Why He Stopped

[rozb]

I've always had the theory that the UNSUB quit after Janelle Cruz because he was horrified and disgusted by his own actions. It struck me as important that he seemed to REALLY get off on the sheer violence and brutality of this murder--like your typical Ted Bundy serial killer. I agree with Shelby that he really wanted to brutally murder and cut up women all along, but he was holding that impulse in check. When he did kill, I bet he rationalized it as "protecting" himself. Even with the couples, I'm sure he told himself he was just getting rid of witnesses. He covered them up so he wouldn't have to look at what he was doing. But the Cruz murder was full on gore and sex blood lust, and there's evidence from the "biological" material left at the scene that this really got his rocks off. I feel that's who he was all along; that's what he'd always wanted to do. Everything else was a means of denying that urge. 

At that point he could have continued along the same path and become just your typical serial killer who leaves a trail of murdered females in his wake, one by one. He stopped right at the moment a lot of killers find their purpose in life and just continue on.

Instead he stops cold (as far as we know) and "goes straight" and becomes Mr. Grandpa in the suburbs. Apparently he said something like "But I've lived a good life" when he was arrested. He decides to become a dad to three daughters, who apparently grew up to be successful and "normal." he could have left the family and devoted himself to more killing. Maybe the family is what constrained him.

The stories of him being a crotchety old man full of rage makes sense. He is still suppressing his urges even now. 

I'm not praising him, just saying.

[bonghit]

I think it's a number of factors.
Criminality tends to decrease with age, except for maybe those in organized crime. He was 39ish at the time of his final murder; he probably had nowhere near the level of dexterity that he had during the VR days, and investigative technology was just starting to take off. He had a child, and another on the way.. he was married...

He probably fostered the same misogynistic hatred at others' happiness for a long time after 1986, but he had enough self-control to stop his spree. Of course, there may be more victims to be discovered

[stanley]

Apr 26, 2018 13:51:42 GMT bonghit said:

I think it's a number of factors.
Criminality tends to decrease with age, except for maybe those in organized crime. He was 39ish at the time of his final murder; he probably had nowhere near the level of dexterity that he had during the VR days, and investigative technology was just starting to take off. He had a child, and another on the way.. he was married...

He probably fostered the same misogynistic hatred at others' happiness for a long time after 1986, but he had enough self-control to stop his spree. Of course, there may be more victims to be discovered

I think you are mostly correct but I lean on one fact: the timing of his children. I'm going to risk sounding flippant here, but it's hard to do anything outside of the house when you have young children at home, and I assume that would include being a full time serial killer/rapist.

We know he took a 6 year break after his first child, and then had another child shortly after his last murder, followed by another only 3 years later. By the time his child situation would have allowed him to be out all night sometime in the mid 90s he was well into his 40s and Bong might be correct, by then he was older and his mysoginistic urges may have been tempered by having 3 young daughters at home.

[SertumAEnigmA]

Psychologists and sociologists today are breaking away from the "old stereotypical data obtained by Douglas and co" when they began publishing flawed data as fact and then used it for profiles. We know humans knew how to kill before we knew how to speak. While nobody here will admit it, every human being has thought of or considered murder. Whether fantasized or actually practicing alibis in the mirror. Now the reason why most people don't kill, is not because we lack some "sexual urge to kill"(that's Hollywood and profiler speak), but because we have value for human life. But we've all thought of reasons why we would kill. Be it "if someone molested one of my kids" or if "someone stole my Mustang".

We could go on. What happens in killers, especially serial killers, you will notice they devalue 'certain type of person'. Be it women, minorities, ex-wife's boyfriends or children or rival gang member. People over time will fantasize and justify killing these types of people for whatever reason. The longer they justify, it starts to become rational. Other behaviors, such as if you were a lifelong burglar and then the opportunity presented itself, then yes. One of the biggest misconceptions is that murder is the evolution a crime. A burglar does not become a rapist who becomes a murderer. 'Criminalism'(I use that word because Hollywood and folks tend to act like crime is a progressive disease) is not progressive or an evolution. Violence is a behavior. The way a person acts or responds to things. If a person is violent by nature and happens to start breaking into homes, then yes, he will likely end up maiming or killing someone if he feels justified. To be very clear, a person who steals doesn't grow to murder. Most people commit crime, tend to be good people in general. Yet either because they're desperate or because they lack proper role models, they commit crimes for what they feel as necessity. Sadly, because of shows like CSI and Silence of the Lambs, people think that all murderers grow from vandalism and getting their ass whooped by daddy. LE and psychiatric professionals thought so for years, but then they found a common theme with murderers.

