Set 28

[Drifter]

Visalia Ransacker Question

One question that has cropped up when trying to determine if the Visalia Ransacker is connected to the EAR is why didn't the EAR brandish a firearm in his first few attacks in Sacramento? The Ransacker stole several weapons from the homes that he burglarized. He shot and killed Prof. Snelling and also shot and attempted to kill Det. McGowen.

So, when the EAR shows up in Sacramento, why no firearm in his first few attacks? The Ransacker is bringing a firearm to just commit burglaries. Sexual assault is a big escalation. Wouldn't we expect the Ransacker to have access to multiple firearms and to have brought one to his first Sacramento attack? He certainly had one when he attempted to kidnap Prof. Snelling's daughter.

That is the first real indication that the VR may not be the EAR. Just a random thought after missing out on the Rapture and being "left behind."

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Edited by Archangel76, 2 years ago

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By Archangel76
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2 years ago
2159 Posts


Re: Re: Visalia Ransacker Question
Posted By: erikdavid5111
OK, what if there are two VR's: the slim agile one later morphing into EAR, and what if the fat one was arrested for something else and doesn't even know his partner is EAR or is keeping mum?

Just one more insane possibility!
The possibility you suggest is not insane ..................the story goes in the UK in 1986 there was a railway rapist who morphed into a serial killer (a bit of background: he targeted females near railways and raped them then started to kill), he was busted and went to jail- everyone including UK cops thought the guy acted alone , indeed several victims spoke of a lone attacker, .............then 10 years later in 1996 the guy revealed the name of an accomplice rapist who had been unknown until then.....

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By DanCartell
Member
2 years ago
683 Posts

Visalia Ransacker Question

Maybe he discarded the stolen firearms and the ammo he stole in Visalia. When he moved out of Visalia, maybe he didn't want to leave a trail; maybe he had a conscious and was trying to quit (after murdering Snelling by accident -- after all he was just after Beth); maybe he had everything under control and didn't need to bring out a firearm; maybe he was afraid that they could link the McGowen firearms to Northern CA. The guy didn't want to get caught. If I were in the same spot, I would probably discard the guns and try to make a new start outside of Visalia. He went from December to June with no activity, other than, perhaps, scoping out his territory.

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By dengas
Member
2 years ago
966 Posts

Re: Visalia Ransacker Question
Posted By: dengas

Maybe he discarded the stolen firearms and the ammo he stole in Visalia. When he moved out of Visalia, maybe he didn't want to leave a trail; maybe he had a conscious and was trying to quit (after murdering Snelling by accident -- after all he was just after Beth); maybe he had everything under control and didn't need to bring out a firearm; maybe he was afraid that they could link the McGowen firearms to Northern CA. The guy didn't want to get caught. If I were in the same spot, I would probably discard the guns and try to make a new start outside of Visalia. He went from December to June with no activity, other than, perhaps, scoping out his territory.

or maybe the guy knew that a murder rap was pretty big and there was no statute so he was a bit apprehensive for a while and got rid of the firearms- , then after he moved to a new area and was certain cops were not going to get him for the murder he began to get back to normal operating procedure after cooling it a bit. I also think after a while he began to think about murdering again since he had got away with his first one then maybe he began to think he could getaway with any murder then this eventually built up an urge in him that eventually culminated in him becoming a serial killer later on. If cops had questioned him in the Snelling investigation this would have been the close call that would have curbed his desires for murder.You are right on the money when you say he did not want a situation were a link could be found between crimes in Visalia and NorCal- this guy committed a lot of crime therefore he had to be conscious about the implications of them been connected

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Edited by DanCartell, 2 years ago

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By DanCartell
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2 years ago
683 Posts

Lefties
There's also anecdotal evidence that forcing left-handed children to use their right hand can cause stuttering.
Wikipedias entry on left handedness states: "...variations in levels of testosterone during pregnancy shape the development of the fetal brain. Testosterone suppresses the growth of the left cerebral hemisphere and so more neurons migrate to the right hemisphere[citation needed]. The highly developed right hemisphere is now better suited to function as the center of language and handedness. The fetus is more likely to become left-handed, since the right hemisphere controls the left half of the body. The theory goes on to tie the exposure to higher levels of testosterone and the resultant right-hemisphere dominance to a higher risk of auto-immune disorders, learning disorders, dyslexia, and stuttering, as well as higher spatial ability compared with right-handed people." As most of you know, in Sudden Terror, more than one of the victims of Earons mentioned him stuttering.

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By icyu2
Member
2 years ago
40 Posts

dengas
Have you found any prowler/peeper cases in Visalia in the few months prior to April 1974?

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By ZForce
Member
2 years ago
503 Posts

ZForce
I've never looked! Are you on to something interesting? The lady at the Blue Chip Stamp Redemption Center aid that the guy turned in 60 plus books, the last time being in September of 75. So, if this guy was VR, then there had to have been numerous occasions in 74 and 75. There isn't any PROOF, however, that this guy was the VR! Maybe the early ones are the ones that take the total to 125!

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By dengas
Member
2 years ago
966 Posts

Prowler/Peeper
Oops...I didn't answer your question, other than to say I've never looked. There hasn't been much mention of JUST prowler/peepers, other than a few sightings, like the one Snelling reported prior to 9/11/75.

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By dengas
Member
2 years ago
966 Posts

[Drifter]

Does anyone know what was stolen from crime scenes?

Is there a public or commonly known list of items and decrscriptions?

I think I remember reading either in posts here or in Sudden Terror - about a lamp, answering machine, gun(s)...? Does anyone know any make, model or descriptions of these items?



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Edited by Vminor, 6 months ago

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By Vminor
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6 months ago
49 Posts




Re: Does anyone know what was stolen from crime scenes?
Hello Vminor, We must have been typing at the same time. I just asked that question in a different thread. Specifically since I just listened to the Crompton interview and Crompton mentioned that EAR started stealing household items as if to set up a new residence in Contra Costa County and he had never done that before CCC. My question is did he do that in So. Cal. indicating he was again setting up a residence. I can only recall the stealing of the small crystal lamp from Manuela and the removal of the t.v. to her back yard. I am looking for a clue for where he actually set up a residence. Where else did he steal household items?

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By Sandia
Member
6 months ago
1382 Posts

Re: Does anyone know what was stolen from crime scenes?
We know that none of the stolen items were ever pawned. So he may have been using them.

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By Samk
Member
6 months ago
382 Posts

Clock radios...
I recall that 3 or 4 clock radios were stolen. To me, this seems to indicate that he had them tuned to different stations during the day or night to catch the latest news on him.

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By Warren
Member
6 months ago
121 Posts

Re: Does anyone know what was stolen from crime scenes?
I found it a bit odd when he took the 17 rolls of pennies and he didnt take the cash. It was probably more for a mindf@!$. I feel like he isn't dumb enough to take items and use it for his new place. Maybe he wanted LE to think he was moving. That way he could get them focused in another city and he could stay put right where he was. Ive kind of wondered that maybe he never left. The crimes that are further away or south become more spread out. The murders are months apart...then 5 years.

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By casesolverforfun
Member
6 months ago
68 Posts

Re: Re: Does anyone know what was stolen from crime scenes?
Posted By: casesolverforfun
I found it a bit odd when he took the 17 rolls of pennies and he didnt take the cash. It was probably more for a mindf@!$. I feel like he isn't dumb enough to take items and use it for his new place. Maybe he wanted LE to think he was moving. That way he could get them focused in another city and he could stay put right where he was. Ive kind of wondered that maybe he never left. The crimes that are further away or south become more spread out. The murders are months apart...then 5 years.
Again, this is an interesting take. I was buying into Larry Crompton's statements that when he started offending in CCC, he started stealing household items for the first time indicating that he was moving there and setting up housekeeping. Could it be that you are right and this guy was more clever than I was giving him credit for? Was this a ruse to throw off LE? Did a relative start to suspect him and did he start to offend far enough away so the relative wouldn't hear of the crimes. I don't know if you are right but it is worth thinking about. Did he never actually move away from Sacramento?
When he got even further away -- Goleta and further south did he start to murder because now he felt free to now that he was far from said relative and also to leave no witness to his description or m.o.? I don't know. I also like the school/computer lab connection and that he started UCSB's new computer lab and stabbed the dog the first day of classes and attacked H/H in October of that year (H/H both connercted to UCSB and computer programming)

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By Sandia
Member
6 months ago
1382 Posts

It Was A Ruse

Look at it this way would a guy as careful as the EAR really be stupid enough to furnish his new home with items from victims homes? Knowing that the Police would be taking a hard look at anyone who just moved in to the area from Sacramento? To me it is clear that he was trying to make it look like he had moved when he hadn't.

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Edited by Repoman, 6 months ago

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By Repoman
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6 months ago
1487 Posts

It Was A Ruse
You could be right! But then again this was back in the 70's and the communication and cooperation between jurisdictions was a problem. Could it be that he assumed enough distance was covered so they wouldn't put it together?

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By Sandia
Member
6 months ago
1382 Posts

Re: It Was A Ruse
Posted By: Repoman

Look at it this way would a guy as careful as the EAR really be stupid enough to furnish his new home with items from victims homes? Knowing that the Police would be taking a hard look at anyone who just moved in to the area from Sacramento? To me it is clear that he was trying to make it look like he had moved when he hadn't.
Why not? This guy had an ego the size of the Sierra's. The only time he even moved away from this area was after how many rapes/murders? And then continued on his spree in SoCal. He's not worried about an alarm clock that couldn't be traced to him. The rings are the only thing that could've been traced and he probably has those still in a storage shed somewhere.

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By ItzMajic
Member
6 months ago
14 Posts

Re: Re: It Was A Ruse
Posted By: ItzMajic
Posted By: Repoman

Look at it this way would a guy as careful as the EAR really be stupid enough to furnish his new home with items from victims homes? Knowing that the Police would be taking a hard look at anyone who just moved in to the area from Sacramento? To me it is clear that he was trying to make it look like he had moved when he hadn't.
Why not? This guy had an ego the size of the Sierra's. The only time he even moved away from this area was after how many rapes/murders? And then continued on his spree in SoCal. He's not worried about an alarm clock that couldn't be traced to him. The rings are the only thing that could've been traced and he probably has those still in a storage shed somewhere.
Why not? In my opinion it just doesn't fit. This guy put significant thought into getting away with these crimes. It is true that he had a big ego, but he was also very careful. I just don't see him stocking his new home with stolen items from rape victims. That would be reckless. I do think that he kept some trophies. As you suggest he probably kept them somewhere other than his residence. IMHO opinion he was starting to feel some heat either from LE or from someone close to him that became suspicous. He started spiralling out from Sacramento and attacked in Davis,Stockton, and Modesto. This did not stop LE from continuing to look for him in Sacramento so he decided to attack in the bay area and started taking household items to make it look like he moved. These attacks happened on the weekends almost exclusively and were more spread out in general than the Sacramento attacks. If it was a ruse it certainly worked as the Sacramento Sheriff's Department quit looking for him convinced that he had left town.

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By Repoman
Member
6 months ago
1487 Posts

Re: It Was A Ruse
Posted By: Sandia
You could be right! But then again this was back in the 70's and the communication and cooperation between jurisdictions was a problem. Could it be that he assumed enough distance was covered so they wouldn't put it together?

Maybe he assumed enough distance was covered so wouldn't put it together. I doubt it since his attacks in Davis, Stockton, and Modesto were all linked to him due to his distinctive MO. If he did really move to the bay area wouldn't he of changed his MO. Would he really want make it obvious that he just moved there knowing that SCSD was scouring the county for him? Also these attacks were noted in both the Bee and the Union within one week of the first attack. So he knew that LE knew he was attacking in the bay area. Regardless I still don't think he would stock his new home with items from his rapes. He was more careful than that.

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Edited by Repoman, 6 months ago

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By Repoman
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6 months ago
1487 Posts

Re: Re: It Was A Ruse
Posted By: Repoman
Posted By: Sandia
You could be right! But then again this was back in the 70's and the communication and cooperation between jurisdictions was a problem. Could it be that he assumed enough distance was covered so they wouldn't put it together?

