11-30-1974

[thrax]

Sept 17, 2024 2:29:30 GMT johnnyhands1 said:

Sept 16, 2024 21:07:20 GMT thrax said:

One thing worth taking note of here is that the 1978 Zodiac letter is almost certainly a hoax.  For one thing, SFPD told the FBI that it was, and they excluded it from their profiling attempt.  But more interestingly, SFPD later did DNA testing of the letters, and found that all the authentic ones had no cells, and that they were consistent with the stamps having been moistened with tap water, whereas the 1978 letter actually generated a DNA profile.  For a bunch of reasons (including SFPD's communications to the FBI), that letter was probably written by Inspector Toschi.

It's a similar situation with the Sierra Club postcard that you seem to be referencing.  That one also appears to be a hoax, as it seems to have been written by someone unfamiliar with other Zodiac letters that hadn't been published in the press at that point.  But even more interesting,ly, Tom Voigt says that in 1999 a retired investigator told him that they knew who had hoaxed that card, and he'd confessed to doing so.  So the hoaxer can't have been JJD, as he was never an investigator in the Zodiac case.  For my money, that was Toschi too.

thrax wrote: "Tom Voigt says that in 1999 a retired investigator told him that they knew who had hoaxed that card, and he'd confessed to doing so. So the hoaxer can't have been JJD, as he was never an investigator in the Zodiac case. For my money, that was Toschi too.”

If it was a hoax, then the Incline Village line of sight due west (“peek through the pines” “pass Lake Tahoe areas”, “around in the snow") ended up being a pretty good clue to finding Donna Lass' remains.

Is it though?  Even if we think this does suggest it's from the killer, the author of that card almost certainly wasn't the Zodiac, because he doesn't seem to have been familiar with other fairly recent Zodiac letters.

[cherylh]

How funny, I was just about to respond to Johnnyhands' post with "Is it though?" myself.

Things that were public knowledge about the Donna Lass case for many years:

Where she lived. Where she worked. Where her car was found.

From that, anybody could have provided these "clues." Two of the phrases, "peek through the pines" and "around in the snow" could hardly be called specific or even generally vague, since that region is filled with both pines and snow.

The third phrase, "pass Lake Tahoe areas" is so vague as to be useless. It also probably a result of where her car was located.

[johnnyhands1]

Sept 18, 2024 20:51:21 GMT cherylh said:

How funny, I was just about to respond to Johnnyhands' post with "Is it though?" myself.

Things that were public knowledge about the Donna Lass case for many years:

Where she lived. Where she worked. Where her car was found.

From that, anybody could have provided these "clues." Two of the phrases, "peek through the pines" and "around in the snow" could hardly be called specific or even generally vague, since that region is filled with both pines and snow.

The third phrase, "pass Lake Tahoe areas" is so vague as to be useless. It also probably a result of where her car was located.

Agreed it could have been dumb luck from the card sender.

But the card sender (not necessarily the Zodiac) could have chosen a location closer to South Lake Tahoe, where Donna lived/work/was apparently abducted, but he chose one at North Lake Tahoe. The direction could have been to the north, south, east from there, but “pass through Tahoe area” seems to point west (peeking any more south-westerly from Incline Village wouldn’t be peeking through pines, but looking at Lake Tahoe.)

The Placer County Sheriff - whose jurisdiction was not even involved in the abduction - was interested enough in the card, a few days after it went public, to issue the card sender “an open invitation to talk to us” and had order searches conducted in that general westerly direction to eventually include Highway 80: North Lake Tahoe, Truckee, Donner Summit, Norden, and Soda Springs.

So the Placer County search seemed to have gotten its general direction from the card’s clues.

If they would have searched 15 mile farther west of Soda Springs, they might have found Donna - she was just north of Hwy 20 near a canal crossed it, and where Hwy 20 and Highway 80 run parallel about .25 miles apart.

On the other hand, Sheriff Scott may have been spurred by the Judith Hakari case, a nurse also kidnapped and murdered after a shift six months before Donna. She was found not too far off Hwy 80 in a southwesterly direction from Incline Village.

The card sender might have also known about the similarities of the two cases, which would make the westerly direction from Incline Village less random.

Here’s the article with Placer County Sheriff Scott’s quotes from 1971 after the card was sent, including the search.
 
www.facebook.com/photo?fbid=1131807424549804&set=a.751517789245438

[chrisdesigner1971]

Sept 16, 2024 7:39:07 GMT johnnyhands1 said:

I'm neutral on the EAR-Zodiac connection, though the "Chron-icLe"/"Veh-icLe" handwriting comparion with it's out-of-place 'L' - between a Zodiac postcard and three Deangelo Auburn PD reports - is convincing looking.