They typically were violent people, even in their youth. Whether throwing temper tantrums as a child and destroying the home or attempting to harm animals or children, violence is a person's response to things. There are children who demonstrate violent behavior in homes where violence doesn't occur.

The biggest thing we learned, they devalue lives of others. Serial killers devalue the lives of a certain group of people. Spree killers people in general. So violent person who devalues life is who will kill. Not some deranged highly sexually charged man who has an urge to kill.

Now we can go on forever and I'm sure others will chime in on something they saw on TV or what someone said. Bottom line, unless insane or a typical Hollywood thriller script, there is no such thing as an uncontrollable urge/thirst/compulsion to kill. They may want to kill, but it's not uncontrollable. It's contradictory. That's a scumbag attempting to mystify an already salivating public with a "I couldn't help it". If a person could not control themselves to kill, they would just kill. No meticulous planning or stalking a victim. They would just kill.

Yes, it is totally possible for serial killers to stop. Yes, there are people who have killed three people and never killed again. I know a lot of folks want to buy into this they are "thirsting" for another kill, but thats fantasy.

Reason why I believe he stopped killing(if he did stop in 1986), likely has to do with a number of things. First, his age. Based on what we now heard from people who knew him, he had violent outbursts, but he aged. Men around thirty start to lose testosterone and it begins to decrease. If you look at other violent criminals, domestic abusers and murderers they do start to slow down. Around forty is when it really begins to plummet. Because testosterone does have some correlation with violence, especially people who are violent by nature, this decrease will be reflected in their behaviors and actions. I believe DeAngelo had a problem with women and devalued their lives for whatever sick reason. Perhaps he thought they were nasty when men came over or had sex. Felt he should kill them because he is a lowlife.

Next, I really think his daughters may have had an affect on him. I could be wrong. But with a daughter who was about five in 1986 and grew on him or he saw her as a person. He probably started to think his daughters could suffer the same fate from someone like him. Anyone here with children knows, they change you in ways you never thought possible.

We don't know yet, but I suspect his home life may have impacted him emotionally. I've read about him being a single father, perhaps he felt he couldn't risk going to prison due to his kids. Top that with him mellowing as he aged and attachment to his girls, that's why I think he stopped. Then again, he may have killed many more or found other ways to torment women.

[Abby Normal]

Apr 26, 2018 15:14:01 GMT SertumAEnigmA said:

Psychologists and sociologists today are breaking away from the "old stereotypical data obtained by Douglas and co" when they began publishing flawed data as fact and then used it for profiles. We know humans knew how to kill before we knew how to speak. While nobody here will admit it, every human being has thought of or considered murder. Whether fantasized or actually practicing alibis in the mirror. Now the reason why most people don't kill, is not because we lack some "sexual urge to kill"(that's Hollywood and profiler speak), but because we have value for human life. But we've all thought of reasons why we would kill. Be it "if someone molested one of my kids" or if "someone stole my Mustang".

We could go on. What happens in killers, especially serial killers, you will notice they devalue 'certain type of person'. Be it women, minorities, ex-wife's boyfriends or children or rival gang member. People over time will fantasize and justify killing these types of people for whatever reason. The longer they justify, it starts to become rational. Other behaviors, such as if you were a lifelong burglar and then the opportunity presented itself, then yes. One of the biggest misconceptions is that murder is the evolution a crime. A burglar does not become a rapist who becomes a murderer. 'Criminalism'(I use that word because Hollywood and folks tend to act like crime is a progressive disease) is not progressive or an evolution. Violence is a behavior. The way a person acts or responds to things. If a person is violent by nature and happens to start breaking into homes, then yes, he will likely end up maiming or killing someone if he feels justified. To be very clear, a person who steals doesn't grow to murder. Most people commit crime, tend to be good people in general. Yet either because they're desperate or because they lack proper role models, they commit crimes for what they feel as necessity. Sadly, because of shows like CSI and Silence of the Lambs, people think that all murderers grow from vandalism and getting their ass whooped by daddy. LE and psychiatric professionals thought so for years, but then they found a common theme with murderers.

