Domingo & Sanchez: Reconstructing the events of 27 July 1981

[rogdomingo]

Sept 17, 2013 3:15:04 GMT cerulean said:

Thank you, Roger. Im not sure if Im correct in anything really. I've been obsessed with this case for over a year, and nearly every day there is not some time in the day that I dont feel my brain returning to ruminate over what I have read about the cases. There isnt much information, but the information given is purported to be the real victim reports. In over 40 cases, the EAR behavior starts to make a picture. It is a fine distinction, and one that probably wont get him caught, but it still weighs on my mind. He may have graduated to directly torturing the men as ONS, but when I  look at how skittish he was with the EAR male victims and how as ONS he had been encountering real physical resistance from them (eg, the Danville man who confronted him, Offerman who lunged at him...even the computer guy who ran out to hide in the backyard), I dont think he was the kind to take a chance like having the male alive and in the same bed that his wife was raped in. I could totally be wrong, but this guy was so obsessive-compulsive in his crimes, he did the same thing over and over and it took him nearly 50 rapes to get to what he wanted to do, kill, that I find it hard to believe he would not find the men a threat, all of a sudden, as ONS.

One more thing about why I think the rape or the attack as ONS were quickly done. Time and time again, the type of serial killer he is, fits a pattern. They behave the same a lot of the time, and they think the same, to a large degree.  I saw it again recently in the case of Israel Keyes, the serial killer who took trips all over the US to indulge in his favorite pasttime, killing. 
He presented himself as just someone who liked to see people suffer. He made it sound almost rational. But what he eventually got around to saying, though, was that he thought that the people he killed were his. 
These killers are ultimately concerned with holding complete power over people, to the extent where they still feel this way after they have been killed.  This ties in with necrophiliac feelings in these killers have a lot of the time (and try to cover up), but more importantly, they believe the people that they kill are theirs, even though the body is rotting, even though the body has disintegrated.  Theyve taken the ultimate control over a person; they killed them. But that isnt satisfying enough for them. They have to believe, in some twisted logic and magical thinking, that even in death, those people belong to them. In his case, he wouldnt tell the FBI where bodies were left, because if they didnt find them, they could still 'be his.'  He was inordinately interested in someone he dumped into a very deep lake in Washington; he got satisfaction in thinking that the body would still be sitting on the floor of that lake, untouched as the day he threw it there, because it was too cold at that depth and not even fish went that low, so they wouldnt have nibbled on the corpse.  You see this behavior in the Zodiac killer, too. He made up some story that he believed that the people he killed would be his slaves in the afterlife. Its a crazy logic or obsession or feeling that they tend to have, that a psychologist will link to deeper themes of them being incomplete people who have no boundaries with other people and who are looking to fill themselves up with the victims they claim. I dont know about any of that, but it is obvious that this is common thing with these type of killers. Ok; that was a really long way of saying that the killing of the person took precedent over any other desire they might have, and ONS had always proved he was a paranoid coward in his past crimes, so he probably wanted out of the murder scenes, quickly.  Definitely after he discharged his gun and made a racket.  How many times did this guy tell people to whisper from 1976-79. A lot.

[rogdomingo]

It will be clear that I lurk more than I post, but Thank You for your wise perspective and insights... and persistence.

[applicable]

Aug 16, 2015 16:54:06 GMT rogdomingo said:

It will be clear that I lurk more than I post, but Thank You for your wise perspective and insights... and persistence.

Hi Rog,

Keep posting too. It is clear we all want this man caught and the contributions from the recollections of yourself and Deb can only help bring this case closer to a resolution.

[Drifter]

bump

[debris]

Drifter,

Thanks for bringing this thread forward. It's a good one. I've always been grateful for my Dad's contributions here.
He hasn't posted in over a year now, but he does still keep an ear to the ground for what we all are doing.

-Deb

[bob]

I apologize if this has already been asked.

Did LE ever get the entire guest list for the December 29th 1979 dinner party on Toltec Place that was attended by Dr. Debra (Dee) Manning and Dr. Robert Offerman? Dr.s Manning and Offerman were killed the night after that party.

 Is there any chance that Cheri or her relative - who owned the house on Toltec attended that party back in '79?

*Cheri and Greg were murdered 17 months later in July 1981 in a home on Toltec Place.

[paulienyc84]

I remember reading, in this thread, that biological evidence was found on the bed at the crime scene. Recently, On The Case With Paula Zahn confirmed this. I haven't read anyone's theory on how the semen got on the bed. Does anyone have a theory? In my opinion, it's far-fetched to say that he masturbated after killing both of them. Only because, I imagine that after shooting Greg, he was in a hurry to get out of there. It also makes me wonder why he bludgeoned Greg and Cheri as opposed to shooting them? It is believed that the same resistance happened during the O/M home invasion. However, both of them were shot and not bludgeoned. Did he shoot Greg, then put down the gun and bludgeon him? Why wouldn't he just shoot him, shoot Cheri then leave? Did he enter the bedroom with the gun and the murder weapon? Or did he leave it in the bathroom thinking that once they were bound, he could go back and retrieve it whenever he wanted. It would seem that he had to be carrying it in his hand when he first encountered Greg. If not, it is even more implausible that he first shot Greg and then went into the bathroom to grab the murder weapon while Greg was still alive, though wounded. After both were dead, did he masturbate? If not, when did he? When he was in the bathroom watching them? And how did it get onto the bed? So many questions!

