What was so special about Manuela?

[danmiami]

You know I was thinking up a million different scenarios that make sense here which is nothing if you really think about it!!! We can sit here and assume this and that. What about just a profound hatred of women because of being "wronged" by them? What would drive him to murder after raping without killing so many times? Perhaps he was a good looking guy attractive to women. However he just has that "creep" factor. The women who post on here will know exactly what I am referring to. "Great looking guy and very nice. In fact too nice like something seems too perfect" right? I have women friends who tell me the "creep" factor is tangible and very real!

Now I am sure LE has looked into the possibility that the women who were murdered may have dated a guy in their past that they broke it off for this very reason. Did he go completely off the rails once he headed south and "was going to make those who rebuffed him pay!" Is it possible that this person dated Charlene, Patti, Manuela and Cheri? I am not so sure about Janelle because of her age and the time lapse. At that point he is a full blown psychopath so it didn't matter at this point. I said some are convinced that Janelle's killer lived within a 1/4 mile radius of her home. How you trace people 40 years ago and the people they dated? The reason I leave Manning off the list is the killing was believed not planned. Or was it?

Maybe that is why watching them have sex with their partners infuriated him? Did he watch couples as EAR? That wasn't he primary motive in the beginning I do not believe yet Larry Pool emphasized that this "killer needed to see the woman engaging in sexual intercourse". Why? I heard the "whore" angle but it may be much, much deeper!!!

[outcat]

Could be he was a creep and/or constantly rejected by women. Maybe his peers around him continued to have casual sexual relationships to loving, long-term relationships and continually remained single (remember that Elliot Roger guy from early last year?) It could have been years of built up frustration, rejection, and feeling emasculated that had led to the attacks. None of these, of course, are even justified, but it could explain why he's a misogynist. 

[Deleted]

Dec 9, 2015 0:19:41 GMT danmiami said:

You know I was thinking up a million different scenarios that make sense here which is nothing if you really think about it!!! We can sit here and assume this and that. What about just a profound hatred of women because of being "wronged" by them? What would drive him to murder after raping without killing so many times? Perhaps he was a good looking guy attractive to women. However he just has that "creep" factor. The women who post on here will know exactly what I am referring to. "Great looking guy and very nice. In fact too nice like something seems too perfect" right? I have women friends who tell me the "creep" factor is tangible and very real!

Now I am sure LE has looked into the possibility that the women who were murdered may have dated a guy in their past that they broke it off for this very reason. Did he go completely off the rails once he headed south and "was going to make those who rebuffed him pay!" Is it possible that this person dated Charlene, Patti, Manuela and Cheri? I am not so sure about Janelle because of her age and the time lapse. At that point he is a full blown psychopath so it didn't matter at this point. I said some are convinced that Janelle's killer lived within a 1/4 mile radius of her home. How you trace people 40 years ago and the people they dated? The reason I leave Manning off the list is the killing was believed not planned. Or was it?

Maybe that is why watching them have sex with their partners infuriated him? Did he watch couples as EAR? That wasn't he primary motive in the beginning I do not believe yet Larry Pool emphasized that this "killer needed to see the woman engaging in sexual intercourse". Why? I heard the "whore" angle but it may be much, much deeper!!!

this case would be a gold mine to any profiler looking to cut his teeth on cold cases.  the way I see it, there are two very clear and unambiguous motivations.  one is terrorizing women,  and the second is taking dominion over a family and it's household. with respect to the first MO, I have a hunch that his deep-seeded hatred of women was developed early on in adolescence. I think that's the period in life where our true personalities and motivations are developed, so it probably developed before he ever dated.  the second one is even more fascinating  to me because it comes from wanting what you can never have and I think that was the one that began to consume him,  and eventually destroyed him.

[danmiami]

I am going to post on main board to see if anyone knows surviving family members of murdered victims. Worth a shot..

[Deleted]

Dec 9, 2015 3:10:48 GMT danmiami said:

I am going to post on main board to see if anyone knows surviving family members of murdered victims. Worth a shot..

if you re-read the 6th grade essay,  knowing what we now know,  you can see a strong probability that by early age he was  completely unbalanced.   but you can also see how clever and manipulative he was.   I mean I was practically feeling sorry for the kid!   anybody so smart yet dysfunctional would likely have been pegged as a an underachiever in high school

[danmiami]

You know there was a case locally where the guy asked a woman out several times until she finally relented. Now this guy was a creep. Takes her to a picnic (this is not bad in itself). Then it becomes more bizarre with the wine and cheese. Then he proceeds to put on slow music when at this time he asks her to dance. Now just imagining this scenario it appeared he was impersonating Giacomo Casanova himself. Just very surreal and strange which made the girl probably very uncomfortable. He then proceeds to try to kiss her and she rebuffs his advance.

