Random "Excitement's Crave" reference?

[justasking]

Apr 20, 2018 17:15:21 GMT tomjones said:

Apr 20, 2018 16:35:17 GMT justasking said:

And to have a serial rapist aspiring to write a sonnet is not the most usual setting to begin with. And we don't even know what was the purpose of the act of writing the poem and sending it in those three letters. It has suspicious typicality to it, like he wanted to fake out a parody of "communication" from a serial criminal. A "genre" that was already established at that point in time, and a current topic also in the case of 'Son of Sam', who was explicitly referenced in the poem. Sending the letter to a newspaper and a TV station and ending the poem with: "see you in the press or on T.V." was already something stereotypical at that point, and the "see you..."-sentence can be seen as a close paraphrase of what Zodiac had said in his letter. So yeah, we have the highly unusual aspect or a suburban serial rapist aspiring to write sonnets as the content, but at the same time we have the highly usual conformity with the still fresh but already typical "norm" of the form: "communication from a serial criminal". My opinion is that there may be more calculation and not-so-straightforward intentions to this act than what would seem to be the case when taken at face value. But it would be tiresome to argue about that. Because if nothing more is even potentially seen behind this act, then there is nothing to talk about. It's just a shitty poem he sent because he wanted "fame".

He sent it because he's a narcissist, in my opinion. Your opinion is he wrote it as a serial rapist. We differ there.

I was referring more to the fact that people tend to think he sent it as a serial rapist, since he identifies himself as the 'East Area Rapist' in the poem's signature. My thinking is that he may have been the person who was the serial rapist in question, and who may have misrepresented himself on purpose as someone who aspires to follow in "footsteps" of famous criminals such as 'Son of Sam'. If we go with the thought about precedents as the definition of something closer to truth, then we may also note how the usual trait of these typical lettered communications from serial criminals is that there tends to be many of them throughout time. But in the EAR case, there was only this one. This solitariness of the (lettered) communication also adds to the possibility that it was more of a "fake" communication. Since if this was his actual channel for narcissistic gratification, what stopped him from writing some more of those "poems"? I think his (nevertheless, a narcissistic form of) gratification may have been derived more from the act of misrepresenting himself as "authentically" belonging to those who gratified themselves through this channel. Just for the "fun" of it, perhaps. But it creates a distance between his actual person and the communication of EC. But how could I know, it's just a suggestion. Any "interpretation" can't be actually validated whatsoever.

[tomjones]

Apr 20, 2018 17:32:00 GMT justasking said:

Apr 20, 2018 17:15:21 GMT tomjones said:

He sent it because he's a narcissist, in my opinion. Your opinion is he wrote it as a serial rapist. We differ there.

I was referring more to the fact that people tend to think he sent it as a serial rapist, since he identifies himself as the 'East Area Rapist' in the poem's signature. My thinking is that he may have been the person who was the serial rapist in question, and who may have misrepresented himself on purpose as someone who aspires to follow in "footsteps" of famous criminals such as 'Son of Sam'. If we go with the thought about precedents as the definition of something closer to truth, then we may also note how the usual trait of these typical lettered communications from serial criminals is that there tends to be many of them throughout time. But in the EAR case, there was only this one. This solitariness of the (lettered) communication also adds to the possibility that it was more of a "fake" communication. Since if this was his actual channel for narcissistic gratification, what stopped him from writing some more of those "poems"? I think his (nevertheless, a narcissistic form of) gratification may have been derived more from the act of misrepresenting himself as "authentically" belonging to those who gratified themselves through this channel. Just for the "fun" of it, perhaps. But it creates a distance between his actual person and the communication of EC. But how could I know, it's just a suggestion. Any "interpretation" can't be actually validated whatsoever.

Maybe nobody made him an offer to make a movie about his life? If that's the case, it's a shame. They should've at least lead him on like they did BTK.

