Question about supposed MO points held back by LE

[rkz]

It's been established that "LE" (I'll get to why it's in quotes in a minute) held back certain points in EAR's MO so that they could make an identification of the actual perp in these crimes.

However, I have long wondered a few things:

- Did Sac and CCC investigators hold back info about EAR's MO points as part of an agreement? How did the varying and disparate counties coordinate this withholding of info when we know now that back in the 1970s that neighboring LE agencies often didn't talk to one another? Was the withholding of certain pieces of info about the EAR series arranged ahead of time in case other surrounding areas started exhibiting EAR-like activity?

- We know that Sac and other LE agencies up in Northern California held back a couple of EAR's MO points when he was attacking in that area. So info was withheld from the public DURING the EAR series. But the ONS crimes weren't connected to the EAR crimes until the 2000s. So, when the ONS was active, evidently the attacker's MO points were released to the public, no? So no one in Goleta, Irvine, or anywhere else in SoCal that ONS attacked, no one down there would have known that NorCal was holding back info about this attacker's MO points, because no one had connected the two offenders yet.


So I guess my question is this: in the release of info about the ONS attacks, is it possible that the EAR's withheld MO point(s) were revealed accidentally by authorities in SoCal? If there were specific MO points unique to EAR that were present at the ONS attacks, then no one down south would have known to hold back that info from the public. Therefore, there is a chance that authorities in Goleta, Irvine, etc. released info about EAR's held back MO points, because the flow of info wasn't being controlled, since neither norCal or SoCal had connected the two series.

We take it as a given that "LE" held back info about EAR/ONS's MO points, but if "LE" includes two far-flung jurisdictions who didn't communicate with one another, and are dealing with the same perp, then which "LE" is the current authority holding back info on those missing MO points? Are we sure that "LE" from both Northern and Southern CA have held back THE SAME MO points?

Am I wrong about any of the above? Please let me know if I am.

I ask this because I'm wondering is it's possible that the held back MO point is that the male victims in the EAR series were made to undress at the scenes of the crimes - because the male victims in the ONS series were found nude, while there is no info available about whether the male victims in the EAR series were found nude or clothed. Could that info have been held back by authorities in NorCal, but, because the two series hadn't been connected, authorities on SoCal saw no reason not to report that info to the public? Just speculating, obviously, but if anyone knows anything about this that could shed more light on this situation it would be appreciated.

[cantstandya]

I agree with you on this. I suspect that any information kept back from the EAR series was eventually revealed later. I don't think there remain any hidden MO details, but who knows

[rkz]

Jun 2, 2018 21:06:30 GMT cantstandya said:

I agree with you on this. I suspect that any information kept back from the EAR series was eventually revealed later. I don't think there remain any hidden MO details, but who knows

I should have included some kind of question about whether JJD's capture proves that there might not be anything left to hold back.

[richardr]

I suspect that it's more a case of LE having withheld some MO info. during the most active part of the investigations (up to 1980 for EAR, to 1988 for ONS). Subsequently, details trickled out over the next 30 years, via all kinds of sources, to the point where the old 'withholding details' has long since been rendered moot.

[thordis]

I am trying to post a quote from CBK from a thread titled "11-30-1974" that currently starts with a post by winters.

It is interesting in that there has been speculation about an unreleased M.O. (perhaps better described differently than M.O.) where the EAR defecates in an especially offensive way in victims' homes.

The quote from CBK below, in the third line, mentions just such a thing.



Sept 23, 2017 2:29:37 GMT -4 cbk said:

On this Sa*ay in November 1974 the Visalia Ransacker commits 11 "Ransackings" and wondering how the hell is this possible.

Back in those days people were home more on Sa*ays, at least someone was.

Could some of these ransackings reported to police be someone just breaking into a garage, dumping over some paint, *ing in the corner and leaving, how much time could he have spent in the home?

These crimes were clustered with more than one on a street, it seems like he was just walking around looking for cars that were not in the driveway or knocking on the doors and getting no answer then breaking in.

Most of the crimes were on Sa*ay and the weekend which seems more like a juvenile who has the time off.

[Deleted]

somebody mentioned he would turn on a loud kitchen fan when he left (so the victims could not hear him exit) thereby buying more time for escape.

[ellebee]

Jun 3, 2018 6:33:02 GMT thordis said:

I am trying to post a quote from CBK from a thread titled "11-30-1974" that currently starts with a post by winters.

It is interesting in that there has been speculation about an unreleased M.O. (perhaps better described differently than M.O.) where the EAR defecates in an especially offensive way in victims' homes.

The quote from CBK below, in the third line, mentions just such a thing.



Sept 23, 2017 2:29:37 GMT -4 cbk said:

On this Sa*ay in November 1974 the Visalia Ransacker commits 11 "Ransackings" and wondering how the hell is this possible.

