Law and Hanson, 1998)....Furthermore, the more frequently the behavior as occurred in a variety of situations, the more accurate will be the predictions. Someone who frequently manifests violence across many different situations will be far easier to predict than a person who is only occasionally violent in some situations."

So, here are some random thoughts regarding this. First, I wonder how far back have investigators tracked the EAR's "bizarre burglaries" in Sacto. Apparently, they simply "appear" in Sacramento around 1976. The fact that investigators believe that the Visalia Ransacker is also the EAR testifies to this (the idea that the EAR's trail is not any earlier than 1976 in Sacto). If the EAR/ONS is also the Visalia Ransacker, then the next question I would ask is where was he before Visalia? He "appears" in Visalia as well.

I am still not sold on the EAR/ONS also being the Visalia Ransacker but at least we know that investigators are exhausting that angle while some us of "outside the box" (on that issue) are looking elsewhere. I am of the opinion that if the EAR/ONS was a paroled sex offender, then (like Hirschfield) he was in prison somewhere in 1974-75 and paroled (back?) to the Sacramento area.

If I am correct about the EAR's age in 1976 (25 to 30 as opposed to 18 to 25) then he has a past. The EAR profiles suggest this as well. This means (to me) that the EAR has a past criminal record and his name can be found by looking there and finding out EVERYONE who was paroled to the Sacramento area from 1976 on back. There seems to be an incubation period and these mature sex offenders seem to strike away from where they actually reside. Hirschfield kidnapped Riggins/Gonsalves somewhere in or near Davis (I think) and the Woolly Rapist was paroled to West Sacto while offending in Sacramento. This is food for thought while attempting to look in the areas where the EAR offended. Only a fool would commit crimes near where they actually lived and the EAR was no fool. He might strike where he used to live or near where he worked (or near where friends lived).

Another thought that I had about past behavior is Contra Costa County. The investigators did such a thorough canvass in CCC, going way past the normal canvass boundaries, and the EAR's name still didn't turn up. The EAR was sophisticated enough at that point to not leave a paper trail for investigators to follow.

I believe that this pattern will remain consistent all the way to Southern CA. I do not think that investigators will ever find his name in any Southern CA investigation or by datamining. The only exception would be Irvine but even then, if it turns up at all, it would turn up post 1986. There is circumstantial evidence that the EAR was in Sacramento in that gap period. So he either returned to the Sacramento area (as he did on 3/20/79) or he never left the area.

Incidentally, Drifter's "EAR in a van" theory might come into play here. It is possible that the EAR was living in his van while in CCC and SoCal. Didn't Blinkyred see a van at one of the homes in the housing construction areas? I do think that his family in Sacramento (or Goleta) will be found via datamining. He most likely used Mama EAR's address while in Sacramento and most likely stayed with her while on parole (if the EAR was a convicted offender).

It should be apparent to everyone now that a CODIS "cold hit" is unlikely at this point. I still hold out hope for a partial match should one the the EAR/ONS' family members end up in the penal system. So the more difficult questions are how do we identify the EAR/ONs without DNA? The reverse engineering of other cases provides some answers.

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By Archangel76
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7 months ago
2156 Posts


Re: Re: Re: Re: Reverse Engineering
Posted By: Archangel76
Posted By: ZForce
Posted By: ons
they are confirmed how ? they only hearing a guy whispering lol
You raise a good point. Prank phone calls were common place in the days preceding caller ID and *69. Isn't it possible that a prank phone caller just happened to call a former rape victim, which in turn naturally made the victim instantly fearful it was her attacker? He doesn't also necessarily need to live in Sac to make sparse prank phone calls either.
Are you familiar at all with the EAR/ONS case? If not, there is a lot of case information out there available for you to educate yourself.
You "called ZForce out" because he simply said "you raise a good point". Yeah it's hard to take a user named ONS seriously but I don't think ZForce was taking sides, I think he simply said "you raise a good point". People on here claim to have "facts" on this case but for some reason choose not to post the so-called facts. I don't care how long some of you have been "researching" this case, it doesn't mean you're "the go to member of this board". In fact for those of you senior members that have been trying to solve this case you've gotten no further than us "newbies".