At this point he proceeds to quickly pack everything back in his car and drives her home without saying a word. The girl felt bad about the incident and even apologized. But come on!! A first date? Maybe to propose to a long time girlfriend this is appropriate. But nothing is normal about these guys is my point. These dudes are not normal in anyway, shape or form.

5 years elapse and the same girl is out at dinner with another guy with that afternoon long forgotten about. But he never forgot it. Well the same guy out of nowhere shows up at her door 5 years later!! She allows him in thinking he is just dropping by to say hello. At gunpoint he threatens her life. As she attempts to escape he shoots her twice. Then not satisfied he runs her over in his truck backing over her!! Although she miraculously survives paralyzed and in a wheelchair.

Now ask yourself that was over a date!! Now add more emotions to a point where they may have had a relationship. I have seen it over and over again a twisted mind can have no boundaries and no limits. I think he was a moderately intelligent person with perhaps violence and sadism towards the women he hates. But profilers have stated that he may have perormed bondage with a compliant partner such as a girlfriend or wife. Perhaps his sadism was only geared toward those he resented. I have seen this behavior in other sexual sadists where the wife or girlfriend never sees that side of the monster. Perhaps this is the other reason he is so difficult to unmask. It is like 2 different people who urge to control, dominate and then murder ceased for some reason. Age? The thrill was gone? Or perhaps he thought he got even with those who wronged him and now he must the rest of his life in obscurity?

[Deleted]

well only God and EAR know the truth and EAR ain't talking, but that kind of vendetta mentality does not sound like him at all because as you know, the first question a homicide detective will ask is who held a grudge against the victim.   that is not to say that he did not hold grudges against women but I believe he was smart enough not to victimize those females and quickly link himself to the crime.   besides in that terrible case you describe, at least we can understand somewhat the perpetrator's  feelings and motivations …  by contrast I think EAR was far more dangerously insane than the person you describe.   Even if he was captured tomorrow no one would ever truly know why he did these terrible things

[danmiami]

I agree that the Sacramento victims were probably not involved with him. I mean you are talking about 50+unless he was a real player and I am not feeling that.

Now if you separate the murders from the rapes was there something? I am offering a hypothesis mind you but for example did Katie Maggiore date anyone prior to Brian? You see I am looking at both scenarios and remember there was no Facebook or internet where one could see photos and put 2 and 2 together. Of he killed and there was a reason. Was it for the thrill? Or did he have a stronger motive or ties with these women? Why pick Manuela? Why pick Cheri and Charlene even Pattii? It was said Patti had a confrontation with someone not long prior to the murders.

This is one or many possible scenarios. If he just dated them casually who could identify a pattern? They are no longer with us and many women (and. Men) do not discuss their past often with others.

[zforce]

I think it's reasonable to conclude in the Witthuhn and O/M cases, that one or more of the victims had a previous interaction with him. I would put the Smith, Harrington, Cruz, and D/S cases in a second tier. In fact, really the D/S case is the only one without any strong "possible previous connection" that I've heard....so that case could almost be put into a third tier.

[happycamper]

There was a teenager that was warped. Most likely he was sexually abused or his parents were abusers. He was broken. His anger was relieved by peeping, entering homes excited him. This became his release, but over time more excitement was needed to compensate for his growing hate. He began to rape and over time that was not enough.
This man watched other couples in love, showing genuine affection. This made this man fill with disgust and rage. Who are these beautiful people who think they can flaunt their love?? Why should they be happy, I don't need that - those *es just end up dumping you - they're all the same. * whores and these guys are nothing but suckers!
The man is so enraged he decides to destroy this "love", how better than to KILL them. Dumb fuckers!!
Not only did this relieve his anger but watching them perform heightened his own perverted pleasure.
Terror and being the one in control. This makes this man SATISFIED.
Actually, he is no longer a part of humanity, he is a soul less bearer of horror that needs to be brought to justice.
This is just my mind trying to imagine how a human can dissolve into not being human. There are probably many like this man, the world can be so ugly.
But, I hang on to the hope that someday very soon a light will shine in the dark corner where this man dwells and he will be revealed. And this soul less being will be removed so he can harm no one ever again.

[cornbread]

Nov 26, 2015 17:46:11 GMT albion said:

Dan, can you post a link to the page with the picture in question?

