SB Co Sheriff: new lead and request for information

[Deleted]

Sept 13, 2013 17:49:14 GMT Agent99 aka Sandia said:

Sept 12, 2013 20:34:35 GMT portofleith said:

I think we need to keep in mind that every worker at a construction site, as others have pointed out, could be carrying tool bags, that may have been set down, with the potential to transfer any of the construction materials such as paint or concrete dust or sawdust, etc.  to that bag.  For example, a tile setter might leave  a site with a tool belt that had paint chips on it, even though he was not a painter.

We have long noted all of the new construction occurring near the Southern California crime scenes, as well as Davis, Modesto and Stockton.  GSK could have been anyone who walked on to those sites in any capacity.

I wonder if the strange Modesto taxi incident where the passenger was dropped off near the new development , might help narrow possibilities.  Perhaps looking at firms working at that particular development might be useful.

I think this is a really important observation about the Modesto taxi incident. Would a painter take a plane and go out to a job site? Maybe a painting contractor since it might be a very large job of many homes or it seems that it would be somebody higher up.  Also it seems to me since the contractor from Sacramento is said to have hired local workers and union workers in Goleta, yet the fact that the contractor was from Sacramento and we know GSK was operating in Sacramento, it seems likely to me that GSK came down with the contractor. It seems like he would not be a painter since they probably hired local painters, it seems more likely it was someone higher up with that company. 

Flight Plan? Probably doesn't exist today but?

[lepke]

Sept 13, 2013 23:48:07 GMT cerulean said:

And again, that is too subtle.
And again, the Custer paper was written, why?
And he planted those papers there on the ground by his car, when? Before the attack next to his car or when he was running for his life? Why? Why would you lead LE any place near your car?
You skipped over the context in which those papers were found. You have a plausible and reasonable scenario given to you by the experts, and you are giving more implausible unreasonable scenarios that arent even based on past behavior. There are a lot of things that merit playing devil's advocate on, but this is one of those things where it is less merited, imo, and the arguments are weak compared to the evidence; even without context they are stronger.

I was referring to the link made to that particular Japanese teacher, which is a big leap from the papers as far as I am concerned. EAR/ONS was known to try and mislead investigators, and so the idea that the papers could have been a plant is based on past behaviour.

[redding]

Sept 14, 2013 0:36:21 GMT lepke said:

Sept 13, 2013 23:48:07 GMT cerulean said:

And again, that is too subtle.
And again, the Custer paper was written, why?
And he planted those papers there on the ground by his car, when? Before the attack next to his car or when he was running for his life? Why? Why would you lead LE any place near your car?
You skipped over the context in which those papers were found. You have a plausible and reasonable scenario given to you by the experts, and you are giving more implausible unreasonable scenarios that arent even based on past behavior. There are a lot of things that merit playing devil's advocate on, but this is one of those things where it is less merited, imo, and the arguments are weak compared to the evidence; even without context they are stronger.

I was referring to the link made to that particular Japanese teacher, which is a big leap from the papers as far as I am concerned. EAR/ONS was known to try and mislead investigators, and so the idea that the papers could have been a plant is based on past behaviour.

Well when the neighborhood that was ground zero in the EAR series has a teacher that is just as the EAR described then a wouldn't call that a big leap.....I would call it a good place to start.  

[lepke]

Sept 14, 2013 0:44:55 GMT redding said:

Sept 14, 2013 0:36:21 GMT lepke said:

I was referring to the link made to that particular Japanese teacher, which is a big leap from the papers as far as I am concerned. EAR/ONS was known to try and mislead investigators, and so the idea that the papers could have been a plant is based on past behaviour.

Well when the neighborhood that was ground zero in the EAR series has a teacher that is just as the EAR described then a wouldn't call that a big leap.....I would call it a good place to start.  

To quote from the Wikipedia entry on VR, and 'Based on all of the evidence, it is strongly suspected that the Visalia Ransacker and the East Area Rapist are one and the same.' On that basis, and I would say the majority subscribe to that idea, it is more likely that EAR/ONS grew up in Visalia than Rancho Cordova. Out of all the teachers in America that it could have been, assuming that the papers were a truthful account by EAR/ONS, I would still suggest that honing in on one in particular is a big leap. Port had something interesting to say about another teacher if you noticed, and there must be countless other sixth grade teachers who cancelled field trips.