Maybe he assumed enough distance was covered so wouldn't put it together. I doubt it since his attacks in Davis, Stockton, and Modesto were all linked to him due to his distinctive MO. If he did really move to the bay area wouldn't he of changed his MO. Would he really want make it obvious that he just moved there knowing that SCSD was scouring the county for him? Also these attacks were noted in both the Bee and the Union within one week of the first attack. So he knew that LE knew he was attacking in the bay area. Regardless I still don't think he would stock his new home with items from his rapes. He was more careful than that.
Repo, Attacking on the weekends makes a really good point and the idea that the attacks were being reported in the Bee is another good one. At first I was thinking that the changing of the M.O. might have been hard for him to do and he seemed to work from a script; but then I looked that up in the book"What Cops Know" and it states that M.O. is used for safety and can be changed, but the ritual is done for satisfaction and doesn't usually change. So again I think you make a good point.

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By Sandia
Member
6 months ago
1382 Posts

Danville Is Not That Far From Sacramento

Danville and Modesto are roughly the same distance from Sacramento. Only about 75 miles away. You can get to either town in about an hour and fifteen minutes.

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Edited by Repoman, 6 months ago

[Drifter]

Was Katie Maggiori being stalked?

Another poster just reminded me that Katie was being stalked. Was she also getting hang-up calls? I remember they had a description of a car that parked across the street from her work and it was believed it was thought to be the stalker watching her. Was it a VW -- I can't be sure but that rings a bell. I can't recall where I read this information. It is possible that Russ Whitmeyer told me but I have to scour my files to find my notes on this, so right now I am going on my memory which might be flawed.



Now could it be that this drug ring from Mather was indirectly trying to intimidate Sgt. Maggiori through his wife? or was the stalker EAR/ONS?



Next it occurs to me that EAR/ONS was beyond belief aggressive; kicking in a front door in one case. I remember in another case on pg. 81 of ST where after the daughter and then the mother saw him at the window, he started to run away and then came back crashing through the window and ran down the hall to the kitchen and told the mother to hang up the phone which was already ringing but the Operator hadn't picked up yet and all this while 3 people were in the house and awake! (Also in this case he used a club.)



I really hope I am not upsetting anyone with this post and I sincerely don't intend to try to derail the board, I just want to consider the various scenarios. Anyway, I could envision Sgt. Maggiori confronting EAR on the street while they walked. On pg. 445 of Sudden Terror, the night of the Domingo/Sanchez murder, a couple were walking in that neighborhood at about 10 p.m. and were being followed by a man, and at one point he was only 6' to 10' behind them. The subject was young, 5'11", slender with blond neck length hair. Now, if Sgt. Maggiori suspected they were being followed or stalked I can envision this 6' foot, very buff, military guy approaching EAR and I can envision EAR becoming aggressive and pulling a gun and chasing them. I'm not stating that this is what happened but just want to consider the possibility.

In the past EAR didn't chase people but that doesn't mean he didn't do it here. If EAR/ONS was VR, he attempted to kidnap Beth Snelling (which seems out of the normal continum of violence in his known crimes) and he killed her father.

dengas has mentioned the possibility that VR may have killed Jennifer Armour who was last seen just about 2 BLOCKS FROM THE SNELLING RESIDENCE!!! by K-Mart and her body being found in the Friant Canal and Donna Richmond being found near the Friant Canal and in a location where loot from VR was found dumped. These again would not fit with the continum of violence but this VR/EAR/ONS was very disturbed and maybe he was an anomoly from the normal progression of other murderers. I'm not sure the normal pattern of escalation holds true for him. I wonder what his plans for Beth were, was she going to be found in the Friant canal too?

These are just throughts I have for anyone who wants to to consider. Again, I hope this is not seen as an attempt to derail the board. I just want to be open minded and consider different things.
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By Sandia
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1 year ago
1382 Posts

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Stalked?
I don't remember anyone providing any detail on the assertion that she was being stalked. That doesn't mean she wasn't being stalked. All I remember is something about a guy in a VW staring at her at a gas station or something along those lines. And she was receiving crank calls. Well sometimes creepy guys stare at young girls at gas stations. To me that does not quite prove that she was being stalked. Again that doesn't mean that she wasn't being stalked. I just don't remember hearing anything that sounded all that convincing. For example did she tell multiple friends and her Mom that she was being stalked. I don't know maybe she did. As for whether you should be able to post this. Why not? It is a discussion board.
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By Repoman
Member
1 year ago
1487 Posts
Re: Stalked?
Posted By: Repoman
I don't remember anyone providing any detail on the assertion that she was being stalked. That doesn't mean she wasn't being stalked. All I remember is something about a guy in a VW staring at her at a gas station or something along those lines. And she was receiving crank calls. Well sometimes creepy guys stare at young girls at gas stations. To me that does not quite prove that she was being stalked. Again that doesn't mean that she wasn't being stalked. I just don't remember hearing anything that sounded all that convincing. For example did she tell multiple friends and her Mom that she was being stalked. I don't know maybe she did. As for whether you should be able to post this. Why not? It is a discussion board.
I will have to try to find this in my box of notes many of which are not organized. It might have come from Russ Whitmeyer when I was communicating with him a year or so ago (that is my hunch) but I am not sure. I think the car was spotted in front of her work, I just don't have time right now to look it all up so maybe somebody else can weigh in.
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By Sandia
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1 year ago
1382 Posts
Re: Was Katie Maggiori being stalked?

Katie was being stalked and a purple VW was seen watching her. She was receiving phone calls as well. The term "stalked" is used by detectives. g
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Edited by guessting, 1 year ago
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By guessting
Member
1 year ago
2045 Posts
Re: Re: Was Katie Maggiori being stalked?
Posted By: guessting

Katie was being stalked and a purple VW was seen watching her. She was receiving phone calls as well. The term "stalked" is used by detectives. g
Thanks g! Do you have any more on this stalking scenario you can share?
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By Sandia
Member
1 year ago
1382 Posts
Re: Re: Was Katie Maggiori being stalked?
Posted By: guessting

Katie was being stalked and a purple VW was seen watching her. She was receiving phone calls as well. The term "stalked" is used by detectives. g
Do these detectives believe that there is a connection between the stalking and her murder?
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By Repoman
Member
1 year ago
1487 Posts
Re: Was Katie Maggiori being stalked?

She also got a call from someone who claimed to be "the one doing all the rapes" and stating that she was next.

Something tells me this wasn't EAR and neither was her stalker, but who knows.

Repoman is right. There are all kinds of creepy people out there and if there's a pretty girl working at a gas station, it's not crazy to imagine many guys would notice her.

I just can't see EAR making an obvious spectacle of himself and his car in a public place as was witnessed.


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Edited by erikdavid5111, 1 year ago
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By erikdavid5111
Member
1 year ago
556 Posts
erik
you will probably find when this case is solved that the ear did make a spectacle of himself on numerous occasions which some would of been reported.unfortunately its too hard to pick them out until we know his name.what im trying to say is he not some superhuman perfectionist who never put a foot wrong but more that guy down the street who was a bit quiet,kept himself to himself...
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By metalhalide
Member
1 year ago
194 Posts
Re: Re: Re: Was Katie Maggiori being stalked?
Posted By: Repoman
Posted By: guessting

Katie was being stalked and a purple VW was seen watching her. She was receiving phone calls as well. The term "stalked" is used by detectives. g
Do these detectives believe that there is a connection between the stalking and her murder?
It is a possibility as is everything.
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By guessting
Member
1 year ago
2045 Posts
Katie was being stalked by someone driving a VW

Repoman's Post from Two Days Ago:
"If You Are Sick Of Hearing About The Maggiore'sSkip This Thread

I am going to repost two posts from Arch regarding the Maggiore's. I am doing this so that newer posters can have a better understanding of Arch's Maggiore theory. I am not doing this to continue any argument. At the same time I am not going to have someone tell me that their theory is the only logical conclusion to come to when that is simply not the case. I have been pummeled for two weeks for having the audacity to question someone's theory. So I think it is important to look back and put this recent roe in context.

Here Is Arch's post from one year ago:

Most of the investigators believe that not only were these murders committed by the EAR, but also that he acted aone. I have posted my theory about the Maggiore murders and why I do not believe that they are connected to the EAR (or at least that the EAR was not acting alone). On the annivesary of these murders, I would like to provide some insight as to why the investigators are convinced that it was the EAR. (Most of this information was in the THS Investigates the Original Night Stalker program).

1) The crime was committed in the EAR's Rancho Cordova comfort zone.
2) There is evidence that the EAR was active in the area ie prowling, burglaries, hang-up phone calls.
3) Katie was being stalked by someone driving a VW.
4) Katie was receiving crank phone calls.
5) Suspect who shot the Maggiore's was described by one of the witnesses as wearing a ski mask.
6) The shoelaces left behind at the crime scene with a knot tied in them.
7) There was an incident with a VW earlier in the evening.
8) Suspect #1's Composite Sketch resembles the EAR 1977 Composite Sketch.
9) Investigators theorized that the 2nd Suspect was misidentified and was Sgt. Maggiore, not a 2nd Suspect.
10) The EAR's behavior changed drastically after the murder of the Maggiores.

I still stand by my assessment of the Maggiore murders. If the EAR was there, he was not alone. But there is ample support for the belief that the EAR, alone, committed the murders. Whoever created the "EAR" user profile chose a date that I do not believe to be coincidence. He created that profile before the A&E Cold Case Files show aired in 2003 and before the
"Unsolved Mystery" article was published in the Sept. 2003 Sacramento Magazine. Most people did not know about the potential EAR connection to the Maggiore case prior to the publishing of that article.

That might have been his way of authenticating the user profile."
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By ladyofthelake
Member
1 year ago
209 Posts

[Drifter]

Waterfrogger

In your post on the CCF board, prior to this board being opened you made a reference to Las Vegas. I am curious why you believe that could be an important place to check for peeping cases. Will you please elaborate? g
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By guessting
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4 years ago
2043 Posts



Re: Waterfrogger

Wow, didnt scroll down to see the new Forum topic for the EAR/ONS.



Anyhow, Guessting. Honestly, just looking at his travel patterns:

Vegas was a booming city around his last murder.

It is just a skip and a jump from L.A. and it is a travelers city.

EAR who looked to be in a traveling or vagabond type of businesss.