[justasking]

Apr 20, 2018 17:34:50 GMT tomjones said:

Apr 20, 2018 17:32:00 GMT justasking said:

I was referring more to the fact that people tend to think he sent it as a serial rapist, since he identifies himself as the 'East Area Rapist' in the poem's signature. My thinking is that he may have been the person who was the serial rapist in question, and who may have misrepresented himself on purpose as someone who aspires to follow in "footsteps" of famous criminals such as 'Son of Sam'. If we go with the thought about precedents as the definition of something closer to truth, then we may also note how the usual trait of these typical lettered communications from serial criminals is that there tends to be many of them throughout time. But in the EAR case, there was only this one. This solitariness of the (lettered) communication also adds to the possibility that it was more of a "fake" communication. Since if this was his actual channel for narcissistic gratification, what stopped him from writing some more of those "poems"? I think his (nevertheless, a narcissistic form of) gratification may have been derived more from the act of misrepresenting himself as "authentically" belonging to those who gratified themselves through this channel. Just for the "fun" of it, perhaps. But it creates a distance between his actual person and the communication of EC. But how could I know, it's just a suggestion. Any "interpretation" can't be actually validated whatsoever.

Maybe nobody made him an offer to make a movie about his life? If that's the case, it's a shame. They should've at least lead him on like they did BTK.

Well, if he actually craved for a movie to be made about himself (or for any great public spectacles revolving around himself), then one might imagine he would have craved Sacramento (or whatever institution) even further with more communications. But he just settled with his fate of not getting the fame he so much craved for.

[tomjones]

Apr 20, 2018 17:46:56 GMT justasking said:

Apr 20, 2018 17:34:50 GMT tomjones said:

Maybe nobody made him an offer to make a movie about his life? If that's the case, it's a shame. They should've at least lead him on like they did BTK.

Well, if he actually craved for a movie to be made about himself (or for any great public spectacles revolving around himself), then one might imagine he would have craved Sacramento (or whatever institution) even further with more communications. But he just settled with his fate of not getting the fame he so much craved for.

Sounded to me like he craved financial muscle more than fame.

[justasking]

Apr 20, 2018 17:56:36 GMT tomjones said:

Apr 20, 2018 17:46:56 GMT justasking said:

Well, if he actually craved for a movie to be made about himself (or for any great public spectacles revolving around himself), then one might imagine he would have craved Sacramento (or whatever institution) even further with more communications. But he just settled with his fate of not getting the fame he so much craved for.

Sounded to me like he craved financial muscle more than fame.

To me, the "payment" was more of a symbolic content for the fame that was the main point. The "Jessie James" (sic) "has been seen by all" without payment for being seen, and he was among those in whose footsteps the "others" (such as the narrator) were feeling the "temptations call". It's both; a pay by movie as opposed to the mundane "fixed pay", but also about "being seen by all", comparable to "having an author" (to make one known and "famous"), and also about "seeing you" "in press and on T.V.", which translates more into "due fame" than into a "due payment" by money - although, again, the fame and payment are two sides of the same coin. Craving Sacramento to pay by fame, figuratively and literally. This "movie" thing also has a suspicious resonance with a Zodiac letter where Zodiac craves for a movie about himself. Not to say that the author thought about it in such "refined" terms, but I just can't avoid the impression that there is something akin to an intentional pastiche going on with the "movie" and the "see you in the press or on T.V.", as opposed to the author being completely oblivious to the apparent imitation. But yeah, might be or not.

The typicality of criminals acting in black & white ways can also be supplemented with the fact that it's also an essential trait to criminals to mislead, to misrepresent, meaning: to lie and to fake things (successfully or not). It's not about mastery per se, and doesn't turn them into some intel agents or great war strategists, but the tendency is still there and may apply to a communication such as EC.

[lisacarolfremont]

Everytime I read this poem it makes me crazy. No like!

To the OPs point about the verbiage being singular - it’s an interesting point which can remind us of how our language can reveal many things about us. Especially where we are from or where our parents/those who raised us hail from.

Morph just posted an inquiry (I need to insert thread link here)
asking us to listen to an audio clip & compare the suspected EARs calls to a POI.

This has me thinking about how what evidence we have in regards to what the EARs said in the calls, what was said to the survivors and what he may of written which could point to a specific origin for him or his parents, i.e. OK influence, Canadian influence or Midwest peculiarities.