[redding]

Sept 14, 2013 0:52:05 GMT lepke said:

Sept 14, 2013 0:44:55 GMT redding said:

Well when the neighborhood that was ground zero in the EAR series has a teacher that is just as the EAR described then a wouldn't call that a big leap.....I would call it a good place to start.  

To quote from the Wikipedia entry on VR, and 'Based on all of the evidence, it is strongly suspected that the Visalia Ransacker and the East Area Rapist are one and the same.' On that basis, and I would say the majority subscribe to that idea, it is more likely that EAR/ONS grew up in Visalia than Rancho Cordova. Out of all the teachers in America that it could have been, assuming that the papers were a truthful account by EAR/ONS, I would still suggest that honing in on one in particular is a big leap. Port had something interesting to say about another teacher if you noticed, and there must be countless other sixth grade teachers who cancelled field trips.

So you do like my teacher idea?  You just think we should start in Visalia?  

[lepke]

Sept 14, 2013 0:54:59 GMT redding said:

Sept 14, 2013 0:52:05 GMT lepke said:

To quote from the Wikipedia entry on VR, and 'Based on all of the evidence, it is strongly suspected that the Visalia Ransacker and the East Area Rapist are one and the same.' On that basis, and I would say the majority subscribe to that idea, it is more likely that EAR/ONS grew up in Visalia than Rancho Cordova. Out of all the teachers in America that it could have been, assuming that the papers were a truthful account by EAR/ONS, I would still suggest that honing in on one in particular is a big leap. Port had something interesting to say about another teacher if you noticed, and there must be countless other sixth grade teachers who cancelled field trips.

So you do like my teacher idea?  You just think we should start in Visalia?  

I am open to the possibility that the writings are genuine, and while not impossible that the Japanese teacher you mentioned taught EAR/ONS, all things considered I would still think it unlikely.

[ronin]

Sept 14, 2013 0:57:34 GMT lepke said:

Sept 14, 2013 0:54:59 GMT redding said:

So you do like my teacher idea?  You just think we should start in Visalia?  

I am open to the possibility that the writings are genuine, and while not impossible that the Japanese teacher you mentioned taught EAR/ONS, all things considered I would still think it unlikely.

Lepke, I agree that a potential list of students of male sixth-grade teachers should not be used to exclude people NOT on the list; but such a list would be very useful in excluding subjects ON the list.

The mere possibility that the writings were done by EAR/ONS make them very important and worth pursuing. Looking at students of male sixth-grade teachers in Visalia, Rancho Cordova, and Goleta would give you a reasonably manageable list of names to start checking out. Maybe EAR/ONS didn't write the essay; maybe he did, but grew up in another town -- it still has to checked out. Given the lack of other evidence to focus the search, the writings are a good lead that should not be ignored.

Here's another thought: suppose for the sake of argument that EAR/ONS did attend elementary school in Rancho Cordova. Even if he didn't write the essay, there is still a significant chance that he was a student of the Japanese-American sixth grade teacher, simply due to the limited number of schools in the area.

[truthandsoul]

Sept 13, 2013 23:48:07 GMT cerulean said:

And again, that is too subtle.
And again, the Custer paper was written, why?
And he planted those papers there on the ground by his car, when? Before the attack next to his car or when he was running for his life? Why? Why would you lead LE any place near your car?
You skipped over the context in which those papers were found. You have a plausible and reasonable scenario given to you by the experts, and you are giving more implausible unreasonable scenarios that arent even based on past behavior. There are a lot of things that merit playing devil's advocate on, but this is one of those things where it is less merited, imo, and the arguments are weak compared to the evidence; even without context they are stronger.

I'm sorry, this scene from the Big Lebowski (around 1:30) reminds me of this incident with the Custer and 6th grade papers (WARNING: Drug use):

www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fl7o1EB0sYI

This is the scene after it were they confront the "suspect" (WARNING: lots of swearing)

www.youtube.com/watch?v=PztgWdMEJdg

[redding]

Sept 14, 2013 3:49:59 GMT ronin said:

Sept 14, 2013 0:57:34 GMT lepke said:

I am open to the possibility that the writings are genuine, and while not impossible that the Japanese teacher you mentioned taught EAR/ONS, all things considered I would still think it unlikely.