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By TheBadge
Member
7 months ago
99 Posts

Good Point?

TB,

If you know the background on the recorded phone call as well as ALL of the phone calls that the EAR made to his PC261 victims, you would realize that "ons" was not making a good point. Hence my reply to ZForce. When us "senior members" first started out, we had far less case information available to us then you "newbies". So, there is no excuse for ignorance regarding case facts such as the phone calls (unless one has just stumbled on this board and is ignorant about the case in general and is trying to get up to speed).

If there is anyone out there who does not know the background of the recorded phone call (as well as ALL of the phone calls purportedly made by the EAR) I suggest getting a copy of "Sudden Terror" and reading it. It is currently the definitive "must read" primer on the case.

RE: "ons" - I am disputing that "ons'" was even making a point but was rather making his/her usual derisive and insincere comments. His/her post suggest that he/she is bored and comes on here to be a thorn in the side of the people here who take this case seriously. With post such as this:

Re: If you had to put 1 million dollars on the line where would you say the EAR/ONS is today

Under your Bed.

To egg on "ons" by referring to his/her mocking comment as a "good point" will only invite more derisive, insincere comments that distract from the honest debate and discourse here. With the information widely available, one should be able to quickly figure out that "ons'" post regarding the recorded phone call a) was not serious and b) was not a valid point given what we know about the recorded phone call. That is the call that we have the most information about and was recorded because the EAR called his victims on multiple occasions and that is why investigators provided the victims with the means to record phone calls.

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By Archangel76
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7 months ago
2156 Posts

"So-Called Facts"

People on here claim to have "facts" on this case but for some reason choose not to post the so-called facts. I don't care how long some of you have been "researching" this case, it doesn't mean you're "the go to member of this board".

The information that we cannot post is A) confidential and B) could jeopardize our relationship with the confidential sources. C) could jeopardize the investigation D) pertains to witnesses and victims in the case as well as suspects who deserve the presumption of innocence.

Are you suggesting that we jeopardize our relationships with confidential sources, jeopardize the investigation, and jeopardize the lives of witnesses, victims and suspects?

In fact for those of you senior members that have been trying to solve this case you've gotten no further than us "newbies".

Each suspect cleared is progress in this case and puts us one suspect closer to identifying the EAR/ONS. How many suspects have you cleared?

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By Archangel76
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7 months ago
2156 Posts

Phone Calls
I keep a copy of ST on hand but I don't recall a lot of phone calls being made from '82-'85, which is when the recorded phone call occurred. Point being there's no way to definitively say the 1982 phone call was EAR and if it was him it doesn't matter where the call originated because it only puts him in that place for a specific moment in time. As I mentioned earlier, I'm out of the loop on a lot of the other circumstantial evidence being discussed on the board regarding his whereabouts during the missing years. 222urit's story is one of the more compelling ones because it was extensive over multiple years....but sounds more like VR than EAR. If there are similar stories from locales such as Sac, Contra Costa, Goleta, Ventura, or Irvine during the missing years I'd be just as interested...but so far all I've heard of is the 1982 phone call, which is pretty flimsy evidence on its own when one factors in just how prominent prank phone calls were in those days to begin with.

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By ZForce
Member
7 months ago
503 Posts

Re: Phone Calls
Posted By: ZForce
I keep a copy of ST on hand but I don't recall a lot of phone calls being made from '82-'85, which is when the recorded phone call occurred. Point being there's no way to definitively say the 1982 phone call was EAR and if it was him it doesn't matter where the call originated because it only puts him in that place for a specific moment in time. As I mentioned earlier, I'm out of the loop on a lot of the other circumstantial evidence being discussed on the board regarding his whereabouts during the missing years. 222urit's story is one of the more compelling ones because it was extensive over multiple years....but sounds more like VR than EAR. If there are similar stories from locales such as Sac, Contra Costa, Goleta, Ventura, or Irvine during the missing years I'd be just as interested...but so far all I've heard of is the 1982 phone call, which is pretty flimsy evidence on its own when one factors in just how prominent prank phone calls were in those days to begin with.