[winters]

Aug 1, 2017 7:19:15 GMT paulienyc84 said:

I remember reading, in this thread, that biological evidence was found on the bed at the crime scene. Recently, On The Case With Paula Zahn confirmed this. I haven't read anyone's theory on how the semen got on the bed. Does anyone have a theory? In my opinion, it's far-fetched to say that he masturbated after killing both of them. Only because, I imagine that after shooting Greg, he was in a hurry to get out of there. It also makes me wonder why he bludgeoned Greg and Cheri as opposed to shooting them? It is believed that the same resistance happened during the O/M home invasion. However, both of them were shot and not bludgeoned. Did he shoot Greg, then put down the gun and bludgeon him? Why wouldn't he just shoot him, shoot Cheri then leave? Did he enter the bedroom with the gun and the murder weapon? Or did he leave it in the bathroom thinking that once they were bound, he could go back and retrieve it whenever he wanted. It would seem that he had to be carrying it in his hand when he first encountered Greg. If not, it is even more implausible that he first shot Greg and then went into the bathroom to grab the murder weapon while Greg was still alive, though wounded. After both were dead, did he masturbate? If not, when did he? When he was in the bathroom watching them? And how did it get onto the bed? So many questions!

Great questions as usual Paulie. I'll take a stab at it. There's evidence that EAR/GSK was in the bathroom while the couple was having sex (deep footprint indentations on the rug). Most of the GSK crimes seem to come after the killer sees a couple having sex or a woman undressing for bed, so in that way I'd say they were sexually motivated. I feel that after shooting Sanchez, hogtying Domingo, and then bludgeoning Sanchez, he made an attempt to rape Domingo but she was uncooperative and he felt the need to get out of there so he masturbated quickly onto the bedsheets, killed her, and made his escape. It's also possible that he masturbated in the bathroom while they were having sex, and wiped his hand on the bedsheets. He may have masturbated at the O/M crime scene as well and the evidence was overlooked.

I feel that he didn't want to risk more gunshots, and that's why he bludgeoned the victims in this case despite having already fired off a round. Many criminals will tell you that neighbors will hear a gunshot or breaking glass or a scream or something and then listen for more, and if more aren't heard, the neighbor doubts what they initially heard and they don't act on it. During the O/M crimes, the killer most likely had not bludgeoned anyone before or was not prepared to do it, and it may not have even crossed his mind. Offerman may have been going after him more aggressively than Sanchez was, as well.

These are all just theories... no way of knowing really.

[leviathan]

It's also possible that the semen got there during the rape itself. Consensual sex can be messy, nevermind if there's struggling involved. Also- given his propensity for "non-traditional" methods of stimulation- he may have ejaculated on the bed sheet in the act.

As for bludgeoning- given that he never demonstrated using such weapons in any of the EAR attacks, I think this wasn't improve on his part. I think he came with bludgeoning in mind from the beginning

[paulienyc84]

Aug 1, 2017 14:20:31 GMT winters said:

Aug 1, 2017 7:19:15 GMT paulienyc84 said:

I remember reading, in this thread, that biological evidence was found on the bed at the crime scene. Recently, On The Case With Paula Zahn confirmed this. I haven't read anyone's theory on how the semen got on the bed. Does anyone have a theory? In my opinion, it's far-fetched to say that he masturbated after killing both of them. Only because, I imagine that after shooting Greg, he was in a hurry to get out of there. It also makes me wonder why he bludgeoned Greg and Cheri as opposed to shooting them? It is believed that the same resistance happened during the O/M home invasion. However, both of them were shot and not bludgeoned. Did he shoot Greg, then put down the gun and bludgeon him? Why wouldn't he just shoot him, shoot Cheri then leave? Did he enter the bedroom with the gun and the murder weapon? Or did he leave it in the bathroom thinking that once they were bound, he could go back and retrieve it whenever he wanted. It would seem that he had to be carrying it in his hand when he first encountered Greg. If not, it is even more implausible that he first shot Greg and then went into the bathroom to grab the murder weapon while Greg was still alive, though wounded. After both were dead, did he masturbate? If not, when did he? When he was in the bathroom watching them? And how did it get onto the bed? So many questions!

