Vehicle Decal

[albion]

Oct 16, 2013 19:14:46 GMT agatha said:

Oct 16, 2013 15:23:23 GMT albion said:

Agatha
I am greatly interested in the ranches around there and how the Reagan's and others were able to buy and sell them so easily. I noticed that many of them had interests in land holdings in OC and San Diego counties. I also read that the kitchen cabinet families all gathered together for holidays and things.

Maybe we could break out the cone of silence and I could ask you some other questions about that area?

Hi Albion, I would love to share any info I might have. I don't want to mislead you. I was a child in the 50/60 s, and a teen/ young 20s in the 70 s. I was fairly oblivious to the things that we have such a curiosity for now. That being said, things get discussed around a young person and often we absorb knowledge without realizing it. I'd be very happy to lower the cone. Shall we invite 99?

This thread is probably the wrong spot to talk about the ranches but...
I find it interesting that Santa Barbara, Sacramento, and the old republican stronghold of OC were the places that the crimes occurred. The idea of ranches in Socal and farming in Norcal seem to mesh. That much of this farmland was being developed at the time is true. Charlene Smith grew up on a ranch I believe. I would be interested in any info about the ranches, where they were, what political families were living on them, what crimes happened near them.

Here is another pic of a place I find interesting in its similarity to gsk crimes. It is where the Mcstay family disappeared. The neaigborhood had been experiencing burglaries beforehand and the neighbor installed a security camera. The Rancho area is where Reagan and his friends were buying and selling. And the San Marcos area experienced strong growth as well. How did they get all the water needed to move all those people out there?

[agatha]

Oct 17, 2013 2:24:36 GMT albion said:

Oct 16, 2013 19:14:46 GMT agatha said:

Hi Albion, I would love to share any info I might have. I don't want to mislead you. I was a child in the 50/60 s, and a teen/ young 20s in the 70 s. I was fairly oblivious to the things that we have such a curiosity for now. That being said, things get discussed around a young person and often we absorb knowledge without realizing it. I'd be very happy to lower the cone. Shall we invite 99?

This thread is probably the wrong spot to talk about the ranches but...
I find it interesting that Santa Barbara, Sacramento, and the old republican stronghold of OC were the places that the crimes occurred. The idea of ranches in Socal and farming in Norcal seem to mesh. That much of this farmland was being developed at the time is true. Charlene Smith grew up on a ranch I believe. I would be interested in any info about the ranches, where they were, what political families were living on them, what crimes happened near them.

Here is another pic of a place I find interesting in its similarity to gsk crimes. It is where the Mcstay family disappeared. The neaigborhood had been experiencing burglaries beforehand and the neighbor installed a security camera. The Rancho area is where Reagan and his friends were buying and selling. And the San Marcos area experienced strong growth as well. How did they get all the water needed to move all those people out there?

Albion, I'm happy to tell you what little I know. As to water, I'm sure you know S. California. is pretty dry. The LA Basin is essentially desert, and the whole sordid story of where they got their water is best known from the movie Chinatown. It was siphoned off from the Colorado river. That's a long trip to water all those avocados and fill all those jacuzzis! Santa Barbara has significant groundwater, but that's dependent on climate and there is a system of dams and lakes above Santa Barbara, I think mostly in the Santa Ynez  valley. Lake Cachuma is one, there is the Gibraltar dam, and one called Jamison or Jamestown or something like that. My memory fails me. I think they've also fairly recently begun desalinization programs from Pacific Ocean water, but I think that's a back up plan. I know they have some deal with the state to buy water, and where that comes from is anybody's guess. Probably Canada or Antarctica. ( just kidding, but nothing would surprise me.). Limited as my knowledge of the water supply is, my info about the ranches is even sketchier. I know the early Spanish settlers were given land grants by the Mexican governor and huge tracts of lands were handed down for generations, mostly as cattle land. I doubt many of the original families still own any of those grants, but what do I know? ( not much, apparently.). In recent times, meaning the last 100 or so years, some wealthy families, although not necessarily the original ones, still hung on to big chunks. ( actually, the original inhabitants were the Chumash Indians but I doubt they were consulted.). As you know, Reagan owned Rancho Del Cielo, and Michael Jackson bought Neverland Ranch. I don't know what has happened with Jackson's property, but some political group bought Reagan's. Like a lot of things, large areas of land in California have been bought up by corporations. The ranch I mentioned in a previous post was owned by a very wealthy businessman. I'll send you the name privately. The Santa Ynez valley was still agricultural when I was growing up. Lots of horse farms, alfalfa fields and scrub oak. Beautiful. I remember going swimming with family friends to a small lake created by a dam up there, but the details escape me. Hope some of this was of value to you. Agatha aka EZRAEDA ( it's a long story, but I answer to either).