The recorded phone call occurred on January 2, 1978. From "Sudden Terror" page 307-308:

That evening as she absently sat in front of the television, the phone
beside her rang. She automatically pushed the record button on her
tape recorder and picked up the phone as she had been doing for the
past two weeks.
“Hello?” she answered.
“Is Ray there?” the male voice asked.
“Pardon?”
“Is Ray there?”
“I’m sorry, you must have the wrong number.”
“Sorry,” The caller hung up and Carey clicked off the recorder.
Fifteen minutes later the phone rang again.
“Hello?” she answered as she turned on the recorder.
“Hi, Carey,” a friend, and she turned off the recorder to continue
the conversation.
The scenario repeated itself several times into the early evening.
“Hello?” Once more Carey went through the ritual. Silence.
LARRY CROMPTON SUDDEN TERROR
308
“Hello?” she repeated as the silence stretched, and then the deep
breathing began. Eight times she heard the exhale. Her heart pounded
and she resisted the powerful urge to slam the receiver down. “Keep
him on the line,” she remembered Stone telling her should she receive
a call.
“Gonna kill you....Gonna kill-l-l you...Gonna kill-l-l-l-l-l you,” the
male voice whispered. “*...*...*...*...*,” the whisper
continued as the caller emphasized the “tch.” “Fuckin’ whore.”
Dead silence and then, click, click, click of the phone button and then
the phone went dead.
Carey Frank dropped the phone onto the floor and recoiled from it
as if it were a viper about ready to strike. Her father entered the room as
her sobs began, at first shallow breaths and then heart wrenching cries
from deep within her stomach.
“Carey? What’s the matter?” her father asked as he took her into his
arms.
“Dad. It was him. It was the rapist. Just like Sergeant Stone warned
me. Oh, Dad, he said he was going to kill me,” she managed to tell him
through sobs.

Do I really need to say anymore?

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Edited by Archangel76, 7 months ago

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By Archangel76
Member
7 months ago
2156 Posts

Sorry
I was under the impression the victim was attacked in 1978 and later recorded the phone call in 1982 based on another convo I had here on the board. Will re-read.

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By ZForce
Member
7 months ago
503 Posts

[Drifter]

"SAC Trained Killers"

This is the 320th SPS unit patch most likely worn by the Maggiores' killer. The other one posted is known as a "subdued" unit patch and is usually worn in war zones. I had to post the "subdued" version because I couldn't find the regular one. Someone finally posted a regular unit patch.

320thUnitPatch

One thing of note (and someone please correct me if I'm wrong). Unit patches are most commonly worn on the left shoulder. The Air Force wears their unit patch on their breast pocket. That is where the witness saw the "orange dragon pawing at the air". Another indication of Air Force personnel.

Maggiore Article 2
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By Archangel76
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5 months ago
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Lt. Ray Biondi's Theory

During slow news cycles, newspapers are notorious for speculation. This was done with the Visalia Ransacker. Both the Sacramento Bee and Union printed articles about Det. McGowen believing that the VR and the EAR were one and the same. The SCSD issued statements denying such a connection. The Sacramento Bee and Union printed articles speculating about whether the EAR committed the Offerman/Manning murders. The SBSD issued statements denying a connection.

Neither the Sacramento Bee nor the Union at the time EVER printed a single article speculating that the Maggiore murders were committed by the EAR. Not once. And as pointed out, the EAR had just committed a rape 5 days prior to the murders.

Everyone continues to say that it's "Arch's Theory" and I would love to take full credit for it. It is not my theory. It is Lt. Ray Biondi's theory. He had all of the relevant facts in 1978 and could confer with Sgt. Bevins and Insp. Shelby about the EAR, which was being actively investigated at the time. The phone calls just happened. The double attack on Victims 29 and 30 just happened. Biondi's conclusion, as reported by both the Sacramento Bee and Union, is that the murders were committed by two airmen. The bulk of the investigation was directed at airmen. And it most likely was committed by airmen from the 320th SPS, the self-described "SAC Trained Killers."