Vegas is a good place to be "normal" in a deviant environment

Maybe some others could fill in the rest of the blanks, but that is what I have so far.
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Edited by waterfrogger, 4 years ago
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By waterfrogger
Member
4 years ago
123 Posts
Thanks
I was interested in why you thought Las Vegas might be important. Glad to see you found your way to the new board. Thanks. G
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By guessting
Member
4 years ago
2043 Posts
Pac NW
I just noted that it was mentioned that the Pac NW seems like a good place to look for suspect(s) past/present. Frankly, I am of the mind that the suspect(s) no longer commit murder but do peep, prowl, abuse animals and wives, etc. Who knows, maybe he jumped one too many fences in his day and ruined a knee!
About three months ago, a relative's close friend in Vancouver BC was murdered while jogging along a path in a city park. I believe it was on the Univ. of British Columbia campus police area. She was in her 40's and jogged often along this path. It was about 2:00 p.m. during the week that this happened. The suspect(s) jumped out of the woods along the path and stabbed her multiple times. The RCMP has no leads they are willing to expound on to the public. Her husband has been thought to be a peripheral suspect although it seems unlikely as he had a good alibi. Again, I don't think this is ONS/EAR but I do kind of wonder about these "random" crimes now and how many are very likely related to one suspect committing multiple acts. It certainly seems as likely to me that this could be ONS if one is willing to believe that the homicides in Ventura, Ca recently were the act(s) of ONS.
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By Cashius
Member
4 years ago
20 Posts
DNA
Hi Cash,
Hope all is well with you. Happy New year to you and yours. I don't think there is a connection to the latest Ventura killings. But you never know. Knowing that LE has the DNA profile of our guy, EARONS, I would assume if there was DNA in any of these crimes there would of been a press release saying so. Or some kind of manhunt..That would be a very difficult thing to keep quiet here in California. As far as other jurisdictions go, I have to assume again if there were random crimes committed by EARONS, something would of shown up by now. Don't get me wrong, I believe with all my heart there are other crimes. The question is was there DNA left at those scenes? Did his MO change? Time will tell. G
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By guessting
Member
4 years ago
2043 Posts
Pacific Northwest
Cash, That is a good observation ragarding the Pacific Northwest. It reminded me of a case that is awaiting trial. Hirschfield (sp?). He is on trial for the UC Davis college sweetheart murders. When cold case detectives got the hit on him, he wasn't ever even remotely on the radar. One of the main investigators on the case also was a main ear investigator. Hirschfield ended up going to Washington state and committing a few other crimes before being charged with the UC Davis murders. There is a really good book on the case by Joel Davis, who was instrumental in getting the case solved. He never gave up. It gives me motivation to do whatever I can to bring mr ear down.
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By Bear99
Member
4 years ago
271 Posts
Re: Waterfrogger
But I must add: Ear was moving South...never North, except in the Citrus Heights events. It is just a trend that has appeared more than once. I am not saying he never could have, I am just saying he liked his route or his job liked his route.
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By waterfrogger
Member
3 years ago
123 Posts
I agree..
Yes, EAR liked his path that is for certain. He was consistant with certain things and moving South was one of them. He definitely felt safe in the locations he chose. The big question is why? G
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By guessting
Member
3 years ago
2043 Posts
Re: Waterfrogger
I agree that the PacNW is unlikely for many reasons. After thinking about these cases for a few months now, I just have begun to think about seemingly isolated cases of the past being connected more than I would have ever believed before. As is imaginable in criminal investigation, there is a "fondess" for heaping all unsolves on some likely suspect when in fact they aren't responsible. So, you kind of get in the habit of trying not to do that as it really is a form of tunnel vision. But, now, I do wonder.
One thought I had is that maybe the hub of these cases is not the East Bay as we all seemed to believe. What if the hub (or where the suspect is from originally) is the Santa Barbara area? What if the EAR/ONS traveled north and south from that point on and, when returning to home base did a few there. Yes, there is a seemingly huge comfort zone up there in the Sacto area but, given his likely age at the time, he could have been in the AF or at college, etc. Also, if one spends a few nights in one area peeping and prowling, it would not be unlikely for someone to get very familiar with an area, enough so to run into rivers, stream beds, etc.One things about the suspect(s); he was a prolific peeper and prowler. When the cops were all over the EAR area on stake outs, I now wonder if any other seemingly unrelated crimes went down in those areas.
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By Cashius
Member
3 years ago
20 Posts
Re: Waterfrogger

Smart thinking Cashius, I honestly never really thought about a petty thief in the area as the Ear Ons. He could have been caught a couple of times on something petty and just released the same day. But comfortableness in Citrus Heights and Rancho Cordova lead a person to be committing
these type of crimes that are "under the radar" due to their pettiness.

I can not believe he never received a parking illegally, jaywalking, tresspassing, loitering, or other petty citation in those areas or near them. I mean, he just has to have something very very petty on the books....ahhh or spedding before or after the murders. Before and after because I do not know how the local LE created the citations an error of +1/-1 day would be worth looking into.
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Edited by waterfrogger, 3 years ago
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By waterfrogger
Member
3 years ago
123 Posts
Visalia

If you believe EAR began in Visalia as I do, he began South of Sacramento as the Visalia Ransacker. He had an unbelievable amount of crimes in those locations as well. Was the general area of these crimes where he grew up as a young man (teenager)? I have added Arch's link so you can see how many of those crimes there are. There are many similarities if you review these crimes. I do believe he lived in Sacramento during the EAR crimes and possibly the homicides. I believe and pray this is the year for answers.
I believe there may of been brushes with LE as a minor, peeping, burglary, etc. Those juvenile records no longer exist in Sacramento, I have checked. As for the adult crimes finding arrests and police reports from that era prove difficult. It is possible with a name. Believe me, I have gone through many records from that time period. g www.ear-ons.com
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Edited by guessting, 3 years ago
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By guessting
Member
3 years ago
2043 Posts

[Drifter]

a couple things

The first rape victim, said after she was attacked EAR was ransacking for quite awhile and at one point heard alot of whispering, and then a louder whisper say "I told you to shutup" Now was there another person with EAR? Or he was talking to himself? We'll never know i guess.



Im also wondering what is going on with the german Shepherd dog story when someone ranag a persons doorbell and told them his German Shepherd was stabbed and asked to use the phone.. a man picks him and his dog up and the next day the person returns and thanks him for letting him use his phone, and then later gets a red rose in the mail. What was that about?? I reread it a couple times but it did not make sense, if the book was trying to say that was ONS ringing the doorbell, or maybe ONS stabbed the dog? I wasnt sure what the book was alluding to.

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By watermokasin3
Member
3 years ago
105 Posts



SOE

You would fail at the academy for reading writing styles, and judging who wrote what. I am not Alicia; and I think that should be obvious. I appreciate the fact that you have so much extra time on your hands; it has made looking up this case very easy due to the archives.
I am related to this case through the victims and would have been around 3 at the time. My POIs are in their 50s and considered VERY good suspects. However Alicia does give examples of odd things EAR ONS does do such as taking a screen out, and leaving it half way on with one tab pull out and one left in. It caught my attention and I will explain why later. I do not think her POI is the EAR ONS, but do think she has had a run in with something similar.
Please don't get so rigid as to be boring, and unable to think outside the box. I don't want to picture you as the freaky English/film teacher wearing the tweed jacket with the leather elbows ... I love the different people who contribute here with different skills, talents, and ideas. I also appreciate your archives, and correcting points that are not correct per the archives least anyone else get carried away with creative license.
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Edited by clarice, 3 years ago
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By clarice
Member
3 years ago
99 Posts
Re: Gates open
Posted By: hdmi
Thanks, tracks at the actual crime scenes could have been left by any dog who followed the perps scent. And the EAR-ONS left so many gates open that dogs could easily wander around at night.
Some dogs he "liked" or were of no threat to him and others were beaten to death or stabbed.Anyone know when the dog beating happened in Sacramento.Did it precede VR's emergence in April of '74?
you know I am also fascinated by that fact some dogs this guy liked and others he meted harsh treatment them. What breeds were the dogs that were harmed?
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By DanCartell
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2 years ago
683 Posts
Re: Re: Gates open
Posted By: DanCartell
Posted By: hdmi
Thanks, tracks at the actual crime scenes could have been left by any dog who followed the perps scent. And the EAR-ONS left so many gates open that dogs could easily wander around at night.
Some dogs he "liked" or were of no threat to him and others were beaten to death or stabbed.Anyone know when the dog beating happened in Sacramento.Did it precede VR's emergence in April of '74?
you know I am also fascinated by that fact some dogs this guy liked and others he meted harsh treatment them. What breeds were the dogs that were harmed?
The dog beaten to death in Goleta was a poodle.
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By SpeakelOfEngrish
Member
2 years ago
1090 Posts
Poodles
Not a surprise EAR would beat a poodle to death. Despite being wonderful dogs they are symbols of all the stuff EAR was thumbing his nose at. Like the rest of us. Oughta burn him alive just for the dogs he killed
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By f1guyus
Member
2 years ago
1270 Posts

Quick Reply

[Drifter]

What can we confirm about dogs

It seems that the dog sightings are getting more convoluted than sorted out.

About one week prior to the first unsuccessful Goleta attack, two residents on Berkeley Rd were contacted by a young man whose german shepherd had been stabbed when the dog ran into a backyard while out on a walk. 10/24/79. (Sudden Terror)

The night of the Domingo Sanchez murders animal blood was found on the Berkeley Rd footbridge and sidewalk near the crime scene as confirmed in this article. (7/27/81). Earlier that night a young man was spotted in the neighborhood with a German Shepherd. These dog incidents occurred almost two years apart. Note in this article that the Ventura and Orange County murders are mentioned as possibly linked. There is also an SB newscast available on the web where a neighbor of Domingo discusses the blood on the sidewalk.

i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm241/portofleith-2008/2Goleta01.jpg

i have been told by a reliable source that the dog stabbing incident of 1979 was researched by LE and led nowhere, e.g if it was EAR who stabbed the dog, he is still unidentified.

The three toed German Shepherd info originated from a board poster who indicated Glasby used the dog. Glasby was not EAR. He was killed on the beach near El Ranchito/Michoacan with his brother in 1982. Logic would then suggest that the three toed dog may have been used by Glasby but not by EAR.

Did Ear have a perplexing relationship with dogs? Yes, including the police dogs who followed his scent. We have reports of EAR hurting dogs and we have contrasting reports of him being a dog whisperer.

JJ has posted excerpts of police reports on the Offerman Manning crime scene on his "CAsebook of the Bedroom Killer" site- no mention of dog prints in the vicinity.








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By PortofLeith
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10 months ago
953 Posts

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Re: What can we confirm about dogs
On the old board several guys were convinced that ear/ons scoped out a neighborhood by walking a dog in the neighborhood thereby not arousing suspicion.
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By Samk
Member
10 months ago
382 Posts
Glasby & Gloleta 2 & 3

I don't think anyone here would argue that Glasby was the ONS, for multiple reasons. But ...

Glasby did have a medical connection to Dr. Offerman who was killed by the ONS. And Glasby had access to a large dog, presumably a German Shepherd. Glasby lived in the vicinity of all three Goleta attacks. And there is evidence of a large, presumably German Shepherd, dog both at Goleta 2 and at Goleta 3.

I would surmise that the dog in some way links Glasby to the ONS. But we cannot say with absolute certainty what that linkage is, owing to LE's failure to conduct a thorough investigation at the time, and owing to LE's current refusal to release pertinent information.

The critical issue here is not EAR's relationship to dogs in general. The critical issue is the specific linkage between the ONS and the one large dog that shows up at the Goleta 2 murder site and at the Goleta 3 murder site, two crimes seperated in time by 19 months.














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Edited by Drifter, 10 months ago
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By Drifter
Member
10 months ago
371 Posts
I wonder
Why he didnt take the Dog to Goleta 1,the abortive attack.If he did there would have been a high chance that the Dog would be left behind.I think he was worried about being connected to Goleta 1 so thats why he had the Dog at 2 and 3 so he had an excuse for being in the neighbourhood.
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By briffyboy
Member
10 months ago
222 Posts
Re: What can we confirm about dogs
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By briffyboy
Member
10 months ago
222 Posts
Re: I wonder
Posted By: briffyboy
Why he didnt take the Dog to Goleta 1,the abortive attack.If he did there would have been a high chance that the Dog would be left behind.I think he was worried about being connected to Goleta 1 so thats why he had the Dog at 2 and 3 so he had an excuse for being in the neighbourhood.
Thats a very interesting question regarding the dog vis-a-vis Goleta 1, Goleta 1 is quite interesting in the context of all the Goleta attacks because a lot of things were odd in that crime like why did EAR not take a weapon to the crime scene ?

It seems like EAR learned a lot after that attack if you look at the changes he implemented when he went to the second Goleta crime scene..............part of me wonders whether EAR was over confident in his ability ad underestimated the victims with regards to Goleta 1 thus he almost got caught and hence he had to raise his game for the second attack ....
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By DanCartell
Member
10 months ago
683 Posts
weapons at the crime scene
Posted By: DanCartell
Posted By: briffyboy
Why he didnt take the Dog to Goleta 1,the abortive attack.If he did there would have been a high chance that the Dog would be left behind.I think he was worried about being connected to Goleta 1 so thats why he had the Dog at 2 and 3 so he had an excuse for being in the neighbourhood.
Thats a very interesting question regarding the dog vis-a-vis Goleta 1, Goleta 1 is quite interesting in the context of all the Goleta attacks because a lot of things were odd in that crime like why did EAR not take a weapon to the crime scene ?

It seems like EAR learned a lot after that attack if you look at the changes he implemented when he went to the second Goleta crime scene..............part of me wonders whether EAR was over confident in his ability ad underestimated the victims with regards to Goleta 1 thus he almost got caught and hence he had to raise his game for the second attack ....