Lepke, I agree that a potential list of students of male sixth-grade teachers should not be used to exclude people NOT on the list; but such a list would be very useful in excluding subjects ON the list.

The mere possibility that the writings were done by EAR/ONS make them very important and worth pursuing. Looking at students of male sixth-grade teachers in Visalia, Rancho Cordova, and Goleta would give you a reasonably manageable list of names to start checking out. Maybe EAR/ONS didn't write the essay; maybe he did, but grew up in another town -- it still has to checked out. Given the lack of other evidence to focus the search, the writings are a good lead that should not be ignored.

Here's another thought: suppose for the sake of argument that EAR/ONS did attend elementary school in Rancho Cordova. Even if he didn't write the essay, there is still a significant chance that he was a student of the Japanese-American sixth grade teacher, simply due to the limited number of schools in the area.

Great post.  Just because you start to look in one area does mean that you won't work your way around to other areas.  How do you eat an elephant?  One bite at a time.  

[Drifter]

In the GSK Library, T&S posted a link to paint chip news article that I quote below.
------------------------------------------------------------------

"HAND-DRAWN MAP

The hand-drawn map also shows a freeway, shopping complex and residential neighborhood that resemble the Goleta center that’s now the focus of the Santa Barbara Sheriff’s Office investigation. The area is not far from a riverbed that connects the two homes the stalker victimized. It’s not an exact match, and Pool said he believes the map to be a mix of the killer’s memories and fantasies.

In the drawing, homes of varying sizes line curving streets and surround a lake. Several of the streets end in cul-de-sacs with planters in their middle – a fairly distinct development feature that Pool said was present in the neighborhoods of the killer’s victims in Irvine and Dana Point as well".
------------------------------------------------------------------

Okay, so the map seems to describe someplace in southern California, if not Goleta, then maybe Irvine or Dana Point. But ...

What's interesting to me is that the map (+ pages of text) was not found in southern California. They were found in northern California. Was it specifically the Danville attack where the writings & map presumably tumbled out of the guy's getaway car? ( If not Danville, one of those towns in East Bay area).

Which means that ... if LE is correct that the map refers to someplace in southern California, then the guy traveled north at some point in time (to Danville) away from the location the map describes.  Why travel north?  I thought the guy moved from Sac to southern Calif and then stayed put.

Did he grow up in Goleta, only to move north later? Did he grow up in Sacramento, then move south to SB and then back north toward Sac?

Seems the guy did a lot of moving around, and not just from northern Calif to southern Calif, but maybe back and forth.

[lepke]

Sept 14, 2013 3:49:59 GMT ronin said:

Sept 14, 2013 0:57:34 GMT lepke said:

I am open to the possibility that the writings are genuine, and while not impossible that the Japanese teacher you mentioned taught EAR/ONS, all things considered I would still think it unlikely.

Lepke, I agree that a potential list of students of male sixth-grade teachers should not be used to exclude people NOT on the list; but such a list would be very useful in excluding subjects ON the list.

The mere possibility that the writings were done by EAR/ONS make them very important and worth pursuing. Looking at students of male sixth-grade teachers in Visalia, Rancho Cordova, and Goleta would give you a reasonably manageable list of names to start checking out. Maybe EAR/ONS didn't write the essay; maybe he did, but grew up in another town -- it still has to checked out. Given the lack of other evidence to focus the search, the writings are a good lead that should not be ignored.

Here's another thought: suppose for the sake of argument that EAR/ONS did attend elementary school in Rancho Cordova. Even if he didn't write the essay, there is still a significant chance that he was a student of the Japanese-American sixth grade teacher, simply due to the limited number of schools in the area.

I don't think that anyone should be excluded from the investigation unless there is concrete evidence to do so. If the investigators want to pursue a line of enquiry based on the writings, and prioritise certain people on that basis then that makes sense. By the way, how do you get four elephants in a car? Two in the front and two in the back

[lepke]

Sept 14, 2013 3:56:04 GMT truthandsoul said:

Sept 13, 2013 23:48:07 GMT cerulean said:

And again, that is too subtle.
And again, the Custer paper was written, why?
And he planted those papers there on the ground by his car, when? Before the attack next to his car or when he was running for his life? Why? Why would you lead LE any place near your car?
You skipped over the context in which those papers were found. You have a plausible and reasonable scenario given to you by the experts, and you are giving more implausible unreasonable scenarios that arent even based on past behavior. There are a lot of things that merit playing devil's advocate on, but this is one of those things where it is less merited, imo, and the arguments are weak compared to the evidence; even without context they are stronger.