Here is a Stanford study about California “English” dialects:

news.stanford.edu/news/2012/august/california-dialect-linguistics-080612.html

[cornbread]

Apr 20, 2018 17:46:56 GMT justasking said:

Apr 20, 2018 17:34:50 GMT tomjones said:

Maybe nobody made him an offer to make a movie about his life? If that's the case, it's a shame. They should've at least lead him on like they did BTK.

Well, if he actually craved for a movie to be made about himself (or for any great public spectacles revolving around himself), then one might imagine he would have craved Sacramento (or whatever institution) even further with more communications. But he just settled with his fate of not getting the fame he so much craved for.

 The sign-off "See you in the press or on T.V." is quite similar to the sign off in the Zodiac-attributed May 1978 "Channel Nine" letter "See you in the news!" EAR (presumably) mentions "make a movie of my life." The May 1978 letter references "Hey --- you actors --- this is your lucky break. Remember -- whoever plays me has his work cut out for him." Another "Zodiac" letter mentions "I am waiting for a good movie about me. who will play me?"

These came a few months after "Excitement's Crave," of course. I think it was part of the times, to be honest --- Son of Sam and the like were covered breathlessly, and this era was in some ways sort of the beginning of "wall to wall" coverage and celebrity/serial killer criminaldom.

The dichotomy being that you can't monetize this sort of "fame," really, unless you are caught, and it's only after you are caught that people even know that YOU were the mastermind behnd all those crimes (and, if you're caught, then people no longer think you're a mastermind.).

I do very much think that, if he survived, there are some "look at me" moments out there that have yet to be discovered, even if this "deserving pest" post isn't one of them.

[justasking]

Apr 20, 2018 22:43:44 GMT cornbread said:

Apr 20, 2018 17:46:56 GMT justasking said:

Well, if he actually craved for a movie to be made about himself (or for any great public spectacles revolving around himself), then one might imagine he would have craved Sacramento (or whatever institution) even further with more communications. But he just settled with his fate of not getting the fame he so much craved for.

 The sign-off "See you in the press or on T.V." is quite similar to the sign off in the Zodiac-attributed May 1978 "Channel Nine" letter "See you in the news!" EAR (presumably) mentions "make a movie of my life." The May 1978 letter references "Hey --- you actors --- this is your lucky break. Remember -- whoever plays me has his work cut out for him." Another "Zodiac" letter mentions "I am waiting for a good movie about me. who will play me?"

These came a few months after "Excitement's Crave," of course. I think it was part of the times, to be honest --- Son of Sam and the like were covered breathlessly, and this era was in some ways sort of the beginning of "wall to wall" coverage and celebrity/serial killer criminaldom.

The dichotomy being that you can't monetize this sort of "fame," really, unless you are caught, and it's only after you are caught that people even know that YOU were the mastermind behnd all those crimes (and, if you're caught, then people no longer think you're a mastermind.).

I do very much think that, if he survived, there are some "look at me" moments out there that have yet to be discovered, even if this "deserving pest" post isn't one of them.

I seem to have been under the wrong impression that those "Zodiac" sentiments had been expressed in his authentic letters already during the beginning of the 70's, before EC. But like you said, that scenario was part of the general "spirit" of the times. And in some weird way that makes the 'Excitement's Crave' stand out more, in the sense that, in some way, the poem seems to articulate some kind of a "quintessence" of that whole general phenomenon, instead of only being a specimen of it. As if the author was trying to give a description, some kind of a "pure" picture of what was already, in a sense, starting to become a stereotype at that time, although it was connected to the EAR in particular. An individual "representative" (of that phenomenon of "criminal fame") in form, but still a general "representation" in content. That's how it could be seen, anyway. But the similarity and generality of it all may be exactly what it means to be in tune with the "times".