Dan- We don't really know if EAR had a gun at Goleta Attack 1. We do know he was wearing a holster and that he used verbiage like "I'll blow your head off." . We also know that he established a pattern then, e.g. his preferred weapon in attempted murder or actual murders was to use something found in the victim's home(e,g, log at Smith's, perhaps a sprinkler head at Harringtons, perhaps a lamp at Witthuhn and a wrench at Cruz). He couldn't exactly chase Goleta Female 1 down the road shooting while the male was heading in the opposite direction.


He underestimated the power of fear in Goleta 1,2 and 3. These victims had not been versed in the fear felt in Sacramento. When EAR instructed females to tie males in Sacramento, it became a well-established pattern. In Goleta , EAR underestimated controlling the males. It is telling that while Sanchez was shot once, he did not die from bullet wounds. He died from a vicious bludgeoning, because that is how EAR ONS liked to kill.

If EAR was the dog stabber who was prowling the neighborhood , a week or so before Goleta 1, then he was establishing the same pattern as Sacramento. He didn't hesitate to use a gun if he needed to, e.g Miller in Sac.
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Edited by PortofLeith, 10 months ago
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By PortofLeith
Member
10 months ago
953 Posts
Re: weapons at the crime scene
Posted By: PortofLeith
Posted By: DanCartell
Posted By: briffyboy
Why he didnt take the Dog to Goleta 1,the abortive attack.If he did there would have been a high chance that the Dog would be left behind.I think he was worried about being connected to Goleta 1 so thats why he had the Dog at 2 and 3 so he had an excuse for being in the neighbourhood.
Thats a very interesting question regarding the dog vis-a-vis Goleta 1, Goleta 1 is quite interesting in the context of all the Goleta attacks because a lot of things were odd in that crime like why did EAR not take a weapon to the crime scene ?

It seems like EAR learned a lot after that attack if you look at the changes he implemented when he went to the second Goleta crime scene..............part of me wonders whether EAR was over confident in his ability ad underestimated the victims with regards to Goleta 1 thus he almost got caught and hence he had to raise his game for the second attack ....

Dan- We don't really know if EAR had a gun at Goleta Attack 1. We do know he was wearing a holster and that he used verbiage like "I'll blow your head off." . We also know that he established a pattern then, e.g. his preferred weapon in attempted murder or actual murders was to use something found in the victim's home(e,g, log at Smith's, perhaps a sprinkler head at Harringtons, perhaps a lamp at Witthuhn and a wrench at Cruz). He couldn't exactly chase Goleta Female 1 down the road shooting while the male was heading in the opposite direction.


He underestimated the power of fear in Goleta 1,2 and 3. These victims had not been versed in the fear felt in Sacramento. When EAR instructed females to tie males in Sacramento, it became a well-established pattern. In Goleta , EAR underestimated controlling the males. It is telling that while Sanchez was shot once, he did not die from bullet wounds. He died from a vicious bludgeoning, because that is how EAR ONS liked to kill.

If EAR was the dog stabber who was prowling the neighborhood , a week or so before Goleta 1, then he was establishing the same pattern as Sacramento. He didn't hesitate to use a gun if he needed to, e.g Miller in Sac.
Yeah I agree we dont really know whether he had a gun or not in Goleta 1but its quite telling that in the Rod Miller incident he shot Rod who had chased after him yet in Goleta 1 EAR did not shoot at the agent who chased after him down the road with the car......
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By DanCartell
Member
10 months ago
683 Posts
shooting positions

Dan,

Yes, there is a big difference in assuming the classic one knee shooting position(Miller) after jumping over a fence and waiting for your prey and trying to shoot a moving target on a bicycle.
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Edited by PortofLeith, 10 months ago
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By PortofLeith
Member
10 months ago
953 Posts
Re: shooting positions
Posted By: PortofLeith

Dan,

Yes, there is a big difference in assuming the classic one knee shooting position(Miller) after jumping over a fence and waiting for your prey and trying to shoot a moving target on a bicycle.
I was thinking maybe why didnt he shoot right after he got off the bike ......, this then brings me round to the knife..........did he dump it or did it fall off ?

There really are a lot of intriguing aspects around Goleta 1,for example, do you know if the responding officers quickly cordoned off the area and searched it? And did the responding officers first go to the victims house before starting to canvass the area EAR was last seen in or was it the other way round?

I have been intrigued about how he escaped from the area despite the fact that agent Los had him in his sights and cops were from the SBSD were closing in on the area and yet he vanished.........


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By DanCartell
Member
10 months ago
683 Posts
Bike Dumped
Posted By: DanCartell
Posted By: PortofLeith

Dan,

Yes, there is a big difference in assuming the classic one knee shooting position(Miller) after jumping over a fence and waiting for your prey and trying to shoot a moving target on a bicycle.
I was thinking maybe why didnt he shoot right after he got off the bike ......, this then brings me round to the knife..........did he dump it or did it fall off ?

There really are a lot of intriguing aspects around Goleta 1,for example, do you know if the responding officers quickly cordoned off the area and searched it? And did the responding officers first go to the victims house before starting to canvass the area EAR was last seen in or was it the other way round?

I have been intrigued about how he escaped from the area despite the fact that agent Los had him in his sights and cops were from the SBSD were closing in on the area and yet he vanished.........


Dan- Yes, there was a quick response from officers to the scene. Ear could hear the sirens as Los was chasing him. I wish Cashius still posted here because she was a patrol cop in this area at that time and could better describe how they performed dragnets there. You can read Los' detailed account of the chase at JJ's site.


The first thing to remember is that Queen Anne was flanked on two sides by deep ravines. I have attached a diagram here for you. Once Little Pinky dumped the bike and started hopping fences, he could have easily gotten back into the creekbed. It would have taken hundreds of national guardsmen and scent dogs to get him out of there. Also note on the diagram the proximity of Avenida Pequena where Offerman Manning were murdered, also right off the creek bed.

Of course, if Little Pinky didn't elude LE by re-entering the ravine, then another possibility is that he lived nearby and simply quietly entered his house and turned on his police scanner.. . .or made it to a car parked somewhere west of the crime scene.

i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm241/portofleith-2008/bikedump.jpg
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Edited by PortofLeith, 10 months ago
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By PortofLeith
Member
10 months ago
953 Posts
Re: Bike Dumped
Posted By: PortofLeith
Posted By: DanCartell
Posted By: PortofLeith

Dan,

Yes, there is a big difference in assuming the classic one knee shooting position(Miller) after jumping over a fence and waiting for your prey and trying to shoot a moving target on a bicycle.
I was thinking maybe why didnt he shoot right after he got off the bike ......, this then brings me round to the knife..........did he dump it or did it fall off ?

There really are a lot of intriguing aspects around Goleta 1,for example, do you know if the responding officers quickly cordoned off the area and searched it? And did the responding officers first go to the victims house before starting to canvass the area EAR was last seen in or was it the other way round?

I have been intrigued about how he escaped from the area despite the fact that agent Los had him in his sights and cops were from the SBSD were closing in on the area and yet he vanished.........


Dan- Yes, there was a quick response from officers to the scene. Ear could hear the sirens as Los was chasing him. I wish Cashius still posted here because she was a patrol cop in this area at that time and could better describe how they performed dragnets there. You can read Los' detailed account of the chase at JJ's site.


The first thing to remember is that Queen Anne was flanked on two sides by deep ravines. I have attached a diagram here for you. Once Little Pinky dumped the bike and started hopping fences, he could have easily gotten back into the creekbed. It would have taken hundreds of national guardsmen and scent dogs to get him out of there. Also note on the diagram the proximity of Avenida Pequena where Offerman Manning were murdered, also right off the creek bed.

Of course, if Little Pinky didn't elude LE by re-entering the ravine, then another possibility is that he lived nearby and simply quietly entered his house and turned on his police scanner.. . .or made it to a car parked somewhere west of the crime scene.

i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm241/portofleith-2008/bikedump.jpg
Interesting stuff , thanks for the diagram ...seeing the topology of the area in much clearer detail from the diagram is quite revealing ! . looking through the possible escape routes he may have taken from the area probably might explain why he chose to strike in this area of town.............
I hate to say this but it looks like Little Pinky was a bit clever regarding his escape and evasion tactics and planning......
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By DanCartell
Member
10 months ago
683 Posts

[Drifter]

Whitmeyer says VR=EAR.....how?
1. EAR left DNA and no fingerprints. 2. VR left fingerprints and no DNA. I want them both to be the same guy but until there's actual evidence shouldn't we stop forcing the connection? Unless there's EAR prints I'm not aware of or unless there's VR DNA that we don't know of I don't see how Whitmeyer made the connection.

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Edited by TheBadge, 9 months ago

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By TheBadge
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9 months ago
99 Posts



The connection

McGowen and Shipley traveled to Sacramento to brief the EAR task force about the Ransacker. The Sac Sheriff's office didn't see a connection, even though Visalia was convinced there was. Sound familiar?(Crompton trying to get So Cal to see the Ear/ONS linkage)

Out of the blue, the LA Times ran an article on July 23, 1978 titled "Sacramento East Area Rapist May be Visalia Killer" implicating the ransacker in both crime sprees. I haven't been able to determine which agency prompted that article.

This article appeared in 2001, prior to Whitmeyer's involvement. Here are excerpts:

Woman says she has made peace with husband's unsolved murder

Author: Jason Schultz; Staff

Article Text:

New clues may lead police to `The Ransacker'

By Jason Schultz

Times-Delta

Police call him "The Ransacker."

They believe he broke into homes in Visalia, Sacramento and Orange County, rummaged through possessions and took food from refrigerators.

Nothing much was ever taken, but police believe the man had another motive: He was looking for rape victims.

They also believe that on Sept. 11, 1975, he killed Claude Snelling, a journalism professor at College of the Sequoias. . . . . . .

Visalia Police Lt. Joe Ventura, who was on the force at the time, said the case is still open, and in fact investigators are looking into a possible clue they received from a source in Orange County, where a string of similar break-ins occurred a few years after "The Ransacker" crimes stopped in Visalia.



I am on the fence about the connection, but lean towards it existing. Strange burglaries are indeed "strange burglaries". Clearly there are some LE who still believe there is a connection.


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By PortofLeith
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9 months ago
950 Posts
PortofLeith Re: The connection
Posted By: PortofLeith

McGowen and Shipley traveled to Sacramento to brief the EAR task force about the Ransacker. The Sac Sheriff's office didn't see a connection, even though Visalia was convinced there was. Sound familiar?(Crompton trying to get So Cal to see the Ear/ONS linkage)

Out of the blue, the LA Times ran an article on July 23, 1978 titled "Sacramento East Area Rapist May be Visalia Killer" implicating the ransacker in both crime sprees. I haven't been able to determine which agency prompted that article.

This article appeared in 2001, prior to Whitmeyer's involvement. Here are excerpts:

Woman says she has made peace with husband's unsolved murder

Author: Jason Schultz; Staff

Article Text:

New clues may lead police to `The Ransacker'

By Jason Schultz

Times-Delta

Police call him "The Ransacker."

They believe he broke into homes in Visalia, Sacramento and Orange County, rummaged through possessions and took food from refrigerators.

Nothing much was ever taken, but police believe the man had another motive: He was looking for rape victims.

They also believe that on Sept. 11, 1975, he killed Claude Snelling, a journalism professor at College of the Sequoias. . . . . . .

Visalia Police Lt. Joe Ventura, who was on the force at the time, said the case is still open, and in fact investigators are looking into a possible clue they received from a source in Orange County, where a string of similar break-ins occurred a few years after "The Ransacker" crimes stopped in Visalia.



I am on the fence about the connection, but lean towards it existing. Strange burglaries are indeed "strange burglaries". Clearly there are some LE who still believe there is a connection.