How many suspects do you count in this article:

Maggiore Article 7

They both cannot be the EAR. Did Arch print the above article? Or this one:

Maggiore Article 2

Who believes that these are composites of the same person. Where is the grease stain on the back of the green nylon jacket? Why isn't it zippered and gathered at the waist?

Suspects #1 and #2
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Edited by Archangel76, 5 months ago
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By Archangel76
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5 months ago
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You Will Never Get It

I still do not get this whole theory about Bryan being undercover. If he was undercover wouldn't LE know about it? So then a) wouln't they of known exactly who did it? and b) wouldn't Arch's LE buddies know by now thirty years later whether Bryan was an undercover agent? The whole thing sounds really far fetched to me.

I never said that Sgt. Maggiore was an undercover agent. I said that an airmen questioned during the investigation said that OTHER AIRMEN on the base BELIEVED that Sgt. Maggiore was an undercover agent and was responsible for the arrests of other airmen.

Bear99 pointed out that Sgt. Maggiore being transfered from Mather could be an indication that he may have actually been an undercover agent. All that matters is that other airmen believed he was an undercover agent. Airmen conducting themselves above reproach would not and should not care if Sgt. Maggiore was an undercover agent. The only ones that would care are people who were involved in illegal activities. Illegal activities that are well documented.

I find the idea that Bryan discovered the drug ring on his own to have more merit. It still doesn't really explain how he was killed very well. And it definitely doesn't explain the laces. Honestly don't you think that saying the EAR did it provides a much simpler explanation? Honestly?

You are right about the simple explanation. The Maggiores bumped into the EAR in a backyard. Cased closed. Let's go have a beer.

"Bumping into the EAR" does not in any way explain why two suspicious men were seen walking together WEST on La Gloria Way minutes before the shooting. The shooting happened approx. two minutes later EAST in a backyard on La Alegria Drive. Who were the two men? They both cannot be the EAR. If one was the EAR and the other was Sgt. Maggiore, then they didn't "bump into the EAR".

It does not explain why the Maggiores walked down La Alegria TWICE, having turned around as they neared the duplex with the lying airmen in it.

It does not explain why the Maggiores turned north and walked up West La Loma Drive when they would typically turn and walk south on West La Loma Drive and return home via Capitales Drive which goes straight into Malaga Way and La Verta Court where they resided. A suspicious person was seen loitering near the corner of West La Loma Drive and Capitales Drive. Later, Mr. 320th Dragon Patch would be seen walking hurriedly on Capitales Drive and later acting suspiciously on West La Loma Drive.

"Bumping into the EAR" does not explain the two conflicting descriptions of men seen fleeing the area of the crime scene. The two conflicting descriptions of the men seen after the shooting generally match the descriptions of the two men seen walking together before the shooting.

And finally, "bumping into the EAR" does not explain why the current investigators say that this person who looks like an airman and was wearing a jacket with an "orange dragon pawing the air" on it resembling the red dragon on the 485th CIG unit decal is the person they believe murdered the Maggiores. The 320th dragon is orange:



Enhanced Composite Sketch







320thUnitPatch

















So, the "simple explanation" only works once you have discredited the witnesses and distorted and misrepresented the case facts. If your case involves discrediting the witnesses and distorting and misrepresenting case facts, you literally have no case.

All you have is a shoelace. The shoelace could have been dropped in the backyard at any time BEFORE the shooting. The EAR was prowling the area. He could have been prowling that backyard, dropped the shoelace and left BEFORE the shooting occurred. Or it could have been dropped there purposely after the shooting. The presence of the shoelace does not in any way negate the fact that the Maggiores were stalked by two men BEFORE the shooting. Nor does it in any way negate the fact that two differing descriptions were given of men seen fleeing the area of the murders AFTER the shooting.


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Edited by Archangel76, 5 months ago
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Details Details Details

Maggiore Article 2

I missed this minor detail from this article. But it is an important one with regards to whether the first witness saw two men walking along La Gloria Way. The current theory is that the suspect with the mustache is Sgt. Maggiore walking west along La Gloria Way with the EAR.