In any case, the expression: "deserving pest" is peculiar, and whether or not this writer on 'topix' meant it in any connection to EC or not, the origins of the expression would be of some interest. In some sense, I don't think the expression has other origins than EC. Of course it might have, but the theme of "deserving fame" was already touched on earlier in the poem before that signature tercet, and "pest" seems to have been intended to rhyme with "rapist". So both elements for constructing "deserving pest" are already there to begin with. If the author was the inventor, then it's just that much more peculiar to find it from some other context also. Especially if the poem wasn't actually well-known around the internet etc. at that time yet.

Edit: I might add that his "look at me" moments might in fact be more in the sense of "nostalgia" during his older years. When he was young and in the middle of his criminal career, it may have sufficed in itself. But when (and if) he's older now, there may still be the "temptation" to make it somehow acknowledged by some subtle hints which would still seem "safe" enough for him. Of course, it wouldn't be acknowledged if no-one actually got the hint, but he could still be satisfied with this compromise of communication without actual reception. Someone would just have to find those hints and "get" them.

[lisacarolfremont]

“...Especially if the poem wasn’t well known around the internet...”

Yes! If true it would dispell any lingering myths that the EAR is a luddite hiding in a room with blackout curtains and no wifi.

It could also provide a small chance his online presence could accidentally reveal breadcrumbs via words and phrases unique to him. We can laugh at this longshot, yet it was a humble computer disc which foiled BTK.

[cornbread]

Apr 20, 2018 23:37:02 GMT justasking said:

Apr 20, 2018 22:43:44 GMT cornbread said:

 The sign-off "See you in the press or on T.V." is quite similar to the sign off in the Zodiac-attributed May 1978 "Channel Nine" letter "See you in the news!" EAR (presumably) mentions "make a movie of my life." The May 1978 letter references "Hey --- you actors --- this is your lucky break. Remember -- whoever plays me has his work cut out for him." Another "Zodiac" letter mentions "I am waiting for a good movie about me. who will play me?"

These came a few months after "Excitement's Crave," of course. I think it was part of the times, to be honest --- Son of Sam and the like were covered breathlessly, and this era was in some ways sort of the beginning of "wall to wall" coverage and celebrity/serial killer criminaldom.

The dichotomy being that you can't monetize this sort of "fame," really, unless you are caught, and it's only after you are caught that people even know that YOU were the mastermind behnd all those crimes (and, if you're caught, then people no longer think you're a mastermind.).

I do very much think that, if he survived, there are some "look at me" moments out there that have yet to be discovered, even if this "deserving pest" post isn't one of them.

I seem to have been under the wrong impression that those "Zodiac" sentiments had been expressed in his authentic letters already during the beginning of the 70's, before EC. But like you said, that scenario was part of the general "spirit" of the times. And in some weird way that makes the 'Excitement's Crave' stand out more, in the sense that, in some way, the poem seems to articulate some kind of a "quintessence" of that whole general phenomenon, instead of only being a specimen of it. As if the author was trying to give a description, some kind of a "pure" picture of what was already, in a sense, starting to become a stereotype at that time, although it was connected to the EAR in particular. An individual "representative" (of that phenomenon of "criminal fame") in form, but still a general "representation" in content. That's how it could be seen, anyway. But the similarity and generality of it all may be exactly what it means to be in tune with the "times".

In any case, the expression: "deserving pest" is peculiar, and whether or not this writer on 'topix' meant it in any connection to EC or not, the origins of the expression would be of some interest. In some sense, I don't think the expression has other origins than EC. Of course it might have, but the theme of "deserving fame" was already touched on earlier in the poem before that signature tercet, and "pest" seems to have been intended to rhyme with "rapist". So both elements for constructing "deserving pest" are already there to begin with. If the author was the inventor, then it's just that much more peculiar to find it from some other context also. Especially if the poem wasn't actually well-known around the internet etc. at that time yet.

Edit: I might add that his "look at me" moments might in fact be more in the sense of "nostalgia" during his older years. When he was young and in the middle of his criminal career, it may have sufficed in itself. But when (and if) he's older now, there may still be the "temptation" to make it somehow acknowledged by some subtle hints which would still seem "safe" enough for him. Of course, it wouldn't be acknowledged if no-one actually got the hint, but he could still be satisfied with this compromise of communication without actual reception. Someone would just have to find those hints and "get" them.