A clue is different than ACTUAL EVIDENCE...MO would leave "clues", fingerprints or DNA is EVIDENCE. I'm aware of all the previous reports on VR being looked into as EAR/ONS but have they all been based on MO & Timing? That alone should raise suspicion but without EVIDENCE you're left with nothing but theory.
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By TheBadge
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9 months ago
99 Posts
Nothing but theory
And our Visalia LE certainly won't tell whether there is actual evidence (DNA/fingerprints) in the Snelling murder, but recently I spoke to a guy who was with the sheriff's department in 1975, and knew about the case, who said that there was a print. I know that there were prints taken from MANY of the ransacker's deeds, but whether there were cross-case fingerprints, or full fingerprints, or whatever...I don't know. I would love to have Salazar tell me, but when I asked him directly, no answer -- period. I do believe that our local LE are still working the case -- seriously working the case. Just MO and timing? I don't think so. Urit222 was told by Russ W. that fingerprints found at her home in the '80's matched the EAR/ONS. She tried to tell us that, but we on the board thought that she must have misunderstood. After talking to her, on several occassions, I believe that the VR/EAR/ONS had returned and was in Visalia for the five years prior to Janelle's murder.
And, to be sure, there are people in Visalia -- VERY RECENTLY -- who are being questioned about what they know. So, our LE are on it.
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By dengas
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9 months ago
959 Posts
Re: Nothing but theory
Posted By: dengas
And our Visalia LE certainly won't tell whether there is actual evidence (DNA/fingerprints) in the Snelling murder, but recently I spoke to a guy who was with the sheriff's department in 1975, and knew about the case, who said that there was a print. I know that there were prints taken from MANY of the ransacker's deeds, but whether there were cross-case fingerprints, or full fingerprints, or whatever...I don't know. I would love to have Salazar tell me, but when I asked him directly, no answer -- period. I do believe that our local LE are still working the case -- seriously working the case. Just MO and timing? I don't think so. Urit222 was told by Russ W. that fingerprints found at her home in the '80's matched the EAR/ONS. She tried to tell us that, but we on the board thought that she must have misunderstood. After talking to her, on several occassions, I believe that the VR/EAR/ONS had returned and was in Visalia for the five years prior to Janelle's murder.
And, to be sure, there are people in Visalia -- VERY RECENTLY -- who are being questioned about what they know. So, our LE are on it.
Yeah but LE would have to have VR's DNA in order to know if he's EAR. According to everything on the board LE doesn't have VR's DNA, they have his prints.
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By TheBadge
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9 months ago
99 Posts
VR DNA
And I don't know whether Visalia has VR's DNA or not. If they did, and it matched the EAR/ONS, wouldn't they make that information public? How long did they know about the ONS/EAR match before it became known? I'm serious. Wouldn't it be public knowledge if there were a match? So, round and round with no answers because Visalia LE isn't sharing, and Russ W. may have spoken out of turn, or he was making it up. If he was making the VR/EAR/ONS connection up, then one would have to ask why? Why did he tell Urit222 that prints from her house matched EAR/ONS? She didn't even know about EAR/ONS. Badge, whether VRis EAR/ONS remains a mystery, and it is as big a mystery as who EAR/ONS is.
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By dengas
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9 months ago
959 Posts
NO EAR/ONS prints?
So, back to your statement, Badge, there are no EAR/ONS prints, right? Then RW had to have been full of CRAP. Again, did he have a purpose for what he said to Urit222? And, another question...what does Larry P. think of a connection? Is he 50/50, more, or less in his belief in a connection between VR and EAR/ONS?
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By dengas
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9 months ago
959 Posts
Re: VR DNA
Posted By: dengas
And I don't know whether Visalia has VR's DNA or not. If they did, and it matched the EAR/ONS, wouldn't they make that information public? How long did they know about the ONS/EAR match before it became known? I'm serious. Wouldn't it be public knowledge if there were a match? So, round and round with no answers because Visalia LE isn't sharing, and Russ W. may have spoken out of turn, or he was making it up. If he was making the VR/EAR/ONS connection up, then one would have to ask why? Why did he tell Urit222 that prints from her house matched EAR/ONS? She didn't even know about EAR/ONS. Badge, whether VRis EAR/ONS remains a mystery, and it is as big a mystery as who EAR/ONS is.

These ransackings were the precursor to rapings, and came after a period of peeping, so they are sexual in nature. I have a hard time believing that VR didnt leave semen at any of these crime scenes. Did they even bother to look for it, inside or outside of the homes?

Let me make it explicit: he had to have masturbated in at least some of these homes.
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By the confidence is the balaclava
Member
9 months ago
469 Posts
Preservation of evidence
Back in 1974 there was no such thing as DNA. Also, rape had a statute of limitations. Thanks to Larry Crompton we have information and evidence from Contra Costa County that would have been destroyed when the statute ran out. I wonder if LE even threw out fingerprints from the VR, if there were any. I imagine anything with DNA would not have been recognized as evidence, or of value back then.
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By Sandia
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9 months ago
1329 Posts
masturbating
Posted By: the confidence is the balaclava
Posted By: dengas
And I don't know whether Visalia has VR's DNA or not. If they did, and it matched the EAR/ONS, wouldn't they make that information public? How long did they know about the ONS/EAR match before it became known? I'm serious. Wouldn't it be public knowledge if there were a match? So, round and round with no answers because Visalia LE isn't sharing, and Russ W. may have spoken out of turn, or he was making it up. If he was making the VR/EAR/ONS connection up, then one would have to ask why? Why did he tell Urit222 that prints from her house matched EAR/ONS? She didn't even know about EAR/ONS. Badge, whether VRis EAR/ONS remains a mystery, and it is as big a mystery as who EAR/ONS is.

These ransackings were the precursor to rapings, and came after a period of peeping, so they are sexual in nature. I have a hard time believing that VR didnt leave semen at any of these crime scenes. Did they even bother to look for it, inside or outside of the homes?

Let me make it explicit: he had to have masturbated in at least some of these homes.
Well. . . if sticky lotion bottles and disturbed lingerie suggest masturbating, then yes. The lotion bottle is a trait the VR and EAR shared.
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By PortofLeith
Member
9 months ago
950 Posts
lingerie
And, rape or not, wouldn't they have kept the "used" lingerie as evidence anyways? In one of the latter newspaper articles, it shows LE with boxes and boxes relating to the VR. I'd love to know what's in the boxes; hopefully they aren't just filled with reports.
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By dengas
Member
9 months ago
959 Posts
Re: Re: VR DNA
Posted By: the confidence is the balaclava
Posted By: dengas
And I don't know whether Visalia has VR's DNA or not. If they did, and it matched the EAR/ONS, wouldn't they make that information public? How long did they know about the ONS/EAR match before it became known? I'm serious. Wouldn't it be public knowledge if there were a match? So, round and round with no answers because Visalia LE isn't sharing, and Russ W. may have spoken out of turn, or he was making it up. If he was making the VR/EAR/ONS connection up, then one would have to ask why? Why did he tell Urit222 that prints from her house matched EAR/ONS? She didn't even know about EAR/ONS. Badge, whether VRis EAR/ONS remains a mystery, and it is as big a mystery as who EAR/ONS is.

These ransackings were the precursor to rapings, and came after a period of peeping, so they are sexual in nature. I have a hard time believing that VR didnt leave semen at any of these crime scenes. Did they even bother to look for it, inside or outside of the homes?

Let me make it explicit: he had to have masturbated in at least some of these homes.
It has been said that at one of the homes VR ransacked he "perused" through a copy of Playboy magazine and may have used lotion........so I guess if you fill in the blanks its most likely he did. The problem is that the VR crimes pre-date DNA ,so even if evidence (i.e. semen) was collected it probably wouldnt have been stored correctly hence the chances of getting a profile are low.........
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By DanCartell
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9 months ago
683 Posts
Re: Whitmeyer says VR=EAR.....how?

I knew it. And he wouldnt have taken the semen with him or flushed it. He would have left the semen where it would be found, by a woman. So it mustve been on some underwear in a few panty drawers of the occupants, etc.

LE knew that some ransackings were sexual in nature. Pervs have been stealing women's unmentionable's probably since they were invented. They would have known that they would find semen, because pervs who break in to steal the underwear sometimes do things to them. Masturbate with/on them or other clothes, shoes, etc. Or leave things like chewed gum in them. Theyre being aggressive, trying to shock and scare the victim. Telling them that they cant be safe in their space and that he's got the power to dominate it...all of it; your panties or your peanutbutter, they all belong to him. Reminds me of a guy I know.

And sometimes those sexually aggressive acts are a precursor to rapes. What Im saying is, they should have taken the semen as evidence anyway. They should have known better. VR wasnt a nuisance, he was terrorizing that community by hitting so many places. And they mustve guessed that things were bound to take a turn and get ugly at some point because: law of averages. VR was going to get more aggressive, VR was going to rape someone, VR was going to get surprised by an occupant and hurt/kill them, etc
And they did when he tired to abduct that girl (did he also beat her?) for rape or murder or both, and that itself ended in murder when her dad tried to stop the crime in commission. Sad.

They wouldve/shouldve taken the semen for the same reasons that they take it in a rape. It could have told them something, at least, about the criminal that they couldnt get a bead on in over 100 ransackings. Who's brilliant LE work was it to make the decision to not take the semen, but just do a stake out? They thought it would be easy to catch this guy by groundwork after 100 B&Es?

As for deteriorated semen, Im not sure what they can do with that kind of specimen. but youd think they would get at least some info from it. If dengas is right, VR's semen and possibly hair might be in some box somewhere, if the box/es exist.

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By the confidence is the balaclava
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9 months ago
469 Posts
Re: Re: Whitmeyer says VR=EAR.....how?
Posted By: the confidence is the balaclava

If dengas is right, VR's semen and possibly hair might be in some box somewhere, if the box/es exist.

That's the point I'm trying to make. For someone like Whitmeyer to make a statement that EAR IS VR they would have to have prints from EAR to compare them to VR. OR they'd have to have DNA from VR to compare it to EAR. I was always under the impression that they had DNA from EAR but not from VR. They had prints from VR but not from EAR...if true, what would they have to compare the two?
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By TheBadge
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9 months ago
99 Posts

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[Drifter]

Who is Agnes Park?

Reading through an old Sac Bee article (5/20/77), I found a message to a witness that had made contact and LE was asking the witness to re-contact them.

"NOTE: Will the witness known as Agnes Park please call"

It was located in the middle of the article and offset by dark bold lines. Anyone know?

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By JaneDoe
Member
2 years ago
366 Posts



Article in Question

www.jjmcgr.org/BK/Clippings/770520.pdf

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By MovieMan
Member
2 years ago
297 Posts

Re: Article in Question
Thank you MovieMan. That's the one.

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By JaneDoe
Member
2 years ago
366 Posts

Code name assigned to Secret Witness
I believe it's a code name for someone who called the Secret Witness number.

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By PortofLeith
Member
2 years ago
954 Posts

[Drifter]

why ear /ons started to kill

my question is people resisted him in sacaremnto and he never killed

why did he start killing later he didin't need to

i doubt that anyone could have identified him even he didin't kill

it makes no sense ,he was a succesful rapist without getting caught

why kill it would have been more pressure on him





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By aldren
Member
2 years ago
8 Posts



Re: The Thrill
Posted By: JaneDoe

I believe EARONS raped for the thrill. It brought him the deviant pleasure he so desired. When raping was no longer fulfilling....killing brought him the deviant pleasure he so desired. Power and Control.

EARONS sexuality was in direct conflict with his values. This, I think is why he has/had been able to stop himself for the periods of time that he did. In other words, EARONS value system was the cause of the highest degree of pressure on himself.



Bingo, but I would venture to say that the pressure was not from his "personal values." It came from the people he was surrounded by "environmental values": family, friends, associates, maybe his job. The people surrounding him had high morals and he knew that he did not, this is where the conflict arises. He didn't feel guilt about killings, but was worried about how people would view him.

@ arch: Well, lets just say he never visited my house because I would win Violent, quick, and without hesitation is how one must kill evil; war can be hell sometimes but teaches you how to survive. Anyway, he "prayed" on people he thought he could control, which explains a lot about Offerman and not negatively.
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Edited by waterfrogger, 2 years ago
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By waterfrogger
Member
2 years ago
123 Posts
Re: why ear /ons started to kill
This was an edit but it deserved its own post.