They typically were violent people, even in their youth. Whether throwing temper tantrums as a child and destroying the home or attempting to harm animals or children, violence is a person's response to things. There are children who demonstrate violent behavior in homes where violence doesn't occur.

The biggest thing we learned, they devalue lives of others. Serial killers devalue the lives of a certain group of people. Spree killers people in general. So violent person who devalues life is who will kill. Not some deranged highly sexually charged man who has an urge to kill.

Now we can go on forever and I'm sure others will chime in on something they saw on TV or what someone said. Bottom line, unless insane or a typical Hollywood thriller script, there is no such thing as an uncontrollable urge/thirst/compulsion to kill. They may want to kill, but it's not uncontrollable. It's contradictory. That's a scumbag attempting to mystify an already salivating public with a "I couldn't help it". If a person could not control themselves to kill, they would just kill. No meticulous planning or stalking a victim. They would just kill.

Yes, it is totally possible for serial killers to stop. Yes, there are people who have killed three people and never killed again. I know a lot of folks want to buy into this they are "thirsting" for another kill, but thats fantasy.

Reason why I believe he stopped killing(if he did stop in 1986), likely has to do with a number of things. First, his age. Based on what we now heard from people who knew him, he had violent outbursts, but he aged. Men around thirty start to lose testosterone and it begins to decrease. If you look at other violent criminals, domestic abusers and murderers they do start to slow down. Around forty is when it really begins to plummet. Because testosterone does have some correlation with violence, especially people who are violent by nature, this decrease will be reflected in their behaviors and actions. I believe DeAngelo had a problem with women and devalued their lives for whatever sick reason. Perhaps he thought they were nasty when men came over or had sex. Felt he should kill them because he is a lowlife.

Next, I really think his daughters may have had an affect on him. I could be wrong. But with a daughter who was about five in 1986 and grew on him or he saw her as a person. He probably started to think his daughters could suffer the same fate from someone like him. Anyone here with children knows, they change you in ways you never thought possible.

We don't know yet, but I suspect his home life may have impacted him emotionally. I've read about him being a single father, perhaps he felt he couldn't risk going to prison due to his kids. Top that with him mellowing as he aged and attachment to his girls, that's why I think he stopped. Then again, he may have killed many more or found other ways to torment women.




Hi Sertum
good post and agree with most of what you write here. I would just point out that most serial killers there is a sexual component to their crimes. they used to call them Lust Murderers I believe. There is a certain sexual thrill that they achieve even if there is no overt sexual component to their crimes. This guy was exhibiting this even in his Visalia Ransacker phase. the going through womens underwear, looking at pictures, stealing trinkets. and of course escalated to rape and murder later. interesting that the his murders started with murders of self preservation-claude snelling and the maggiores. 


I agree with you on the why he probably stopped-age and having daughters and being a single dad. its a myth that serial killers cant stop, or will only stop due to death, incarceration or moving away. good post.

[brow]

The periods where he stopped seem to coincide with periods of change in his life, which is what many suspected all along. He was fired from the police services in 1979, the same year the EAR attacks stopped. I read, though this is unconfirmed, that he had three daughters, two of which were born in 1981 and 1986 respectively. Those years fit the timeline when he had gone silent, so it's logical to assume that having family obligations caused him to scale back his crimes. In them most current CNN article, it stated that he had at least one grandchild.

I genuinely feel bad for his family. Imagine finding out that a loved one is such a brutal monster. Hopefully they don't get dragged through the muck.

