Richmond / Armour / Oscar Clifton

[Agent99 aka Sandia]

Aug 17, 2017 6:56:46 GMT zforce said:

Aug 16, 2017 0:30:29 GMT Agent99 aka Sandia said:

 I noticed that some people "liked" this post so I feel the need to comment.  At the time, I didn't know there was a town named Snelling.  "Come from Snelling seems to make more sense when talking about a route he was planning on taking through the town of Snelling"  There are a couple of lakes nearby and one victim used to water ski on those lakes so that might be of interest.

Donna Richmond, I've since come to believe that Oscar Clifton did kill her for quite a few reasons.   The paint marks on her bike not matching is very interesting though.  But there are so many other things about other witnesses in the area that pointed to Oscar.  Jennifer talking to a man in a white car I am not sure is factual.  Oscar's receipt book being stolen from K-Mart, did the VR know he was going to go out and find someone to kill and steal Oscar's book ahead of time?  That seems unlikely.

The thing is I don't know and want to back off my previous opinion.  More information comes out and I am not one to stubbornly hold to an opinion no matter what.

The Moscorro flasher incident 30 minutes prior to the Richmond abduction pretty much seals Oscar's guilt for me. She identified Oscar as the flasher at trial and said he drove a white truck. Meaning even if she was wrong, the flasher at the very least looked like Oscar, drove a similar vehicle, and had was in possession of his receipt book. Highly unlikely to be someone else.

I also believe it likely that Clifton was, coincidentally to Richmond's arrival, lying in wait in the area where the bike was found, thus explaining why the paint samples were from some other source.

I agree with you and then there was the grove workers and the young girl there plus lots of history with Oscar.  I've actually wondered if he could be responsible for Jennifer Armour.  I understand he had an alibi that he was working in Las Vegas at the time.  Jennifer Armour was murdered on a Weekend, Sunday 11/24/74, and the following Thursday was Thanksgiving.  Is it possible he made a trip home that LE did not know about?

[zforce]

Aug 17, 2017 7:45:34 GMT Agent99 aka Sandia said:

Aug 17, 2017 6:56:46 GMT zforce said:

The Moscorro flasher incident 30 minutes prior to the Richmond abduction pretty much seals Oscar's guilt for me. She identified Oscar as the flasher at trial and said he drove a white truck. Meaning even if she was wrong, the flasher at the very least looked like Oscar, drove a similar vehicle, and had was in possession of his receipt book. Highly unlikely to be someone else.

I also believe it likely that Clifton was, coincidentally to Richmond's arrival, lying in wait in the area where the bike was found, thus explaining why the paint samples were from some other source.

I agree with you and then there was the grove workers and the young girl there plus lots of history with Oscar.  I've actually wondered if he could be responsible for Jennifer Armour.  I understand he had an alibi that he was working in Las Vegas at the time.  Jennifer Armour was murdered on a Weekend, Sunday 11/24/74, and the following Thursday was Thanksgiving.  Is it possible he made a trip home that LE did not know about?

I wonder if his daughters were friends with Armour? They were all around the same age and went to Mt. Whitney.

[Agent99 aka Sandia]

Aug 17, 2017 7:57:43 GMT zforce said:

Aug 17, 2017 7:45:34 GMT Agent99 aka Sandia said:

I agree with you and then there was the grove workers and the young girl there plus lots of history with Oscar.  I've actually wondered if he could be responsible for Jennifer Armour.  I understand he had an alibi that he was working in Las Vegas at the time.  Jennifer Armour was murdered on a Weekend, Sunday 11/24/74, and the following Thursday was Thanksgiving.  Is it possible he made a trip home that LE did not know about?

I wonder if his daughters were friends with Armour? They were all around the same age and went to Mt. Whitney.

I've been told that it is possible they knew each other, same school, and kind of the same social class is the nicest way to explain it.  Rereading my notes on Oscar, I am convinced he was guilty of the murder of Donna Richmond at least and I'm actually seriously wondering about Jennifer Armour.  If he was guilty of Donna Richmond's murder, and he was convicted of it, then the time line that would have given him an alibi was not believed and therefore they did not believe his relatives that gave him the alibi.  What if they also did not admit to him being home on 11/24/74 from Las Vegas.  It was a Sunday, so I assume he wouldn't have been working.

[zforce]

Aug 17, 2017 18:32:50 GMT Agent99 aka Sandia said:

Aug 17, 2017 7:57:43 GMT zforce said:

I wonder if his daughters were friends with Armour? They were all around the same age and went to Mt. Whitney.

I've been told that it is possible they knew each other, same school, and kind of the same social class is the nicest way to explain it.  Rereading my notes on Oscar, I am convinced he was guilty of the murder of Donna Richmond at least and I'm actually seriously wondering about Jennifer Armour.  If he was guilty of Donna Richmond's murder, and he was convicted of it, then the time line that would have given him an alibi was not believed and therefore they did not believe his relatives that gave him the alibi.  What if they also did not admit to him being home on 11/24/74 from Las Vegas.  It was a Sunday, so I assume he wouldn't have been working.