Offerman could have just been "unlucky." Nevertheless, he did murder two more men (I know he raped a lot of couples but read on) but believe me that kind of luck would not last forever. During SERE school there are about 50+ students and out of that many usually only 5 decide to die with the Code of Conduct (they don't actually die). And, this is from a military populations; therefore, the average civilian population is less or the same 10%. This means that there are not many people who are willing to die when at a disadvantage. Eventually though, he would pick the wrong a-hole and be surprised by how violent and dark another person is willing to go when faced with a flight or fight scenario while at a tremendous disadvantage. Those people are out there and those are the people he wanted to stay away from.

Conclusion: EAR scouted carefully, planned accordingly, enjoyed the aftermath, had the statistical advantage, and Clausewitz "luck" factor was on his side. I do believe he rehearsed some of the crimes meaning he was present at the locations to "mentally of physically" practice his M.O. But with all these factors on his side, he would not be invincible. The biggest take away is the rehearsals but that is really nothing new about serial rapist/murderers.
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By waterfrogger
Member
2 years ago
123 Posts

[Drifter]

Why not Los Angeles County?

Santa Barbara, Ventura, and Orange, but not Los Angeles, which is between Orange and the other two and is almost as large as the other two combined.

My thought is that if the EAR/ONS did offend in Los Angeles, the high crime rate and dense population would account for why we don't know about it. His hypothetic Los Angeles crime(s) have been absorbed by the enormity of unsolved crimes in that county.

Here's a case, for instance, to which I can find no other reference. I have no idea if it was solved or not.

I don't think one way or the other about it being the EAR/ONS (some similarities, but also some significant differences in the manner in which she was found), but perhaps my larger point is that, I don't think a single word has been printed about this murder since 1981.

WOMAN WHO GAVE ADDRESS FOUND SLAIN
By ERIC MALNIC, Times Staff Writer

(Los Angeles Times, July 21, 1981)

A woman attorney found bludgeoned to death in her West Side apartment had recently placed a classified advertisement that included her home address, friends and relatives said Monday.

The body of Patricia O'Donnell, 30, was discovered Sunday afternoon by her new boyfriend, West Hollywood psychiatrist Louis Weisberg, who became concerned when she failed to answer her phone, according to police.

"She had left both the front and back doors open," said her sister, Robert O'Donnell, who talked to Weisberg after his discovery. "She wasn't afraid...And there was that dumb ad for a roommate."

Police Lt. Glenn Ackerman, who is heading the murder investigation, said the department has no evidence to link the woman's death to her placement of the newspaper ad. He declined to say what other leads the department was pursuiing.

Last to See Victim

Police said Weisberg was apparently the last person known to see the woman alive. He had dropped her off at her apartment about 8 a.m. Saturday.

After his calls went unanswered, investigators said, the psychiatrist returned to the apartment Sunday afternoon. Finding the doors unlocked, he entered and discovered her slouched in a living room chair.

O'Donnell apparently died from a massive blow delivered by a blunt instrument, police said. Nothing was known to be missing from the apartment, there were no signs of ransacking and neighbors said they heard no sounds of an attack. The weapon that struck the woman was not immediately recovered.

O'Donnell's first job as a lawyer was for Beverly Hills attorney William Jerome Pollack. A fellow employee there, who asked not to be identified, remembered her as "a pretty shy person who was kind of quiet until you get to know her."

Met Another Attorney

While working for Pollack, she met Allen Michel, an attorney working for another firm.

"They were really happy with one another, talking about the possibility of marriage," the dead woman's former colleague said. "They decided to move in together."

Michel said Monday he and O'Donnell moved into the two-bedroom apartment on Glenville Avenue, just south of the Beverly Hills line, about a year ago. Both pursued their separate careers.

Most of the work O'Donnell did for Pollack involved personal injury cases, Michel said, and interested in more variety, she began looking for another job.

"About two months ago, she got her big break," Michel said. "She got a new job with (Century City attorney Richard) Di Santis," whose firm "handles all sorts of things..."

"She was so happy she floated about 20 miles off the ground."

Employer Pleased

Di Santis said he was very pleased with her work.

He chose her from a group of about 100 applicants, he said, because "she had the right attitude toward law—an intense, intellectual spirit for it... A lot of people are interested in the fast buck, but not her," he said. "Her approach was sincere."

But her relationship with Michel soured about a month ago, Michel said. He moved out of the apartment on Glenville Avenue.

It was then that she decided to get a roommate.

"She put everything in that ad," Robert O'Donnell said.

"She said it was a two-bedroom apartment, she said she wanted a woman roommate and she put her exact address in it. It didn't take much to figure out that meant a woman was living there alone."

In addition to the classified ad, Michel said, his ex-girlfriend scattered advertising cards about the UCLA campus containing the same information.

"It was a very stupid thing to do," he said, "but she was upset and not thinking clearly. She was upset about our breaking up.."

"I just can't believe this has happened."

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By SpeakelOfEngrish
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2 years ago
1090 Posts

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Why not LA county?
Speakel,
I agree that he could have been offending elsewhere. I also believe that his affinity for Orange County could also be affirmation that he was from the southern San Joaquin Valley or Goleta. Orange County then, was not as densely populated as it is today. There would have been a certain comfort level in the housing tracts in the San Joaquin Valley, including Sacramento as in Orange County and Goleta/Ventura. I'm not quite certain EARS ONS felt comfortable in more cosmopolitan or ethnically diverse areas. Orange County then was a very politically conservative base as was the San Joaquin Valley.
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By PortofLeith
Member
2 years ago
954 Posts
Re: Why not LA county?
Very good points, Port. My thoughts previously re: Los Angeles county have been that he wouldn't have been afforded the degree of space and darkness he exploited in other places. It only just really occurred to me, however, that if he did offend somewhere like LA, we'd probably not know about it. Interesting observation re: the conservative leanings of Orange County and the San Joaquin Valley. Not sure what to derive from it, but the timing makes me smile, as I was just hours ago noticing the checkered leanings of Santa Barbara's political demographics: conservative in the 1920s, democratic in the 30s and early 40s, conservative again from the mid-40s through the the early 60s, democratic in the mid-60s, conservative from the late 60s through the late 80s, and liberal from the early 90s to date. Orange County, as far as I know, has remained red for the past several decades. How this all relates to the ONS, I don't know, but I guess it need not in order to be interesting. I probably now know California better than I know my home state.
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By SpeakelOfEngrish
Member
2 years ago
1090 Posts
Re: Why not Los Angeles County?
I started a post about this back in January, asking the exact same question. Why didn't he murder in LA if he murdered in LA-neighboring counties on 6 different occasions? Or did he murder there and it was never connected? His murder sites criss-crossed LA county 3 times throughout the murder timeline. Los Angeles is never mentioned in this case (that I know of, someone please correct me if I’m wrong) besides the one time where EAR said he was going to LA in his van (or something along those lines). I think it’s very interesting...
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By Sherlox
Member
2 years ago
152 Posts
Re: Why not Los Angeles County?
Well, LA might be needle in a haystack time and Disneyland for this guy! Let's imagine sometime not too long after 1986 he gets wind of DNA, stops leaving it, and alters his MO greatly.....It would be very very tough to connect anything to him if this were the case......
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By erikdavid5111
Member
2 years ago
570 Posts
Interesting point....Why not Los Angeles County?
I suspect that since this guy liked upscale neighborhoods it would have been tighter to operate in upscale places like some parts of Hollywood given that LA county is highly urbanised ,people are and probably were back then more security conscious than places like 1970s Sacramento, small towns like Goleta; another thing could be maybe he cased out LA county but found it unfavourable to operate there - interestingly I saw Speakels post on the gaps in the ONS activity , there was a 5 month gap between some of his known crimes in SB and Orange county, could he have been in LA county in this time casing it out?, maybe he tried something but did not succeed in LA county . Another point is with the high crime rates in LA county back then its probable that police were patroling regularly in upscale neighborhoods of LA county this guy could have favored . Also if you look at LA county in the late 70s and early 80s several infamous serial killers operated there and were caught and subsequently sentenced to death etc, could this this have swayed the EAR to decide to operate in smaller jurisdictions?. It could also be true that he could have raped and /or killed there and the connection hasn't been made because LA county has (according to a recent estimate ) around 9000 cold cases and in a lot of them evidence has not been tested for DNA etc- remember the large backlog on rape kits?
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By DanCartell
Member
2 years ago
683 Posts
How do we know he didn't?
We know that at least two jurisdictions (Walnut Creek and Santa Barbara County) either denied the existence of EAR/ONS or denied that he was offending in their jurisdiction. The politics of being unable to catch a serial rapist/killer in your midst cause elected officials and the people they hire to do things they wouldn't do normally. Like lie. Remember the half joking remark about Sac Sheriff Lowe losing his re-election bid if he didn't catch EAR. He was running unopposed.
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By f1guyus
Member
2 years ago
1270 Posts
Re: Interesting point....Why not Los Angeles County?
Posted By: DanCartell
I suspect that since this guy liked upscale neighborhoods it would have been tighter to operate in upscale places like some parts of Hollywood given that LA county is highly urbanised ,people are and probably were back then more security conscious than places like 1970s Sacramento, small towns like Goleta; another thing could be maybe he cased out LA county but found it unfavourable to operate there - interestingly I saw Speakels post on the gaps in the ONS activity , there was a 5 month gap between some of his known crimes in SB and Orange county, could he have been in LA county in this time casing it out?, maybe he tried something but did not succeed in LA county . Another point is with the high crime rates in LA county back then its probable that police were patroling regularly in upscale neighborhoods of LA county this guy could have favored . Also if you look at LA county in the late 70s and early 80s several infamous serial killers operated there and were caught and subsequently sentenced to death etc, could this this have swayed the EAR to decide to operate in smaller jurisdictions?. It could also be true that he could have raped and /or killed there and the connection hasn't been made because LA county has (according to a recent estimate ) around 9000 cold cases and in a lot of them evidence has not been tested for DNA etc- remember the large backlog on rape kits?
Maybe he had contact with LE there, so avoided that county for his rapes and murders.
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By ladyofthelake
Member
2 years ago
209 Posts
Re: How do we know he didn't?
Posted By: f1guyus
We know that at least two jurisdictions (Walnut Creek and Santa Barbara County) either denied the existence of EAR/ONS or denied that he was offending in their jurisdiction. The politics of being unable to catch a serial rapist/killer in your midst cause elected officials and the people they hire to do things they wouldn't do normally. Like lie. Remember the half joking remark about Sac Sheriff Lowe losing his re-election bid if he didn't catch EAR. He was running unopposed.
We don't know if he did and don't know if he didn't. That was a point made in my original thread. We know that nothing from L.A. County has been linked to him. I was inviting exploration as to why.
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By SpeakelOfEngrish
Member
2 years ago
1090 Posts
SOE: L.A. Is Worth Consideration

Hi SOE--

This is another avenue that should be explored. California especially was a ripe environment in the 1970s and 1980s for serial murderers, and with notorious acts like the Hillside Stranglers, the various freeway predators, etc., EAR/ONS could have easily blended in and wreaked havoc in Los Angeles County. Another trip to Records to study crimes containing EAR/ONS M.O. and signature for L.A. crimes should be on the investigators' agenda.

AE7
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By AngelEyes7
Member
2 years ago
247 Posts

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[Drifter]

WItthuhn

Does anyone know what made police think that ONS was surprised when he discovered that David Witthuhn was not there? I am just entertaining the idea that maybe it was the other way around. Maybe he knew he was not there and that is why he struck. Afterall, he waited until Janelle was all alone.