If alive, I think he would do that kind of thing: put the tiniest of nuggets out there from time to time, especially if he was assured of his anonymity. (Technically, he did do that kind of thing, at least with phone calls.)

I've never been a "EAR reads the boards" guy, but, if he were alive today, I could see how reading about one of those little breadcrumbs getting people talking could be titillating to him, a safe sort of expression of his enduring genius (if only in his eyes).

[literari]

I

[literari]

I went down this rabbit hole the other day, going way back
and way forward to try and understand in entirety what this forum was about. It did seem like a bunch of trolls, and also that clearly people reappearing under differnent names. Interesting, the Rudy Waltz Guy is a name from a Vonnegut story called Deadeye Dick:

“The novel's main character, Rudy Waltz, nicknamed Deadeye Dick, commits accidental manslaughter as a child (he kills a pregnant woman who was vacuuming) and lives his whole life feeling guilty and seeking forgiveness for it. He was so traumatized by the events directly after the woman's death that he lives life as an asexual "neuter," neither homosexual nor heterosexual. He tells the story of his life as a middle-aged man expatriate in Haiti, which symbolizes New York City, until the end, when the stream of time of the story catches up with him. At this point, he confronts an event that has been suggested and referred to throughout the novel. The generic Midwestern town of Midland City, Ohio (also the setting of Breakfast of Champions) in which Rudy was raised is virtually destroyed by a neutron bomb. “

There is a lot of strange subtext in that thread. A lot of obscure references for some random wv Topix forum.

[starr]

Apr 20, 2018 17:02:32 GMT tricksea said:

Apr 20, 2018 15:48:41 GMT cornbread said:

Indeed. In French it's la peste 

Fantastic! It also translates to Plague in French too. Well my work is done here. Please solve this case with my incredibly useful insight. 

Deserving Plague. "Sacramento, you deserve this plague. A pox on your houses!"  Is what I was thinking from a "gives it new meaning" angle. Just my opinion though. I don't actually care about this poem too much other than that unique phraseology. 

In swedish to, in my head i read it as ’plague’. Whats the exact definition of the word in english?

[tricksea]

In today’s American vernacular when you are using it to describe a person, it means “annoying or nuisance”. If you are talking about non-humans it’s not quite plaque or pestilence, but it is a destructive insect or animal.

[cornbread]

Apr 22, 2018 6:25:56 GMT literari said:

I went down this rabbit hole the other day, going way back
and way forward to try and understand in entirety what this forum was about. It did seem like a bunch of trolls, and also that clearly people reappearing under differnent names. Interesting, the Rudy Waltz Guy is a name from a Vonnegut story called Deadeye Dick:

“The novel's main character, Rudy Waltz, nicknamed Deadeye Dick, commits accidental manslaughter as a child (he kills a pregnant woman who was vacuuming) and lives his whole life feeling guilty and seeking forgiveness for it. He was so traumatized by the events directly after the woman's death that he lives life as an asexual "neuter," neither homosexual nor heterosexual. He tells the story of his life as a middle-aged man expatriate in Haiti, which symbolizes New York City, until the end, when the stream of time of the story catches up with him. At this point, he confronts an event that has been suggested and referred to throughout the novel. The generic Midwestern town of Midland City, Ohio (also the setting of Breakfast of Champions) in which Rudy was raised is virtually destroyed by a neutron bomb. “

There is a lot of strange subtext in that thread. A lot of obscure references for some random wv Topix forum.

That is a good find -- either a crazy coincidence, given the subject matter of the post, or a fitting pseudonym. Despite my love of humor and my writing/teaching background, my history with Vonnegut is limited past 

I had someone contact me recently (via PM) with a POI someone had found back in 2010 on an old Websleuths board. The POI was from/had connections with WV, and had spent some time in prison there. The person had some naval connections too, which dovetails with something V noted about Jacksonville. So, time permitting today, I'll be going down that rabbit hole. 

Edited to add: 2007, not 2010: www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?25334-CA-East-Area-Rapist-aka-The-Original-Night-Stalker-1976-86/page2&styleid=21