I think she actually disappeared 11/15/74 on a Friday.....the night of the Redwood/Mt Whitney Cowhide game. She wasn't found until the 24th. Still haven't heard if the coroner felt she died the night she disappeared.....but I would find it odd that had she went into the water on the 15th that her body would stay in the same spot for over a week.

[Agent99 aka Sandia]

Aug 18, 2017 4:12:27 GMT zforce said:

Aug 17, 2017 18:32:50 GMT Agent99 aka Sandia said:

I've been told that it is possible they knew each other, same school, and kind of the same social class is the nicest way to explain it.  Rereading my notes on Oscar, I am convinced he was guilty of the murder of Donna Richmond at least and I'm actually seriously wondering about Jennifer Armour.  If he was guilty of Donna Richmond's murder, and he was convicted of it, then the time line that would have given him an alibi was not believed and therefore they did not believe his relatives that gave him the alibi.  What if they also did not admit to him being home on 11/24/74 from Las Vegas.  It was a Sunday, so I assume he wouldn't have been working.

I think she actually disappeared 11/15/74 on a Friday.....the night of the Redwood/Mt Whitney Cowhide game. She wasn't found until the 24th. Still haven't heard if the coroner felt she died the night she disappeared.....but I would find it odd that had she went into the water on the 15th that her body would stay in the same spot for over a week.

Oh, I see.  I found that date on the internet so that must be an error because you are right she disappeared on the night of a game, which was on a Friday.  Still, it was a weekend and I think Oscar could have come home for the weekend.  Thanksgiving was still about 2 weeks in the future though.  Was she found in the same spot they think she went into the water?  Could she have been caught up in some bushes?  Or did they find her further down from where she was put in the river.  She had her hands tied, so she was definitely murdered yet the cause was drowning.  I hope the beast that did this to her met an awful fate.

[zforce]

Aug 18, 2017 5:07:09 GMT Agent99 aka Sandia said:

Aug 18, 2017 4:12:27 GMT zforce said:

I think she actually disappeared 11/15/74 on a Friday.....the night of the Redwood/Mt Whitney Cowhide game. She wasn't found until the 24th. Still haven't heard if the coroner felt she died the night she disappeared.....but I would find it odd that had she went into the water on the 15th that her body would stay in the same spot for over a week.

Oh, I see.  I found that date on the internet so that must be an error because you are right she disappeared on the night of a game, which was on a Friday.  Still, it was a weekend and I think Oscar could have come home for the weekend.  Thanksgiving was still about 2 weeks in the future though.  Was she found in the same spot they think she went into the water?  Could she have been caught up in some bushes?  Or did they find her further down from where she was put in the river.  She had her hands tied, so she was definitely murdered yet the cause was drowning.  I hope the beast that did this to her met an awful fate.

I'm not sure anything official about Armour has ever been made public. I've never seen a police report, but based on when she went missing and when she was found a few things need to be taken into account: Was she murdered the night she went missing? Was she murdered at a later date and then placed in the canal?

Based on the current of the canal detectives today could determine where she likely was placed on the water. I'm just not sure they did this back then.

[V]

Bump.

[CrimeGuru]

Everyone go back and read the first post on this thread. Do you think it is a coincidence EAR left the Danville papers to throw off LE and send them on a wild goose chase. VR left convicted child rapist Oscar Cliftons receipt book near bicycle/abduction site of Donna Richmond?

[nowhereman]

wow. This thread has become very interesting. A lot of merit to the logic here.

[V]

I’d like to know the color of the car JJD was driving during this time.

[threetwozero]

They should seriously try dna testing those hairs found in the ski cap again.

[threetwozero]

I doubt TCSO wants anything to do with this. They are going to act like Richmond is a closed case and had nothing to do with VR.

[barneyonebulletfife]

So is it fair to say DeAngelo possibly framed Clifton in the Richmond murder?
I saw someone had posted this scenario on Reddit yesterday.
This article says there were tire tracks recovered, but never says if there was evidence leading to Clifton's vehicle.

Attachments:

[Jay7777]

This thread needs to go back to the top! Great material that needs to be reinvestigated in light of what has happened with the arrest of JJD. It fits JJD MO to frame someone else, especially in his early years. WE know he is VR, so this is totally in the realm of reality, that he did these crimes as well, while servicing as LE.

[dengas]

Apr 27, 2018 22:08:02 GMT barneyonebulletfife said:

So is it fair to say DeAngelo possibly framed Clifton in the Richmond murder?
I saw someone had posted this scenario on Reddit yesterday.
This article says there were tire tracks recovered, but never says if there was evidence leading to Clifton's vehicle.