But here is what the newspaper article says: "Another white man, 5 feet, 10 inches tall with a neatly trimmed mustache was observed running away from the crime scene and is also wanted by detectives in the murder."

I think that we can all agree that this person seen running was not Sgt. Maggiore. As I have stated before, two suspects were seen before the shooting. At least two suspects were seen fleeing the area after the shooting. If there were, in fact, two suspects stalking the Maggiores, then this is not a case of the Maggiores "bumping into the EAR" no matter how many shoelaces were found at the scene of the crime.

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Edited by Archangel76, 5 months ago
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By Archangel76
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5 months ago
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Re: Details Details Details
Posted By: Archangel76

Maggiore Article 2

I missed this minor detail from this article. But it is an important one with regards to whether the first witness saw two men walking along La Gloria Way. The current theory is that the suspect with the mustache is Sgt. Maggiore walking west along La Gloria Way with the EAR.

But here is what the newspaper article says: "Another white man, 5 feet, 10 inches tall with a neatly trimmed mustache was observed running away from the crime scene and is also wanted by detectives in the murder."

I think that we can all agree that this person seen running was not Sgt. Maggiore. As I have stated before, two suspects were seen before the shooting. At least two suspects were seen fleeing the area after the shooting. If there were, in fact, two suspects stalking the Maggiores, then this is not a case of the Maggiores "bumping into the EAR" no matter how many shoelaces were found at the scene of the crime.

The Bee? The Sacramento Bee? You think that the Sacramento Bee never gets details wrong in it's articles? Okay? If you say so? So all the witnesses reported exactly what they saw that night without any mistakes or distortians from hypnosis or being asked leading questions and everybody that a witness saw was relevent to this case and the Bee perfectly reported all the facts? I have read the Bee for years and I can tell you they often get very basic facts about stories wrong. BTW you remind me of AK the way you keep enlessly reposting you convoluted theory. As if by stating it over and over it somehow becomes more valid. Please restate your theory from beginning to end as your currently see it.
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Edited by Repoman, 5 months ago
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By Repoman
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5 months ago
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One Other Minor but Important Detail

In the "bumped into EAR" theory, one scenario has it that Thumper, the toy poodle, ran into the backyard of the home on La Gloria Way and when Brian and Katie went into the backyard to retrieve Thumper, they "surprised" the EAR.

There is one small problem with that scenario (a big problem, actually), Thumper would have had to have opened the gate in order to get into the backyard. The fence that was blown down was between the houses on the property line and it was a small section. The gates on both houses were intact. Unfortunately, there was a lock on the gate of the house on La Alegria Drive.

Brian and Katie Maggiore ran into the backyard to escape someone pursuing them on the street. So there is no EAR pulling a gun out of his jacket pocket and the shoelace falling out (a gun with a 4-inch barrel). His gun was already out and he was firing it at the Maggiores BEFORE the reached the backyard on La Alegria Drive.
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Edited by Archangel76, 5 months ago
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By Archangel76
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5 months ago
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I Am Done...
explaining anything to you. You think the EAR murdered the Maggiores. We get it.
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By Archangel76
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5 months ago
2156 Posts
Re: I Am Done...
Posted By: Archangel76
explaining anything to you. You think the EAR murdered the Maggiores. We get it.
You are clearly playing games.
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By Repoman
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5 months ago
1487 Posts
Re: One Other Minor but Important Detail
Posted By: Archangel76

In the "bumped into EAR" theory, one scenario has it that Thumper, the toy poodle, ran into the backyard of the home on La Gloria Way and when Brian and Katie went into the backyard to retrieve Thumper, they "surprised" the EAR.

There is one small problem with that scenario (a big problem, actually), Thumper would have had to have opened the gate in order to get into the backyard. The fence that was blown down was between the houses on the property line and it was a small section. The gates on both houses were intact. Unfortunately, there was a lock on the gate of the house on La Alegria Drive.

Brian and Katie Maggiore ran into the backyard to escape someone pursuing them on the street. So there is no EAR pulling a gun out of his jacket pocket and the shoelace falling out (a gun with a 4-inch barrel). His gun was already out and he was firing it at the Maggiores BEFORE the reached the backyard on La Alegria Drive.