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By lawstudent1
Member
3 years ago
316 Posts



Re: WItthuhn
It is believed that he either chose Manuela as a second choice or that he was unaware David was in the hospital. There are EAR cases where the intended victim was not available and he attacked another victim. I believe it was thought that Manuela may not of been an intended victim. I will find the exact information on that tomorrow for you.
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By guessting
Member
3 years ago
2045 Posts
Re: WItthuhn
Witthuhn was also the only one of the cases showed signs of forced entry. This is in the FDLE report.
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By guessting
Member
3 years ago
2045 Posts
Re: WItthuhn
David was my friend and we spoke a few times regarding the case. He also contacted another friend also that was on the last board but is not on here. he always said that his hospital visit was sudden and a few other things that took my curiousity but I never tried to put it too far. However what he told me, and in appreciation those will understand (I will not talk of past conversations) I made my mind up on a few issues. Davis was a wonderful man and will be sadly missed. I believe that ONS knew quite well David was in hospital. I also believe that he struck at the time he did because he would not have been able to handle David. I still and always will believe that the ONS lived near both David and Mz Cruz and still living in the same area. he is a creature of habit. I do not entertain the idea for one moment that he did not know David was not there. Like I said, he plans to the last T, and he knows what is going on. I also believe that he may have not known exactly when David was returning and may have called the house to be precise. Another reason why he took their answering machine! The ONS used a screwdriver on the back sliding door to gain entry and furthermore don't believe everything you read in the morning news! Strange calls had been received at the house leading up to the murder. This thing does not leave anything to chance, be assured that he knows exactly what he is doing at all times.
Ausprofiler1
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By Ausprofiler1a
Member
3 years ago
90 Posts
Re: WItthuhn

The phone calls are consistent with the EAR cases, those cases also have evidence that shows some spur of the moment selctions of victims as do the South cases. When he has selected a victim and finds the victim is not present he chooses a secondary victim and she becomes the target. In the ONS cases there is evidence to suggest this. I cannot say whether Manuella was or was not for sure his primary target, but I do know it has been considered the she may not of been.

I don't believe ONS would choose a victim and not believe he could overpower whoever was in the home. David had health issues and suggesting ONS waited until he went into the hospital to attack just does not feel right to me. David had an infection, not something scheduled that could of been planned or predicted. ONS spent alot of time in the neighborhoods he attacked in. I could be wrong. I just cannot say why David would of been any different than any of the other men ONS killed. Remember, both Offerman and Sanchez attempted to fight. They were killed, why would it be any more difficult to kill David? g
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Edited by guessting, 3 years ago
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By guessting
Member
3 years ago
2045 Posts
I believe that......
maybe after realizing that the husband wasn't in he went into high gear because previously he had killed 3 couples and there was now some speculation in the press at the time whether the murders were linked and whether the EAR was responsible therefore by raping and murdering a woman alone in the house and staging it a bit it would throw off detectives who probably would have viewed the murder as unconnected to the murder of the couples
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By DanCartell
Member
2 years ago
683 Posts
Re: WItthuhn

EAR/ONS may have worked with Manuela at the bank. Probably someone who had lived in Sac as a teenager to his early 20s and had transfered to her location from another branch. Or ear/ons could have worked with David at his car dealership. This guy probably knew David was in the hospital. I am backing up my point because he tried to alter the crime scene. Why would he do that if he did not know her.
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Edited by Peterlee, 2 years ago
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By Peterlee
Member
2 years ago
319 Posts
Re: Re: WItthuhn
Posted By: Peterlee

EAR/ONS may have worked with Manuela at the bank. Probably someone who had lived in Sac as a teenager to his early 20s and had transfered to her location from another branch. Or ear/ons could have worked with David at his car dealership. This guy probably knew David was in the hospital. I am backing up my point because he tried to alter the crime scene. Why would he do that if he did not know her.
Interesting you mention the possibility of a car dealership....there have been several suggestions here of EAR possibly working with cars and I am one of those advocates and yeah the staging of the scene suggests he wanted to create a red herring for the investigators
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By DanCartell
Member
2 years ago
683 Posts
Re: WItthuhn
DanCartell, you make a good point. I think it was mentioned somewhere that David worked for a Mercades Benz car dealership. I think it was in the car parts section that he worked. Being that both BMW and Mercades Benz cars are imported from Germany. Some of the dealerships carry both german cars and parts. I think there is a possibility that ear/ons may have worked at that dealership. Most likely he would be an employee that had worked in Sac before.
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By Peterlee
Member
2 years ago
319 Posts
Staging/Car Dealership/Bank/Frequency

Peterlee,

That is good thinking. Why would staging be needed if Manuela was a random victim. I have to reread Detective Crompton's book but wasn't there a case of staging in northern California on some of his rapes too though?

The Car Dealership is a good point and did Janelle Cruz's mother also work at a bank? I can't recall if she did, I do recall she suggested her daughter date a young man that worked at her bank. If EAR/ONS had some connection to the car dealership or the bank or possibly knew Manuela in some capacity, a neighbor?, that could explain the staging of a robbery. Of course as Dan said attacking a woman alone could be to throw LE off from making a connection to the other murders and possibly staging the robbery might be for the same reason. Janelle and Manuela lived close to each other, I wonder what they may have had in common. Same bank? Gym membership? Shop at same market?

It is clear the EAR/ONS monster lived in Sacramento for 2 years and San Francisco Bay area about 2 years and probably in Visalia 2 years. Why move every 2 years? Military? School?

I wonder if he still lives in Northern California. When you look at the frequency of the attacks, it is clear he lived there. When he started to murder, he may have chosen to because he was far from home. The frequency of the attacks in Southern California could mean he had a job that brought him back down to Southern California every 5 to 6 months. Did he have customers in Goleta and Orange County? Was he a trucker? Could it be he stayed in certain favorite motels for a time while on his business trips; or the two trips to Irvine, could they have been to bring his family to Disneyland? Just trying to brain storm. So many questions, so little answers.
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Edited by Sandia, 2 years ago
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By Sandia
Member
2 years ago
1382 Posts
Re: WItthuhn

Good post all! Great data dump.

I like these angles: bank and car dealership (I like many other too). Staging probably means the he is reading the newspaper, but we all know that.

Staging in Irvine? Well, was there anything at all about EAR in greater LA at that particular time? If not, then maybe he did know the couple in some fashion.

Did he stage Cruz?
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Edited by waterfrogger, 2 years ago
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By waterfrogger
Member
2 years ago
123 Posts
Re: WItthuhn

If he worked for a bank as an auditor then most likely that bank would send him around to different branches to do audits of different accounts. Particularly, if the banks suspect there is mortgage fraud.at a branch. That would explain his moves. Or he could also be employed as a trainer so he travel to various branches to train employees.

He could have been a trainer for several bank branches or a series of car dealerships. That would explain his moves. This would make him be on the move constantly so it would be difficult for L.E. to track him.
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Edited by Peterlee, 2 years ago
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By Peterlee
Member
2 years ago
319 Posts
Greater L.A.
Waterfrogger, No he apparently skipped L.A. county. At least that is what is reported.
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By Sandia
Member
2 years ago
1382 Posts
Re: Greater L.A.
Posted By: Sandia
Waterfrogger, No he apparently skipped L.A. county. At least that is what is reported.
Thanks watermelon, but I am still improving my writing skills. I think what I wanted to say is the following: Was there anything in the newspapers about EAR during the Goleta, Irvine, and Laguna Niguel Murders? And, was Cruz's staged?
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By waterfrogger
Member
2 years ago
123 Posts
Re: Re: WItthuhn
Posted By: guessting
Witthuhn was also the only one of the cases showed signs of forced entry. This is in the FDLE report.
I wonder if Witthuhn and David normally locked their doors or left them open. Since he wound up in the hospital, maybe she locked the house while they were at the hospital and when she was later home alone. The rapist/murderer may have cased their home before, but found it locked that night, thus forcing his entry. Just a thought.
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By ladyofthelake
Member
2 years ago
209 Posts
By The 80's
Most people were locking their doors. We had the house secured so someone seeking entry would have to break glass. Cops told us that was about the best we could do if somebody really wanted in..
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By f1guyus
Member
2 years ago
1265 Posts
Waterfrogger--Janelle's crime scene was not staged
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By MovieMan
Member
2 years ago
297 Posts
Re: Re: Greater L.A.
Posted By: waterfrogger
Posted By: Sandia
Waterfrogger, No he apparently skipped L.A. county. At least that is what is reported.
Thanks watermelon, but I am still improving my writing skills. I think what I wanted to say is the following: Was there anything in the newspapers about EAR during the Goleta, Irvine, and Laguna Niguel Murders? And, was Cruz's staged?
I do not know if there was anything in the newspapers during that time, grasshopper. I think others may know the answer to that though. Watermelon lol
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By Sandia
Member
2 years ago
1382 Posts

[Drifter]

Wooden Matches and Green Fibers

If EAR/ONS was into perverted sex....could the green fibers have come from a paddle he may have used on himself or victim that he carried in his kit. The wooden matches could have been used for self mutilation? There is a thing called "cell popping branding" where a person will burn very small areas of their skin over and over until they have a large design. Maybe this was a way EAR/ONS kept a tally of his victims.....it's a weird thought I know but it's happening out there in the world and has been happening for centuries.

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By JaneDoe
Member
2 years ago
366 Posts




Wooden Matches/Green Fibers
I'll put my 2 cents worth in since no one else has answered. I know nothing, these are just my thoughts. Could the wooden matches simply be the type of matches he used as he was known to smoke. I was thinking the fibers might be from the towels he tore up to gag and tie up his victims (but then they would not always be green.) Someone else said they thought the green fibers were grass, however I have never heard grass described as "fibers" before. I wish the detectives would release more information. It might mean something to someone and ring a bell.
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By Sandia
Member
2 years ago
1382 Posts
Wooden Matches/Green Fibers
I can't recall where I heard this, but I remember someone stating that the green fibers were "sprinkled" on the tied victim's back, in a sort of ritual. Not grass, definitely fibers.
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By Dogs
Member
2 years ago
51 Posts
Green Fibers
I have read it not only in Larry Crompton's book but elsewhere. I had these notes from somewhere before the book came out: Offerman/Manning murder: green particles of an unknown origin sprinkled around her, Domingo/Sanchez murder: unknown fibers scattered over Cheri's body, Smith murders: fibers on Charlene's ankle, Manuela Wittthuhn: ball of fibers on her spine. I have a question. These fibers I imagine were not thrown out if they are evidence and clues to murders and no statute of limitations. How is it possible these fibers are of an unknown nature? With today's technology I think they can find out what the fibers were. Very very strange and ritualistic. Releasing what these fibers were could lead to solving this case possibly. Why not release them after all these years. It seems too much has been held back.
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By Sandia
Member
2 years ago
1382 Posts
3 toed dog
How many 3 toed dogs are there? How many show up at two murder scenes. It was mentioned Brett Glasby had some connection to a 3 toed dog. Could this be a genetic mutation and there could be 3 toed decendant dogs around, or would this have been due to the dog having a mishap. Anyway, this is such a huge clue. Does anyone know anything about the 3 toed dog? About how Brett Glasby had a connection to it? His friend, his brother? had such a dog?
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By Sandia
Member
2 years ago
1382 Posts
Re: 3 toed dog
I agree that this is significant, and I think friends, relatives, and former associates of the Glasbys should be re-interviewed and examined.
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By SpeakelOfEngrish
Member
2 years ago
1090 Posts
I agree SOE...
The three-toed dog is one of the biggest 'red flags' in this case.
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By SammyT
Member
2 years ago
433 Posts
As for the green fibres I am flummoxed,The wooden matches could be....
that maybe he wanted to see something but did not want to switch on the lights on in case the victims saw him or his clothing or anything that could identify him.............anyway this got me thinking ....does anyone know if EAR ever raped with the lights on?
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By DanCartell
Member
2 years ago
683 Posts
.

I believe the green fibers were deliberately used to deceit LE. I remember reading somewhere he tried changing his MO in some of the murders so LE wouldn't connect him to EAR. Iv'e always thought the 3 toed dog was a red flag in this case.
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Edited by FindVREARONS, 2 years ago
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By FindVREARONS
Member
2 years ago
2 Posts
Green fibers

masscases.com/cases/sjc/409/409mass408.html Green fibers may have been from a home made gun silencer using Scotch Brite pad. Pads have been around since 1958
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Edited by tikiliki, 2 years ago
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By tikiliki
Member
2 years ago
11 Posts
Re: Wooden Matches and Green Fibers
my first thought was a Scotch Brite pad too, since as you scrub with them the green fibers fall
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By lbtism
Member
2 years ago
1 Post
Fibers were from a towel in at least one crime scene.

Actually I read that the green fibers were identified as coming from the green towel he tore to use to bind the victim, I can't recall which victim.