[vangogh]

456th Parachute Field Artillery?

www.ww2-airborne.us/units/456_honor.html

[vanillagorilla]

Apr 20, 2015 20:39:26 GMT vangogh said:

456th Parachute Field Artillery?

www.ww2-airborne.us/units/456_honor.html

Good hunting. I see that Albion likes this, maybe he can dig something up.

[albion]

Apr 21, 2015 6:32:29 GMT vanillagorilla said:

Apr 20, 2015 20:39:26 GMT vangogh said:

456th Parachute Field Artillery?

www.ww2-airborne.us/units/456_honor.html

Good hunting. I see that Albion likes this, maybe he can dig something up.

Pic 1.

Another patch.

Pic 2.

Balloon and parachute recovery. Wasn't the Santa Barbara Research Institute working on something similar to the mylar material these balloons were made of? I think H/H worked there.

Pic 3.

A major testing area for the parachutes. Also close to Rohr and Ryan industries.  Pt Mugu and China Lake were also major testing areas.

[albion]

1st Battalion - 144th Field Artillery Regiment

"The unit was reorganized and Federally recognized on 17 December 1946 with Headquarters at Santa Barbara. It was ordered into active Federal service 1 September 1950 home stations (981st Field Artillery Battalion [NGUS] organized and was Federally recognized on 2 September 1952 with Headquarters at Santa Barbara).

The unit was released on 30 June 1954 from active Federal service and reverted to state control; Federal recognition was concurrently withdrawn from the 981st Field Artillery Battalion (NGUS). It reorganized and was redesignated on 1 July 1954 as the 225th Armored Field Artillery Battalion, an element of the 40th Armored Division.

The unit consolidated on 1 July 1959 with the 143rd (constituted on 5 August 1946 in the California National Guard as the 143rd Field Artillery Battalion and assigned to the 40th Infantry Division), 214th (constituted on 5 August 1946 in the California National Guard as the 625th Field Artillery Battalion and assigned to the 40th Infantry Division), and 215th (constituted on 5 August 1946 in the California National Guard as the 980th Field Artillery Battalion and assigned to the 40th Infantry Division) Armored Field Artillery Battalions.

The consolidated unit was reorganized and redesignated as the 144th Artillery, a parent regiment under the Combat Arms Regimental System, to consist of the 1st Rocket Howitzer Battalion and the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th Howitzer Battalions, elements of the 40th Armored Division.

The unit was reorganized on 1 March 1963 to consist of the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th Battalions, elements of the 40th Armored Division. It was reorganized on 29 January 1968 to consist of the 1st Battalion, an element of the 40th Armored Brigade; the 2nd Battalion; and the 3rd Battalion, an element of the 40th Infantry Brigade. It was redesignated 1 May 1972 as the 144th Field Artillery.

The unit was reorganized on 13 January 1974 to consist of the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd Battalions, elements of the 40th Infantry Division; and on 1 December 1976 to consist of the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd Battalions and Battery F, elements of the 40th Infantry Division. It was withdrawn on 19 January 1988 from the Combat Arms Regimental System and reorganized under the United States Army Regimental System (the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd Battalions were ordered into active Federal service on 1 May 1992 at home stations; and released on 9 May 1992 from active Federal service and reverted to state control). "

[albion]

www.calguard.ca.gov/1-143fa

"Deeds, Not Words"

Providing Indirect Fires for the 79th IBCT
1st Battalion, 143d Field Artillery Regiment - On Time. On Target

Come join the only light artillery battalion in the California National Guard. We have various positions available from artillerymen and radar operators to mechanics, truck drivers, and cooks.