You know that this is not the theory that the detectives on the THS story are proposing. Yet you disort the theory to try and discredit it. This is very strange behavior for someone who claims they want to know the truth. You may want to keep in mind that the way you try and discredit other people's theories says more about you than it does about the other theory. Seriously you should think about that.
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Edited by Repoman, 5 months ago
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By Repoman
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5 months ago
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Re: Lt. Ray Biondi's Theory
Posted By: Archangel76

During slow news cycles, newspapers are notorious for speculation. This was done with the Visalia Ransacker. Both the Sacramento Bee and Union printed articles about Det. McGowen believing that the VR and the EAR were one and the same. The SCSD issued statements denying such a connection. The Sacramento Bee and Union printed articles speculating about whether the EAR committed the Offerman/Manning murders. The SBSD issued statements denying a connection.

Neither the Sacramento Bee nor the Union at the time EVER printed a single article speculating that the Maggiore murders were committed by the EAR. Not once. And as pointed out, the EAR had just committed a rape 5 days prior to the murders.

Everyone continues to say that it's "Arch's Theory" and I would love to take full credit for it. It is not my theory. It is Lt. Ray Biondi's theory. He had all of the relevant facts in 1978 and could confer with Sgt. Bevins and Insp. Shelby about the EAR, which was being actively investigated at the time. The phone calls just happened. The double attack on Victims 29 and 30 just happened. Biondi's conclusion, as reported by both the Sacramento Bee and Union, is that the murders were committed by two airmen. The bulk of the investigation was directed at airmen. And it most likely was committed by airmen from the 320th SPS, the self-described "SAC Trained Killers."

How many suspects do you count in this article:

Maggiore Article 7

They both cannot be the EAR. Did Arch print the above article? Or this one:

Maggiore Article 2

Who believes that these are composites of the same person. Where is the grease stain on the back of the green nylon jacket? Why isn't it zippered and gathered at the waist?

Suspects #1 and #2
Here is what the current investigators are saying about these witness statements. "According to a very credible and reliable source I spoke with yesterday,​ a cautious view is held in light of some of the eye witness accounts. During initial and first interviews​ of several of the witnesses many of the "seemingly​ important"​ details were not mentioned.​ One to mention is that during an interview a witness thought there might be something in the pocket. Under hypnosis it became a "bulge" and then even later it became a gun. The same goes with the stain on the back of the jacket. It was not noticed initially and depending on the interview (er) maybe there was something suggestive​. I am not sure. I have to say it would be most difficult to count on anyone to get all these details exact! I am not discountin​g or discrediti​ng anyone. God knows they told their truth, it is just very difficult to say with any certainty,​ considerin​g all the factors, what is accurate and what is not. g"
Yet you continue to act as if every witness account is beyond reproach. Even when we know that is not the case. And yes I do think that the above sketches could be describing the same person. They appear to be almost identical. Think about it. Two witnesses never see things exactly. 
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By Repoman
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5 months ago
1487 Posts
Re: You Will Never Get It
Posted By: Archangel76

I still do not get this whole theory about Bryan being undercover. If he was undercover wouldn't LE know about it? So then a) wouln't they of known exactly who did it? and b) wouldn't Arch's LE buddies know by now thirty years later whether Bryan was an undercover agent? The whole thing sounds really far fetched to me.

I never said that Sgt. Maggiore was an undercover agent. I said that an airmen questioned during the investigation said that OTHER AIRMEN on the base BELIEVED that Sgt. Maggiore was an undercover agent and was responsible for the arrests of other airmen.

Bear99 pointed out that Sgt. Maggiore being transfered from Mather could be an indication that he may have actually been an undercover agent. All that matters is that other airmen believed he was an undercover agent. Airmen conducting themselves above reproach would not and should not care if Sgt. Maggiore was an undercover agent. The only ones that would care are people who were involved in illegal activities. Illegal activities that are well documented.

I find the idea that Bryan discovered the drug ring on his own to have more merit. It still doesn't really explain how he was killed very well. And it definitely doesn't explain the laces. Honestly don't you think that saying the EAR did it provides a much simpler explanation? Honestly?