Great questions as usual Paulie. I'll take a stab at it. There's evidence that EAR/GSK was in the bathroom while the couple was having sex (deep footprint indentations on the rug). Most of the GSK crimes seem to come after the killer sees a couple having sex or a woman undressing for bed, so in that way I'd say they were sexually motivated. I feel that after shooting Sanchez, hogtying Domingo, and then bludgeoning Sanchez, he made an attempt to rape Domingo but she was uncooperative and he felt the need to get out of there so he masturbated quickly onto the bedsheets, killed her, and made his escape. It's also possible that he masturbated in the bathroom while they were having sex, and wiped his hand on the bedsheets. He may have masturbated at the O/M crime scene as well and the evidence was overlooked.

I feel that he didn't want to risk more gunshots, and that's why he bludgeoned the victims in this case despite having already fired off a round. Many criminals will tell you that neighbors will hear a gunshot or breaking glass or a scream or something and then listen for more, and if more aren't heard, the neighbor doubts what they initially heard and they don't act on it. During the O/M crimes, the killer most likely had not bludgeoned anyone before or was not prepared to do it, and it may not have even crossed his mind. Offerman may have been going after him more aggressively than Sanchez was, as well.

These are all just theories... no way of knowing really.

Thank you for the compliment and for sharing your knowledge on the case.  I like your theories and they definitely make sense.  It's great to share theories with you!

[ravenousoyster]

I remember reading somewhere on this board that maybe he masturbated prior to the attack while he was in the bathroom, & perhaps the semen got onto the bed sheets that way if he didn't clean up very well.

[bob]

Aug 26, 2013 2:28:28 GMT dancartell said:

While reading the another thread the subject of the LA mag article came up and I found the details of that article interesting yet they left somewhat puzzled about how events unfolded after entered the house Greg & Cheri were in.

The article states some interesting facts mainly (1) Greg fought with EAR (2) the door made a creaking noise on the rug which may have alerted Greg to an intruder (3) there were no signs of Greg ever being bound  and (4) what the neighbor reported hearing Cheri say .....

On the other hand Sudden Terror states that Greg was shot while in the kneeling position and then struck and the way Cheri was bound was quite peculiar .  

I am having trouble reconciling the facts from these two sources becase I am struglling to piece together how the events unfolded once EAR was in the house.  If Greg did fight with EAR as the article states then was this the point were Cheri screamed? How come Greg was shot in the kneeling position if he had fought as the article suggests? If Greg was not tied up as has been suggested could this mean that he confronted EAR before EAR could do his usual routine of making the woman tie up the man?  At what point was Cheri tied up?  The two sources of info have left me puzzled as to exactly how events unfolded .....does anyone have an idea of how the sequence of events unfolded after EAR entered the house because the information in the LA mag article has really left me with more questions than answers and not to mention a whole lot of question marks ..........

Debris,

Can you reveal "what the neighbor reported hearing Cheri say"?  If not, ok.

[debris]

Aug 15, 2017 3:03:25 GMT bob said:

Aug 26, 2013 2:28:28 GMT dancartell said:

While reading the another thread the subject of the LA mag article came up and I found the details of that article interesting yet they left somewhat puzzled about how events unfolded after entered the house Greg & Cheri were in.

The article states some interesting facts mainly (1) Greg fought with EAR (2) the door made a creaking noise on the rug which may have alerted Greg to an intruder (3) there were no signs of Greg ever being bound  and (4) what the neighbor reported hearing Cheri say .....

On the other hand Sudden Terror states that Greg was shot while in the kneeling position and then struck and the way Cheri was bound was quite peculiar .  

I am having trouble reconciling the facts from these two sources becase I am struglling to piece together how the events unfolded once EAR was in the house.  If Greg did fight with EAR as the article states then was this the point were Cheri screamed? How come Greg was shot in the kneeling position if he had fought as the article suggests? If Greg was not tied up as has been suggested could this mean that he confronted EAR before EAR could do his usual routine of making the woman tie up the man?  At what point was Cheri tied up?  The two sources of info have left me puzzled as to exactly how events unfolded .....does anyone have an idea of how the sequence of events unfolded after EAR entered the house because the information in the LA mag article has really left me with more questions than answers and not to mention a whole lot of question marks ..........

Debris,

Can you reveal "what the neighbor reported hearing Cheri say"?  If not, ok.

The first I ever heard that particular tidbit was in Michelle McNamara's l.a. magazine article...."In the Footsteps of a Killer. .. The Writer's Cut." I don't have any idea if she got that from an investigator or from some news source. Sorry.

[cityofchill]

Ok. This may be obvious, but if the killer came to the open house to case the place, someone saw him. Someone knows what he looks like.

[trabuco]

Aug 16, 2017 1:45:35 GMT cityofchill said:

Ok. This may be obvious, but if the killer came to the open house to case the place, someone saw him. Someone knows what he looks like.

Someone also knows what the young man with neatly combed blonde hair walking a german shepherd looks like too because they told LE they saw him as they were walking the night of or night before the murders. I don't know if a sketch or composite exist of this particular individual.