The 1-143 Field Artillery Battalion, with unit locations throughout Central and Northern California, employs sixteen M119A2 Howitzers in direct support of the 40th Infantry Brigade Combat Team. The M119A2 is a 105mm towed howitzer that can be dropped by parachute or airlifted with its basic load of ammunition by UH60 Blackhawk and CH47 Chinook helicopters or C130 aircraft. The howitzers are supported by various other systems in the battalion including the AN/TPQ-36 Firefinder Radar and the Advanced Field Artillery Tactical Data System (AFATDS)

[albion]

During the Cold War the Field Artillery was responsible for all mobile ballistic missile weapons systems, including the Lance and Pershing

II ballistic missiles.

Notable redlegs[edit]
Edwin Meese, 75th United States Attorney General
Berry Gordy, founder of Motown Record Corp.[4]
Raymond T. Odierno, 38th Chief of Staff of the United States Army
John Shalikashvili, 13th Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
Harry S. Truman, 33rd President of the United States
Andrew Howard Brannan, a lieutenant during the Vietnam War

""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
From 1977 to 1981, Meese was a professor of Law at the University of San Diego, where he also was Director of the Center for Criminal

Justice Policy and Management.

In addition to his background as a lawyer, educator and public official, Meese has been a business executive in the aerospace and transportation industry, serving as Vice President for Administration of Rohr Industries, Inc. in Chula Vista, California. He left Rohr to return to the practice of law, engaging in corporate and general legal work in San Diego County.

Meese is a graduate of Yale University, Class of 1953, and holds a law degree from the University of California at Berkeley. He is a retired Colonel in the United States Army Reserve. He is active in numerous civic and educational organizations and currently serves on the boards of the Landmark Legal Foundation, the Capital Research Center, and the National College of District Attorneys, and is the
Chairman of the governing board of George Mason University in Northern Virginia.

Meese is married, has two grown children, and resides in McLean, Virginia.

"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
Wherever Artillerymen gather, they will sooner or later be addressed by the sobriquet "Redleg." The question often arises as to the origin of the term. In spite of many fanciful stories, the truth may be found firmly planted in Army regulations.

The uniform is a vehicle through which the soldier is separated from the common man and bound to his fel­low soldiers. Early uniforms served to distinguish sol­diers from civilians and as a means of identifying troops from one's own unit or army. Early use of color in uniforms was based on territorial allegiance, loyalty to one's superiors or simply availability. By early 19th Century, each branch of the United States Army was assigned a branch or "facing" color; for the Artillery, this color was scarlet.

Branch-colored trouser stripes continued to be worn on the dress and full-dress uniforms, but the khaki-colored field uniform was, by regulation "without stripe, welt or cord" for all ranks. The 1902-pattern uniform continued to be worn until the outbreak of World War I when the contingencies of war caused the uniform to lose the last vestiges of its original brilliance. This som­ber change was to last until 1924 and the publication of AR 600-35, which once again authorized branch-colored stripes on the dress and full-dress uniforms for officers. One blue uniform was authorized for enlisted men with noncommissioned officers and musicians al­lowed a "stripe of the color of the arm of service."

In the 1940s, as in World War I, once again the uni­form lost most of its color due to wartime emergency. The new regulation, AR 600-200, provided the Army with a dress uniform, unfortunately for Artillerymen, with the yellow stripe for all ranks. Today little remains of the brightly colored uniforms of Buena Vista, Bull Run, the Little Big Horn or San Juan Hill; except for formal attire, the black stripe on officers' green uniform trousers and the term "Redleg."