You are right about the simple explanation. The Maggiores bumped into the EAR in a backyard. Cased closed. Let's go have a beer.

"Bumping into the EAR" does not in any way explain why two suspicious men were seen walking together WEST on La Gloria Way minutes before the shooting. The shooting happened approx. two minutes later EAST in a backyard on La Alegria Drive. Who were the two men? They both cannot be the EAR. If one was the EAR and the other was Sgt. Maggiore, then they didn't "bump into the EAR".

It does not explain why the Maggiores walked down La Alegria TWICE, having turned around as they neared the duplex with the lying airmen in it.

It does not explain why the Maggiores turned north and walked up West La Loma Drive when they would typically turn and walk south on West La Loma Drive and return home via Capitales Drive which goes straight into Malaga Way and La Verta Court where they resided. A suspicious person was seen loitering near the corner of West La Loma Drive and Capitales Drive. Later, Mr. 320th Dragon Patch would be seen walking hurriedly on Capitales Drive and later acting suspiciously on West La Loma Drive.

"Bumping into the EAR" does not explain the two conflicting descriptions of men seen fleeing the area of the crime scene. The two conflicting descriptions of the men seen after the shooting generally match the descriptions of the two men seen walking together before the shooting.

And finally, "bumping into the EAR" does not explain why the current investigators say that this person who looks like an airman and was wearing a jacket with an "orange dragon pawing the air" on it resembling the red dragon on the 485th CIG unit decal is the person they believe murdered the Maggiores. The 320th dragon is orange:



Enhanced Composite Sketch







320thUnitPatch

















So, the "simple explanation" only works once you have discredited the witnesses and distorted and misrepresented the case facts. If your case involves discrediting the witnesses and distorting and misrepresenting case facts, you literally have no case.

All you have is a shoelace. The shoelace could have been dropped in the backyard at any time BEFORE the shooting. The EAR was prowling the area. He could have been prowling that backyard, dropped the shoelace and left BEFORE the shooting occurred. Or it could have been dropped there purposely after the shooting. The presence of the shoelace does not in any way negate the fact that the Maggiores were stalked by two men BEFORE the shooting. Nor does it in any way negate the fact that two differing descriptions were given of men seen fleeing the area of the murders AFTER the shooting.



What I will never get is why you keep trying to cram this theory down everyone's throat. You are exactly like AK in that regard. You can believe what ever you want. Just don't act like it is the only theory.
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Edited by Repoman, 5 months ago
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By Repoman
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5 months ago
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Re: I Am Done...
Posted By: Archangel76
explaining anything to you. You think the EAR murdered the Maggiores. We get it.
I am so glad to hear that. It really is becoming tiresome pointing out how convoluted your theory is.
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By Repoman
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5 months ago
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Orange Red Yellow Dragons

This is a repost. This post was getting buried in the O/M thread:

320thUnitPatch485th CI

















I have located the regular unit patch for the 485th CIG. It is closer to the decal that the witness was shown back in 1978. And the dragon is almost identical to the 320th griffin. It is important to note that the witness never identified the patch. She identified the dragon on the patch. She was specifically asked about whether she remembered the entire patch or just the dragon. She could not remember if there was anything around the dragon but she was certain about the dragon. She was never at any time shown the 320th SPS' unit patch for comparison.

Background on the 485th CIG (later redesignated EIG) is that they install communications equipment. They were based out of Griffiss AFB in New York. Several members were on work assignment at Mather during the time of the Maggiore murders. None of them match the description of the suspects wanted in the Maggiore murders and none of the members were known to have a jacket with their unit patch on it.

349th AMW

Bear99 found the 349th AMW patch a few years back. The 349th also came up during the investigation. They were based out of Travis AFB. None of their members were attached to Mather AFB during the time of the murders. But that does not mean that someone from the 349th could not be involved in the Maggiore murders. The witness was not shown a unit patch from the 349th, either.