I wish we had more info about the bank where she worked. There was definitely some criminal activity going on at some of the banks and savings and loans in Irvine. I was wondering if she might have had any reason to check the cash deposit over $10,000 disclosures. I am under the impression that she worked for one of the larger banks.

For those who might be unaware of the trials of Griselda Blanco, you might want to watch Cocaine Cowboys 2. The connection is this. Janelle went to University High. Kenji Gallo went to University High. Kenji was a drug mule, dealer, doer of criminal deeds, and friend of the alleged marine rapist's family. And he was an associate of Griselda Blanco. He also became an informer for the FBI. In his book he describes all manner of questionable people, including the character he describes as Officer Jerry, a corrupt Irvine Policeman.

Griselda Blanco was able to plea bargain 99 charges of murder down to 6 years. I would bet good money that this result was due to a conspiracy. How did Griselda Blanco end up in Irvine? And how did Kenji Gallo end up delivering cocaine to the crips in South Central? He recounts one experience where he was stopped by two Newport PD officers, they opened the trunk, looked at the kilos of cocaine, closed the trunk, and then sent him on his way.

Albion, did you ever find out any more about this "Officer Jerry"? (I think I may have found him, although I could be wrong.)

[Michelle Cruz]

Sept 17, 2015 3:56:11 GMT jkearns said:

Also both Janelle and Manuella were killed .When the airshow at El Toro in Irving was going on i believe
After Manuella was murdered. David ,with the police not being shy that he was a suspect,was shunned by his neighbors
Janelle on a dare knocked on his door ,David answered, she told him she was sorry about his wife
 

Janelle did not knock on his door, and we never heard about Manuella being killed..  This is a made up story.

[Justflint]

Jul 6, 2016 15:22:29 GMT Michelle Cruz said:

Sept 17, 2015 3:56:11 GMT jkearns said:

Also both Janelle and Manuella were killed .When the airshow at El Toro in Irving was going on i believe
After Manuella was murdered. David ,with the police not being shy that he was a suspect,was shunned by his neighbors
Janelle on a dare knocked on his door ,David answered, she told him she was sorry about his wife
 

Janelle did not knock on his door, and we never heard about Manuella being killed..  This is a made up story.

  As to my PM.  Any additional info on the "bodybuilder" guy would be helpful also. Any mention of past things to him might add him to the possible list I discussed.  I believe she had a friend with her at the beach.  Anything she remembers about that conversation might help.

[Michelle Cruz]

Jul 6, 2016 17:52:37 GMT Justflint said:

Jul 6, 2016 15:22:29 GMT Michelle Cruz said:

Janelle did not knock on his door, and we never heard about Manuella being killed..  This is a made up story.

  As to my PM.  Any additional info on the "bodybuilder" guy would be helpful also. Any mention of past things to him might add him to the possible list I discussed.  I believe she had a friend with her at the beach.  Anything she remembers about that conversation might help.

I dont know anything about the bodybuilder.  If it's the guy she met at Laguna beach, she never gave me any information.  The last conversation we had was that she met someone at the beach that she liked. She did not say his name, and she didn't really say anything else...  She met him near the basketball courts..  I don't know if he was playing basketball.  Unfortunately, that was all...  I wish there was more..  :-(    I don't know if she went to the beach with anyone.  Her best friend, at the time, was killed in a car accident a few years after Janelle died.  So, I can't even ask her...

[swimmingwithwhales]

Sept 17, 2015 0:26:22 GMT saund10295 said:

I think EAR was so cunning that the chances of any coincidence in this case are slim to none. For example five years after Maneula Witthuhn, his attack on the last known victim Janelle happened just blocks away from the earlier attack… I feel like there is something about Maneula that drew him back. I think in the Cruz attack, EAR may have been reliving the earlier crime. I wonder whether EAR scoffed that no one could figure it out.

I think the same. 

He was working in health care - doctor, nurse, pharmacist, etc. - somewhere nearby to this location is my firm belief.

He was probably working a lot and possibly in a relationship and a bit older physically. The days of prowling around his neighborhood to determine appropriate victims were long gone. Couples involved more risk. 

An attractive woman alone? A chance to re-live old times? Too easy and too tempting. 

He conveniently knew both women were alone and would be easy prey. Janelle had numerous health issues, she probably visited a health care person and might have mentioned her folks were out of town. And of course Manuela's husband was in hospital. 

The medical links are too numerous to ignore. I can't believe some folks still think he was in construction.