[albion]

I am posting these as more examples of a field artillery units symbolism and colors. This first one, from Santa Clara, seems to make use of the same colors as the decal. The second, from Los Angeles, seems similar too. Although the yellow looks a little green, or the green looks a little yellow.

So I submit that the decal could be a special unit or project within the CA National Guard. IIRC, the El Camino was a newer model, so the decal would then have to be for an ongoing project occurring during that time. The driver must have assumed that the MP's would recognize its validity if that was all they had as ID to gain admittance to the base. Being that they were questioned, I would think that they weren't regular visitors to this base. But I think a missile artillery unit would have a reason to have gone to the North Island base. And that somewhere in CA, they called another base home. Pt. Mugu, China Lake, El Centro all seem to be worthy possibilities.  

"Symbolism: Red and yellow are used for Artillery. The pale is symbolic of strength and in combination with the green pallet represents the agricultural productiveness, wealth and sunshine of the Santa Clara Valley in which the battalion was located.

  Motto: Direct Support

  Date Approved: 1 August 1952"

"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""

"625th Field Artillery Battalion

Symbolism: Red and yellow are used for Artillery. The three points are used to represent mountains and, against a golden sky, allude to the "Golden West". Historically they also refer to Spanish, Mexican and American sovereignty of California, and in a military sense may be considered as representing aggressiveness in attack. The wings were suggested by the coat of arms of Los Angeles, the home area of the battalion. The narrow blue bar at the top is used for combat service in Korea Motto: EN CAMINO (On The Way) "

[bob]

Per the decal thread about Northrop's missile: Northrop (or Northrop Grumman) had a program called BAT. It was a parachute missile to destroy a tank. Research was done at Northrop around the LA area in the mid 80s. Testing was done in Nevada. The BAT research-development project was originally secret (no patches or decals allowed).

BAT might stand for "Ballistic-Anti-Tank." -I don't know. Someone recently told me it's supposed to be 'Brilliant Air Technology.'

The project would have started before 86, but no idea when. 

So I was wondering if there were programs around White Sands or Dreamland (both someplace in Nevada, but I don't know where) that had missiles under parachutes. (Because that is where people go to drop test-bombs.) And if those might have had patches, decals, or bling?

[portofleith]

Recall also that extensive missile testing was being done at Vandenburg AFB near Goleta through 1983 and that Operation Global Shield was launched there in July 1979.  A missile was in fact launched from Hueneme around the time of the Smith murders in Ventura.

I contacted a military patch expert about the car decal and here was his response.


"I'm sorry to say that I've never seen this emblem before, and I've been poring over military insignia for many decades. My opinion is that it has sort of an army "look" to it, mostly because of the shape and colors, although some USAF units have had similarly shaped emblems. The Army, Air Force, and Navy did use parachutes on some early missiles during the testing phases of the programs, so that the vehicles could be recovered and reused for subsequent tests, but I've never seen any emblem (decal or patch) associated with those weapon systems that contained a parachute, nor do the letters on the decal correspond to any of the programs or bases where that testing took place. If, in fact, the object hanging from the parachute is intended to represent a rocket rather than an aircraft or bomb, my guess is that the decal is actually from a private model rocketry club because some model rockets are brought safely back to the ground with a parachute. I wish I could have been more help, but I'm afraid you've reached a dead end on the avenue where I live. Good luck in your continued quest. Sincerely(retired air force colonel patch expert)"

[bob]

www.holloman.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123158514   Firebees photo.

Tap the pic on that page. Number 2 has rocket hanging from it. It looks a lot like the red/white/green (or maybe faded blue) ear/ons decal.

It's from the Firebees - an organization around Sac in the 70s. The Firebees possibility has been pursued before, but I haven't seen it linked with an actual photo of the Firebees hanging missile/rocket/thingie. 
And the photo does look like the decal. The silhouette is the same as the ear/ons drawing, which indicates the same type of rocket. 

"AFC" might stand for 'Advanced Flight Control.'