I'm sorry, this scene from the Big Lebowski (around 1:30) reminds me of this incident with the Custer and 6th grade papers (WARNING: Drug use):

www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fl7o1EB0sYI

This is the scene after it were they confront the "suspect" (WARNING: lots of swearing)

www.youtube.com/watch?v=PztgWdMEJdg

Both scenes were very good, and I must watch that film again sometime. There are so many possibilities about those writings, that do not include EAR/ONS accidentally leaving behind writings that were both truthful in content and written by him. The first scene reminds me of an incident that happened to me in the shower the other day, albeit with no painful consequences. Let me just say that in London in September there are lots of wasps about, and it is best to close your bathroom window at night

[Deleted]

Sept 13, 2013 16:29:25 GMT dogs said:

INTERNATIONAL UNION OF PAINTERS AND ALLIED TRADES (IUPAT) is the representative union for painters. It has 3 locals in Sacramento: 487, 767 and 1237, all staffed out of an office on Governor's Circle (Hwy 99 @ Florin).

There's probably some old fart like me who can recite the whole work history of every painter from the EAR time who carried a card and a brush. And has done so to anyone who would listen.

[Agent99 aka Sandia]

Sept 14, 2013 5:18:08 GMT redding said:

Sept 14, 2013 3:49:59 GMT ronin said:

Lepke, I agree that a potential list of students of male sixth-grade teachers should not be used to exclude people NOT on the list; but such a list would be very useful in excluding subjects ON the list.

The mere possibility that the writings were done by EAR/ONS make them very important and worth pursuing. Looking at students of male sixth-grade teachers in Visalia, Rancho Cordova, and Goleta would give you a reasonably manageable list of names to start checking out. Maybe EAR/ONS didn't write the essay; maybe he did, but grew up in another town -- it still has to checked out. Given the lack of other evidence to focus the search, the writings are a good lead that should not be ignored.

Here's another thought: suppose for the sake of argument that EAR/ONS did attend elementary school in Rancho Cordova. Even if he didn't write the essay, there is still a significant chance that he was a student of the Japanese-American sixth grade teacher, simply due to the limited number of schools in the area.

Great post.  Just because you start to look in one area does mean that you won't work your way around to other areas.  How do you eat an elephant?  One bite at a time.  

[Agent99 aka Sandia]

Sept 14, 2013 3:56:04 GMT truthandsoul said:

Sept 13, 2013 23:48:07 GMT cerulean said:

And again, that is too subtle.
And again, the Custer paper was written, why?
And he planted those papers there on the ground by his car, when? Before the attack next to his car or when he was running for his life? Why? Why would you lead LE any place near your car?
You skipped over the context in which those papers were found. You have a plausible and reasonable scenario given to you by the experts, and you are giving more implausible unreasonable scenarios that arent even based on past behavior. There are a lot of things that merit playing devil's advocate on, but this is one of those things where it is less merited, imo, and the arguments are weak compared to the evidence; even without context they are stronger.

I'm sorry, this scene from the Big Lebowski (around 1:30) reminds me of this incident with the Custer and 6th grade papers (WARNING: Drug use):

www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fl7o1EB0sYI

This is the scene after it were they confront the "suspect" (WARNING: lots of swearing)

www.youtube.com/watch?v=PztgWdMEJdg

Truthy, I'm having trouble keeping up with the board right now but just spotted this. Hilarious! Thanks for the laugh. I am going to check out that movie and yes it is certainly reminiscent about the Custer and the 6th grade papers. Also I agree with Cerulean that this journal and homework assignment is too subtle to be a plant. His red herrings were pretty obvious like she mentioned (sorry to disagree with you on that Lepke, but you make valid points against the Cordova Gardens Elementary connection and although I do have great hopes for the Mr. S and 6th grade connection, I do have to do a bit more research on that.)