One notable small detail about the "Excitement Crave" that I've never heard mentioned: EC's "movie of my life" (not made public until later) preceded Zodiac's "waiting for a good movie about me" - by several months (EC: 12-77, Z: 4-78). Deangelo (or whomever) wasn't copy-catting Zodiac in that regard.

I'm watching, with interest, 12-26-75's quest to find something that rules out EAR/ZODIAC.

Also, note Jessie James is intentionally misspelled to contain the exact character count of Joseph James. Also, whyyyyyyy in the world would he mention Jessi James along with Son of Sam? It's out of context and feels intentionally thrown in as a taunt that only the author would get.

[johnnyhands1]

Oct 17, 2024 15:18:37 GMT chrisdesigner1971 said:

Sept 16, 2024 7:39:07 GMT johnnyhands1 said:

I'm neutral on the EAR-Zodiac connection, though the "Chron-icLe"/"Veh-icLe" handwriting comparion with it's out-of-place 'L' - between a Zodiac postcard and three Deangelo Auburn PD reports - is convincing looking.

One notable small detail about the "Excitement Crave" that I've never heard mentioned: EC's "movie of my life" (not made public until later) preceded Zodiac's "waiting for a good movie about me" - by several months (EC: 12-77, Z: 4-78). Deangelo (or whomever) wasn't copy-catting Zodiac in that regard.

I'm watching, with interest, 12-26-75's quest to find something that rules out EAR/ZODIAC.

Also, note Jessie James is intentionally misspelled to contain the exact character count of Joseph James. Also, whyyyyyyy in the world would he mention Jessi James along with Son of Sam? It's out of context and feels intentionally thrown in as a taunt that only the author would get.

Maybe he mentioned serial killers to hint what EAR would eventually become: ONS, the serial killer? If he hadn’t already become one - we know he had one death to answer for (Snelling) by December 1977.

As far as Jesse James, the culture of the Old West was big when he was growing up. There were tons for Western TV shows and books back them. Son of Sam was getting a lot of news coverage (was just arrested a few months before in August 1977.) Son of Sam was the serial killer of the moment.  Jesse James was also a serial killer, not a western hero.

As far as spelling, I don’t think JJD was big on worrying about it. Jessie is one way of spelling that name. 

As far as poetic consistency, just like spelling, JJD probably not that concerned with it. I’m guessing it was, by far, his longest poem - and any others he wrote were just done for schoolwork.  He came up with what he came up with, and that was good enough.

[chrisdesigner1971]

I mentioned the Jessie/Joseph connection mostly to explain further why I believe JJD is the author of both letters. We know JJD liked to play games. And this is yet another indication that he is Z, in my opinion. To me, it's rather obvious JJD was obsessed with names and dates. The Jesse/Joseph overlap was another way to do that. And to give a clew, but in an indirect way. For us to brush that off takes more faith than it does to acknowledge it.

[kg]

Oct 17, 2024 15:18:37 GMT chrisdesigner1971 said:

Sept 16, 2024 7:39:07 GMT johnnyhands1 said:

I'm neutral on the EAR-Zodiac connection, though the "Chron-icLe"/"Veh-icLe" handwriting comparion with it's out-of-place 'L' - between a Zodiac postcard and three Deangelo Auburn PD reports - is convincing looking.

One notable small detail about the "Excitement Crave" that I've never heard mentioned: EC's "movie of my life" (not made public until later) preceded Zodiac's "waiting for a good movie about me" - by several months (EC: 12-77, Z: 4-78). Deangelo (or whomever) wasn't copy-catting Zodiac in that regard.

I'm watching, with interest, 12-26-75's quest to find something that rules out EAR/ZODIAC.

Also, note Jessie James is intentionally misspelled to contain the exact character count of Joseph James. Also, whyyyyyyy in the world would he mention Jessi James along with Son of Sam? It's out of context and feels intentionally thrown in as a taunt that only the author would get.

It is out of context but someone did the same thing here:


"In the Parole Board's eyes, I'm not just in here for this one crime, which I didn't do anyway," he said. "But they think 200 sex crimes and I'm the worst criminal in the history of the world, including John Dillinger and that numbskull Kenneth Bianchi upstairs."

And that same person actually does have a movie of his life and a book too and he is proud of it!  He even believes others are jealous of him because of it!

[chrisdesigner1971]

But it's really not the same thing, unless they used those names and altered them to match their own name. My point is not that they referenced a criminal out of context, it's that they altered the character count to match exactly the name of the perp in question.

[kg]

I was referring to your comment on the juxtaposition of James and Son of Sam.

In each line, an historical criminal figure + a contemporary one.