[tarquinfintimlin]

Apr 26, 2018 16:01:31 GMT brow said:

The periods where he stopped seem to coincide with periods of change in his life, which is what many suspected all along. He was fired from the police services in 1979, the same year the EAR attacks stopped. I read, though this is unconfirmed, that he had three daughters, two of which were born in 1981 and 1986 respectively. Those years fit the timeline when he had gone silent, so it's logical to assume that having family obligations caused him to scale back his crimes. In them most current CNN article, it stated that he had at least one grandchild.

I genuinely feel bad for his family. Imagine finding out that a loved one is such a brutal monster. Hopefully they don't get dragged through the muck.

There was a picture on the Daily Mail showing his backyard and there was what looked like a small badminton court.  I can imagine his grandchild playing badminton in his backyard.  I feel awful for them and can't imagine how they feel.

[sketch]

I always ventured that the reason he stopped was because of the murders.

Think about what the EAR/VR does. He inflicts terror. He lives of it, feeds of it. He goes back to his victims and taunts them, torments them more. If he was so into murder then like Bundy he would’ve stayed with it rather than commit 50 ish crimes without it.

The murders (with the exception of VR murder and Maggiores) happen in earnest after he loses his job and is very nearly caught. After this point he’s *ed off and thinks “no witnesses” and shifts to a more “go in, get out” approach, but of course where’s the terror in that?

You can’t torment a corpse.

This mixed with age and responsibility mean he doesn’t go out as much and eventually he just stops (like a teenager drinking at weekends).

He stopped because it was a hobby that wasn’t fun any more and he outgrew it.

[trystero]

Apr 26, 2018 14:00:49 GMT stanley said:

Apr 26, 2018 13:51:42 GMT bonghit said:

I think it's a number of factors.
Criminality tends to decrease with age, except for maybe those in organized crime. He was 39ish at the time of his final murder; he probably had nowhere near the level of dexterity that he had during the VR days, and investigative technology was just starting to take off. He had a child, and another on the way.. he was married...

He probably fostered the same misogynistic hatred at others' happiness for a long time after 1986, but he had enough self-control to stop his spree. Of course, there may be more victims to be discovered

I think you are mostly correct but I lean on one fact: the timing of his children. I'm going to risk sounding flippant here, but it's hard to do anything outside of the house when you have young children at home, and I assume that would include being a full time serial killer/rapist.

We know he took a 6 year break after his first child, and then had another child shortly after his last murder, followed by another only 3 years later. By the time his child situation would have allowed him to be out all night sometime in the mid 90s he was well into his 40s and Bong might be correct, by then he was older and his mysoginistic urges may have been tempered by having 3 young daughters at home.



Not flippant at all. I have two young daughters at home and reading yesterday that he was a father of three I thought "ah, that makes sense". It totally checks out that that's likely a major factor in his hiatus and eventual disappearance, though probably not the only one.

[rozb]

Yes but none of these responses considers whether there was something specifically about the Janelle Cruz murder that made him stop. They all said this was the first time he bashed someone from the front, in the face, that it was more frenzied, and more sexual--not less sexual. He was not aging and losing testosterone. On the contrary, I think he saw the degree to which he was getting off on murder and it freaked him out so much he stopped.

Maybe he felt being a good Dad to three daughters could make up for it.

[dreamsinred]

I do agree that even when he stopped he still had urges. I mean he called some of the victims even after Janelle's murder which proves he wasn't as fully redeemed as he wanted or tried to be. He still thought about what he did and still somewhat got off on causing fear in his victims.

[paulaustin]

I think he stoped because he became old and less athletic and or he had to work full time because of his three daughters

[SertumAEnigmA]

Hi Sertum
good post and agree with most of what you write here. I would just point out that most serial killers there is a sexual component to their crimes. they used to call them Lust Murderers I believe. There is a certain sexual thrill that they achieve even if there is no overt sexual component to their crimes. This guy was exhibiting this even in his Visalia Ransacker phase. the going through womens underwear, looking at pictures, stealing trinkets. and of course escalated to rape and murder later. interesting that the his murders started with murders of self preservation-claude snelling and the maggiores. 