320th "dragon" - Orange 485th dragon - Red 349th dragon - Yellow

Sgt. Maggiore was with the 323rd SPS and worked out of the same building as the 320th SPS.
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Edited by Archangel76, 5 months ago
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By Archangel76
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5 months ago
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[Drifter]

Gun Shops in Sacramento and neighboring Communities

EAR/ONS, pointed different models of handguns at his victims. What is the possibility that he had got some of these handguns from gun stores in Sacramento and neighboring Communities in the mid 1970s'. Would records of these purchases of handguns be kept since then?

If records for handgun purchases are kept gun shops then it may be a way of finding him based on age and possible geographic location of early crimes.

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Edited by Samk, 11 months ago

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By Samk
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11 months ago
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Re: Gun Shops in Sacramento and neighboring Communities
Im quite sane... Its biffy who felt the need to attempt to refight the Boer War here... I just told him what REALLY happened as opposed to the revisionist history taught in all those schools where boys like him wear short pants, and get paddled over the headmasters knee... Jolly good show. Toodles.
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By KevTheBoer
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11 months ago
8088 Posts
Anyway moving

on.Were any shell casings ever found at any of the Goleta scenes or did he pick them up and take them with him.Anyone know? I can't remember ever reading what type of Gun he used there.

Btw Kev it was supposed to be a joke to troll you back.
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Edited by briffyboy, 11 months ago
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By briffyboy
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11 months ago
222 Posts
Re: Re: Gun Shops in Sacramento and neighboring Communities
Posted By: KevTheBoer

Oh boy "The Perp" catch an episode of Criminal Minds and youll be calling him "The UnSub" next... Wow so they have recovered bullets! Those are really useful without a firearm to compare them to. Hell after THREE DECADES even if they did have the right firearm to compare it too they would probably never know it, because every time you run a cleaning rod down the bore, youll be adding new scratches or other marks. Thirty years of wear, rust, corrosion, pitting, cleaning, copper fouling etc should have pretty well cleaned out / covered up / changed the charectoristics of any distinguishing ballistics marks. Ever seen a car that looked factory new, right down to a microscopic level, after 30 years??? Oh yeah, and no parts replacements in those 30 years either - cause they wont have the same tool marks, scratches, etc as the one that was in there when it was used in the crime... Ballistics are great - when you are comparing the weapon found on your suspect to the bullets fired last weekPut 30 years of differences in there, and it doesnt take much to create "reasonable doubt".

Again you do not seem to grasp how large the firearms industry is, and how many of things are made. Since you brought up .22 pistols, with two exceptions ALL .22 rimfire weapons have 1:16 twist. There are about 2.5 BILLION rounds of 22 ammo produced each year in the USA and its sold at just about any Walmart, K-mart, sporting goods store, convenience store, trading post, hardware store, flea market, gun show etc... Its in more than half the homes in America. I personally have over 10,000 rounds of it between my house and the cabin. Just about everybody I know, myself included, has a .22 pistol and a box of ammo in their fishing tacklebox in case they have trouble with a gator or water moccassin. I have a 22 on the boat, and in the survival kit. Twenty Twos are EVERYWHERE. Country people prop the barn door open with them. You usually get your first one when your five or six years old, and you keep accumulating them afterwards. Ive bought them, Ive been given them, Ive even found them left under the seat when I bought a used car. They are pretty much everywhere, and there are countless thousands of them out there, usually transferred with no paperwork at all because only licensed dealers fill out a form 4473. There is no paperwork on private transfers.

Kev, the FBI and ATF have a system that can tell the type of model of gun used in a crime based on the markings made on the bullet when it was fired. But your points about .22 pistols are well taken. As a gun owner myself I have had several .22 pistols over the years and they are everywhere because they and the ammo are cheap when using them for target practice.
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Edited by Samk, 11 months ago
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By Samk
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11 months ago
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Re: Anyway moving
Posted By: briffyboy

on.Were any shell casings ever found at any of the Goleta scenes or did he pick them up and take them with him.Anyone know? I can't remember ever reading what type of Gun he used there.

Btw Kev it was supposed to be a joke to troll you back.
I believe that he was using a revolver in that crime.
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By Samk
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11 months ago
382 Posts