However my notes did say GREEN PARTICLES springled AROUND Alexandra Manning.

Unknown GREEN FIBERS scattered OVER Cheri Domingo.

I know EAR/ONS was known to deposit items from one victim's home in another victim's home. Not every home is going to have a GREEN towel, could it be he kept these fibers from the towel at Offerman/Manning and then deposited them on Cheri like some kind of calling card, or rather as some sort of weird ritual?

"Fibers" with no mention of color were left on Charllene Smith's ankle.

A ball of fibers with no mention of color was left on the spine of Manuela.

Question 1: Does anyone know if these fibers were ALWAYS green, if so could they have all come from the same green towel? If the fibers were not always from a towel, how is it possible to be unknown fibers in this day and age. They have to know what the fibers were.

2) If these fibers were a calling card how does that square with trying to change his m.o. so police wouldn't connect the crimes?
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Edited by Sandia, 2 years ago
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By Sandia
Member
2 years ago
1382 Posts
Re: Wooden Matches and Green Fibers
Many maintence men who work in fast food restaurants at night cleaning the place, cleaning fry cookers and cleaning the meat grills use the green scotch brite pads when cleaning the equipment. In fact Mcdonalds is a very large buyer of the green scotch brite pads for their maintence workers who work at night.
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By Peterlee
Member
2 years ago
319 Posts
Re: Re: Wooden Matches and Green Fibers
Posted By: Peterlee
Many maintence men who work in fast food restaurants at night cleaning the place, cleaning fry cookers and cleaning the meat grills use the green scotch brite pads when cleaning the equipment. In fact Mcdonalds is a very large buyer of the green scotch brite pads for their maintence workers who work at night.
Hello Peterlee, Yet is was mentioned that at least in one case the green fibers did come from the towel he ripped to bind the victim.
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By Sandia
Member
2 years ago
1382 Posts
Same clothing?
Maybe he was wearing clothing that he had become comfortable with, and the fibers were transferred from scene to scene.
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By Warren
Member
2 years ago
121 Posts

[Drifter]

YOUR profile of EAR/ONS

So if you were a profiler what would your profile say about EAR/ONS? What do you think he does? What makes him tick? Is there anything you believe to be incorrect about his previous profiles?

Examples of previous profiles:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Original_Night_Stalker

www.ear-ons.com/investigate7.html



Here is the link to the recently discussed series that Colleen Cason did for the Ventura Star:

www.venturacountycrimeblog.com/2008/05/charlene-lyman-smith.html

The link to the main ear-ons board:

www.ear-ons.com



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Edited by clarice, 3 years ago

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By clarice
Member
3 years ago
99 Posts




Re: Re:Very Astute, Once Again.
Posted By: ILATWT7686

Thank you Archangel76. Your site is very informative, probably the only publicity this case has outside of this forum. I found the THS investigates convoluted, i do not think the Maggiore murders are connected to him, or sometimes even VR for that matter, thats unless of course the man who shot Det. McGowen was not the VR. Its unfortunate semen or blood samples were not or could not be preserved from VR crimes. EAR/ONS voice sounded so childlike, I think he may have looked feminine or younger than his true age. I believe he was twenty-four or twenty-five when he began his crimes. I base this on the athleticism, volume and patient (although sometimes opportunistic) nature of the crimes in the beginning.

I also think the issue of EARs looks vs his real age may have confused issues and possibly some focus in this case. Your thoughts on the possibility of EAR having commited suicide intrigued me because I am kind of torn on the suicide issue! On one hand I have trouble thinking that someone like EAR committed suicide- this guy toyed with cops and Det Shelby on the THS documentary says he figured EAR thought cops were stupid. Couple this with the fact that he got away countless times and was not caught...........I figure EAR must have developed some serious confidence and arrogance which then spilled over into some serious Narcissism . Looking at his his crimes I sense there was a subtle undercurrent of narcissism which ran in EAR`s blood which is why I have trouble thinking about him committing suicide. Your point on the souvenirs is interesting because if he committed suicide someone close to him will have had to sort out his belongings and as someone said recently on the board this would have possibly produced something as the souvenirs included driving licenses of victims, possibly newspaper articles of the crimes (since its believed he followed his crimes in the press) ............ its an intriguing conundrum as to what the person discovering such stuff would do?

On the other hand , looking back at the crimes and the fact that EAR shot anyone who threatened to apprehend him, it is a possibility that this guy could commit suicide if the current investigators get close arresting him because throughout all his crimes EAR showed he did not want to get caught, he probably is the type of criminal who wont to be taken alive.....................................
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Edited by DanCartell, 2 years ago
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By DanCartell
Member
2 years ago
683 Posts
Sorry to change th subject - however

Someone on this board just emailed me a photo of a sketch with a parachute and a missle. If you already know what this represents, that is good, but if you don't I would be glad to email it to an acquaintance of mine that is an aerospace engineer. He designed the Voyager and knows almost every who/where/what of everything in the sky. If he has ever seen this design before, he might know who drew it or where it came from. Do you think this could be helpful???
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Edited by 222Urit, 2 years ago
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By 222Urit
Member
2 years ago
71 Posts
Only bad questions
The only bad questions are the ones that don't get asked. Ask your friend.
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By f1guyus
Member
2 years ago
1265 Posts
Profile ideas - open to more ideas...

Now aged 54-60 years old,

Lived in (or within 5km of Rancho Cordova) around 1973-74,

Attended High School in Rancho Cardova or High School close by,

Lived in Irvine in the early-mid 80s,

Had family or in-laws living in Goleta in the late 70s-early 80s,

At least middle-class,

Sociopathic, secretive and lacking normal empathy,

Cunning, smart and able to compartmentalise and hide his true nature,

Will be seen by those who know him as confident and at times somewhat arrogant,

Vain in terms of his personal appearance,

Spends time in solitary pursuits,

Mechanically minded, interested in cars and will take long drives in his vehicle,

Still follows the case, but is paranoid about capture and will avoid communicating with authorities/media,

Feels that his crimes are his 'life's work' and takes great personal pride in having elluded capture,

Keeps hidden momentos,

Will be at high risk to attempt suicide if ever captured.
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Edited by SammyT, 1 year ago
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By SammyT
Member
2 years ago
433 Posts
Re: Profile ideas - open to more ideas...
Posted By: SammyT

Now aged 54-60 years old,

Lived in (or within 5km of Rancho Cordova) around 1973-74,

Attended High School in Rancho Cardova or High School close by,

Lived in Irvine in the early-mid 80s,

Had family or in-laws living in Goleta in the late 70s-early 80s,

At least middle-class,

Sociopathic, secretive and lacking normal empathy,

Cunning, smart and able to compartmentalise and hide his true nature,

Will be seen by those who know him as confident and at times somewhat arrogant,

Vain in terms of his personal appearance,

Still follows the case, but is paranoid about capture and will avoid communicating with authorities/media,

Feels that his crimes are his 'life's work' and takes great personal pride in having elluded capture,

Keeps hidden momentos,

Will be at high risk to attempt suicide if ever captured.
Maybe you can add
- a connection to the Tulare county area as of 74-75
-fitness fanatic/ likes to work out
-hatred towards women & possibly abusive to his female partner (verbal and/or physical)
-likes making menacing phone calls
-shows stalker tendencies
-a nocturnal individual


*as for the age you can make the leeway greater and say 54 or above - I wouldn`t rule out the possibility of the guy being more than 60 years old as of presently
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By DanCartell
Member
2 years ago
683 Posts
Re: YOUR profile of EAR/ONS

I am no profiler, but I do hold the belief that EAR/ONS is a male (no kidding) age 65-75 in 2012, who had access to several firearms, masks, and vehicles. He spent a great deal of time at universities, hospitals and grade schools - most of which he probably had no connection to as a student or employee. He is of Slavic or Scandinavian heritage.
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Edited by Cimmerian10, 1 year ago
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By Cimmerian10
Member
1 year ago
1000 Posts
Re: YOUR profile of EAR/ONS

The poem that the East Area Rapist sent to the authorities is unique in that in contains no sexual innuendo or any references to victimization of any kind. When these types of criminals send letters to the cops or the media (Zodiac, Son of Sam, BTK, etc) the message is usually littered with real or imagined accounts of sexual assault or murder. The EAR poem is entirely political. It's subject is civilization and it's quirks, mainly work, status, and leisure. These are fairly obscure things that most people don't think about. Most people certainly do not see them from the same perspective that the East Area Rapist did. It's unlikely that EAR formulated most of the ideas expressed in the poem on his own. So who could have influenced him? After casually searching for a few years I discovered an archaic piece of literature written by a man named George Cutten. The book is titled "The Threat of Leisure" and it is a 170 page treatise which rants against "modern industrial society" and civilization in general. It is also critical of the labor movement. Cutten suggested that the laborer of the early twentieth century did not work long nor hard enough and that this luxury of free time combined with technology would have disastrous societal and genetic consequences. The author also explains how, in his opinion, people who trace their origins to 'warm' or 'mild' weather climates are inferior, due to their ancestors not having to to exert the same amount of effort to survive as those who lived in cold environments. The book is a recipe for the destruction of civilization and the annihilation of people who trace their origins to mild-weather climates. Ironically, it's author, a man who can trace his origins to a part of the world which experiences mild winter weather (Ireland), spent the remainder of his life not working but collecting and writing about American silver.
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By Cimmerian10
Member
1 year ago
1000 Posts
Re: YOUR profile of EAR/ONS

In addition to the link between the ideas and word usage in the EAR's poem and George Cutten's book, there seems to be an interesting link which lies in the victimology. EAR/ONS almost exclusively targeted what you might refer to as 'ethnics' - all of whom had ancestral ties to regions which experience warm or temperate winters. There is a disproportionate number of Asian, Hispanic, Italian, German and Irish/Anglicized victims. Lots of Catholics. To my knowledge, none of the victims were Russian, Armenian, or Native North American, or any other cold-origin group. He never targeted anyone from his own ancestral background.
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Edited by Cimmerian10, 1 year ago
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By Cimmerian10
Member
1 year ago
1000 Posts
Age estimate/ancestral targeting

A seventy five year old EAR-ONS? ...in that case he was forty odd when he began his ransacking or prowling - not impossible, but highly unlikely for a whole number of reasons.


That's like me saying EAR is now aged around 47- 48 and was a prodigious twelve or thirteen year old in 1976 - again possible, but highly unlikely.

Warm or temperate Irish winters?!! ...sorry but that is just trying to make the victimology 'fit' the theory.

Do you honestly think that the scumbag who kicked down potential victims' doors in frustration was studying their family trees or ethnic origins beforehand?!!!
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Edited by SammyT, 1 year ago
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By SammyT
Member
1 year ago
433 Posts
Re: YOUR profile of EAR/ONS

75 years old is on the extreme end. During the winter in Ireland the temperature rarely drops below freezing, usually only at night time for a period of a few hours it will hover in the upper 20s/lower 30s; that's extremely mild (gets colder in Texas). The climate is kept warm by the waters which surround the island. I think that EAR usually knew the names of his victims before he attacked them; the name being the most obvious clue to their ethnic background. No need to look up a family tree.
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Edited by Cimmerian10, 1 year ago
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By Cimmerian10
Member
1 year ago
1000 Posts
Re: YOUR profile of EAR/ONS

The following is a quote from a man who visited Ireland many moons ago... "They use their fields mostly for pasture. Little is cultivated and even less is sown. The problem here is not the quality of the soil but rather the lack of industry on the part of those who should cultivate it. This laziness means that the different types of minerals with which hidden veins of the earth are full are neither mined nor exploited in any way. They do not devote themselves to the manufacture of flax or wool, nor to the practice of any mechanical or mercantile act. Dedicated only to leisure and laziness, this is a truly barbarous people. They depend on their livelihood for animals and they live like animals." If people in Ireland could survive under these conditions, it must not be a very demanding climate. As in the regions nearby these people were able to survive quite comfortably relying on a thoroughly crude agricultural civilization model. They were not living in the same environments that Ice Age Neanderthals or the Inuit.
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Edited by Cimmerian10, 1 year ago
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By Cimmerian10
Member
1 year ago
1000 Posts