I agree with you on the why he probably stopped-age and having daughters and being a single dad. its a myth that serial killers cant stop, or will only stop due to death, incarceration or moving away. good post.

Indeed. Perhaps I didn't explain it clear or could have said it differently. Certainly sex could be a component of a crime, however, not the cause. What I think has happened, is folks believe that murder is the byproduct of criminal activity itself or like in this instance for EARONS, sex is the cause or justification for such. It's really just not there. All the data gathered on the subject is based on studies from 1925 or before and questionnaires given to 36 serial killers afterwards.

It is very poor information and the FBI and psychological associations have dismissed them. The APA has a new study under review I believe that started in the mid-to-late 90s exploring it much more in depth. Also, taking into account factors and subjects not in original studies. First instance murderers, juveniles, domestic violence and murders by criminal organizations.

What I think is a major problem today, especially for women, is how they are misled to believe that "sex" is an uncontrollable compulsion for some men causing murder. It is as if people believe the defect is in a sexual manifestation just like a criminal manifestation.

That is simply not the case. If the "compulsion" or "urge" was so overwhelmingly uncontrollable, there would be no advanced premeditation and preparation. For instance, let's just take EARONS. If it was lust, coveting a woman for sexual gratification, then all the preparations and risks were unnecessary and could in fact get in the way of his goal. If he wanted to get off, he risked so much more that could interfere with the goal. There were easier targets, without police looking and husbands home. Many women even said he wasn't aroused or didn't climax. When he broke in and subdued them, he took his time ransacking and preparing. It's like, and I'll even say I believe he worked himself up to raping the women because it was more for shocking them and using rape to terrorize them and the community.

You're absolutely correct that crimes can have sexual components. But sex is not the motive or some sexual mental defect is the cause of murder. I believe murderers will use rape in their repertoire to torment, humiliate and terrorize their victims.

So yes, sex may be a component in murder or a crime, but not the cause. Too often Hollywood portrays these killers as some guy who is just so horny and needs to kill for gratification. Years ago that was accepted belief by LE, profilers and the general public. So much so, they would tell women and girls to "dress down" and watch "the make up".

My point is, all evidence and data today spanning all violent crime types that has a sexual component, the crime is not caused or rooted in sex. It is rooted in the person's hatred towards an individual or a group/type of people.

Even when you look at rape that occurs between an abuser and his victim in a domestic violence situation, the rape wasn't due to the "need/urge/thirst" to get laid. It is to overpower and dominate the victim.

One of the biggest problems in the late 1800s and early 1900s is that sex in America was and still is demonized. So authorities have long tried to make sex evil and the root cause of crimes and misdeeds. In reality, sex is not the cause of these women getting killed. Just like rape is due to a man just wanting to get off. Yes, sex may be a component in order to shock, terrorize, humiliate, degrade or simply dominate a victim. It is not the cause.

Viturally in all cases of serial murder, domestic violence and even murder in general, the victims have less or no value to the offender and the offender has almost always had a history of violent behavior in response to situations.

Yes, the old data profilers took was from an era where religious/political beliefs tainted and corrupted actual facts. Serial killers are known to be liars and manipulative sociopaths, yet Douglas and co seem to think they got honest responses. That on top of turn-of-the-century data from an era when sex was considered evil.

There is no doubt that sex is a component in many crimes. Nothing suggests it is the cause other than in puritan like beliefs and offenders trying to sell LE and the public that the urge is just "uncontrollable".

[sketch]

Apr 26, 2018 17:03:27 GMT dreamsinred said:

I do agree that even when he stopped he still had urges. I mean he called some of the victims even after Janelle's murder which proves he wasn't as fully redeemed as he wanted or tried to be. He still thought about what he did and still somewhat got off on causing fear in his victims.

I think he knew Janelle would be his last and wanted to make a bi deal of it.

He’s nearly 40 going after an 18 year old (mud-life crisis anyone). I think he wanted to feel like he still had it and make the last crime spectacular ...for him anyway.

[mfranklin48]

I read somewhere that in addition to saying he "lived a good life", he also said he had "pushed him out". Interesting that he seems to think of EARONS as another person. Other serial killers have had this same mindset.