Small work teams might have their own patches made (official or maybe not). So a local decal shop at the time might remember creating this or ordering it from a national patch/sticker maker. It would be original art in an ancient file that was likely thrown away - unless they keep a copy of each decal made. 

Also, someone mentioned missile launches at Vandenberg. I don't think those are related. Vandenberg was/is a missile test base. They launch missiles toward Kwajalein (spelling?) Island. The missiles go straight into the drink. I don't think they do recovery on Vandenberg missile flight tests. The ones that look like they're going to miss the ocean get blown up. In the 70s they launched Titans, Minutemen, I don't remember what else, but the silhouettes lacked forward fins. 

The decal (and Firebees photo) looks like a rocket. So as Portofleith mentions above, this is could be a recovery parachute (As opposed to a guidance or stabilizing parachute). 

[Deleted]

Aug 5, 2015 22:33:41 GMT bob said:

www.holloman.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123158514   Firebees photo.

Tap the pic on that page. Number 2 has rocket hanging from it. It looks a lot like the red/white/green (or maybe faded blue) ear/ons decal.

It's from the Firebees - an organization around Sac in the 70s. The Firebees possibility has been pursued before, but I haven't seen it linked with an actual photo of the Firebees hanging missile/rocket/thingie. 
And the photo does look like the decal. The silhouette is the same as the ear/ons drawing, which indicates the same type of rocket. 

"AFC" might stand for 'Advanced Flight Control.'

Small work teams might have their own patches made (official or maybe not). So a local decal shop at the time might remember creating this or ordering it from a national patch/sticker maker. It would be original art in an ancient file that was likely thrown away - unless they keep a copy of each decal made. 

Also, someone mentioned missile launches at Vandenberg. I don't think those are related. Vandenberg was/is a missile test base. They launch missiles toward Kwajalein (spelling?) Island. The missiles go straight into the drink. I don't think they do recovery on Vandenberg missile flight tests. The ones that look like they're going to miss the ocean get blown up. In the 70s they launched Titans, Minutemen, I don't remember what else, but the silhouettes lacked forward fins. 

The decal (and Firebees photo) looks like a rocket. So as Portofleith mentions above, this is could be a recovery parachute (As opposed to a guidance or stabilizing parachute). 

Check gskonstracker's posts about the decal. She did research the firebee angle and I'm pretty sure posted some videos of firebees with the parachutes.

There's also the chance that the drawing of the decal isn't exactly how it was. Kind of like sketches of people.

[portofleith]

Aug 5, 2015 21:50:13 GMT portofleith said:

Recall also that extensive missile testing was being done at Vandenburg AFB near Goleta through 1983 and that Operation Global Shield was launched there in July 1979.  A missile was in fact launched from Hueneme around the time of the Smith murders in Ventura.

I contacted a military patch expert about the car decal and here was his response.


"I'm sorry to say that I've never seen this emblem before, and I've been poring over military insignia for many decades. My opinion is that it has sort of an army "look" to it, mostly because of the shape and colors, although some USAF units have had similarly shaped emblems. The Army, Air Force, and Navy did use parachutes on some early missiles during the testing phases of the programs, so that the vehicles could be recovered and reused for subsequent tests, but I've never seen any emblem (decal or patch) associated with those weapon systems that contained a parachute, nor do the letters on the decal correspond to any of the programs or bases where that testing took place. If, in fact, the object hanging from the parachute is intended to represent a rocket rather than an aircraft or bomb, my guess is that the decal is actually from a private model rocketry club because some model rockets are brought safely back to the ground with a parachute. I wish I could have been more help, but I'm afraid you've reached a dead end on the avenue where I live. Good luck in your continued quest. Sincerely(retired air force colonel patch expert)"

Perhaps our military expert is correct and the decal belonged to a member of the model rocket club in Sacramento.  Note the parachute in the model and compare to the drawing by witnesses.

[Drifter]

Those club decals are about as close as we have ever come to a match.

Congrats, port.

Doesn't prove the source, but it sure is close.

... model rocket club ...

D.