Back in those days people were home more on Sa*ays, at least someone was.

Could some of these ransackings reported to police be someone just breaking into a garage, dumping over some paint, *ing in the corner and leaving, how much time could he have spent in the home?

These crimes were clustered with more than one on a street, it seems like he was just walking around looking for cars that were not in the driveway or knocking on the doors and getting no answer then breaking in.

Most of the crimes were on Sa*ay and the weekend which seems more like a juvenile who has the time off.

I have read this, too, but I have not seen a reliable source for it.  This seems like one of those speculations that is taking on a life of its own and starting to be passed along as factual without any real evidence.  I will be surprised if we find out this is something he did.  CBKs post sounds to me to be describing something a homeless person might be expected to do; he's saying maybe not all of the "ransackings" were actually the ransacker.   

[jackydee]

Jun 3, 2018 7:06:55 GMT saund10295 said:

somebody mentioned he would turn on a loud kitchen fan when he left (so the victims could not hear him exit) thereby buying more time for escape.

And leave faucets(sp) running. Of course this wouldn't be required during his ONS phase.

[Deleted]

Jun 3, 2018 7:13:22 GMT jackydee said:

Jun 3, 2018 7:06:55 GMT saund10295 said:

somebody mentioned he would turn on a loud kitchen fan when he left (so the victims could not hear him exit) thereby buying more time for escape.

And leave faucets(sp) running. Of course this wouldn't be required during his ONS phase.

And would be very important with two victims since they could untie each other quickly. Regardless whether he cut the phone line, he knew they would certainly run to a neighbor's straight away. I think the bicycles suggest he very rarely parked nearby. so this fan/faucet trick would have been a very good option for DeAngelo. Thank heavens for DNA ... he was just too cerebral (in a criminal way) to get caught conventionally.

[RacerX]

Jun 2, 2018 15:54:27 GMT rkz said:

I ask this because I'm wondering is it's possible that the held back MO point is that the male victims in the EAR series were made to undress at the scenes of the crimes - because the male victims in the ONS series were found nude, while there is no info available about whether the male victims in the EAR series were found nude or clothed. Could that info have been held back by authorities in NorCal, but, because the two series hadn't been connected, authorities on SoCal saw no reason not to report that info to the public? Just speculating, obviously, but if anyone knows anything about this that could shed more light on this situation it would be appreciated.

The A&E Cold Case Files episode about the ONS also focused on the male in the ONS attacks being in bed (and already murdered?) with the female victims as they were raped, which also seems like a specific MO point not released from the EAR attacks when he’d, I believe,  rape the women in a separate room from the men.  I suspect the post about GSK defecating in homes as the VR may be tied to the interestingly nasty point in the recently unsealed warrants noting that one woman found drawings on her window made using “bodily fluids.” I would not be surprised to learn GSK used his faeces as but one more way to degrade and offend his victims.

[brokenbiscuit]

Jun 3, 2018 17:33:00 GMT RacerX said:

Jun 2, 2018 15:54:27 GMT rkz said:

I ask this because I'm wondering is it's possible that the held back MO point is that the male victims in the EAR series were made to undress at the scenes of the crimes - because the male victims in the ONS series were found nude, while there is no info available about whether the male victims in the EAR series were found nude or clothed. Could that info have been held back by authorities in NorCal, but, because the two series hadn't been connected, authorities on SoCal saw no reason not to report that info to the public? Just speculating, obviously, but if anyone knows anything about this that could shed more light on this situation it would be appreciated.

The A&E Cold Case Files episode about the ONS also focused on the male in the ONS attacks being in bed (and already murdered?) with the female victims as they were raped, which also seems like a specific MO point not released from the EAR attacks when he’d, I believe,  rape the women in a separate room from the men.  I suspect the post about GSK defecating in homes as the VR may be tied to the interestingly nasty point in the recently unsealed warrants noting that one woman found drawings on her window made using “bodily fluids.” I would not be surprised to learn GSK used his faeces as but one more way to degrade and offend his victims.Interesting point about the bodily fluids, as for both partners being found in the bed during the ONS attacks, it does seem like the man was killed before the woman was raped, but at least in the Smith murders, it is speculated that he may have taken Charlene into a spare bedroom and assaulted her before taking her back into the master bedroom and ending her life. So I'm not sure if this was consistent enough to be considered a hidden MO.

[niktun]

Didn't one of the detectives say that he knew (and warned?) Contra Costa detectives that EAR was coming to their area next? If so, he likely divulged to them the points of the MO they kept from the public in exchange for them also not divulging the same info.

It likely is something, IMO, that wouldn't necessarily apply when the victims were murdered. Like the aforementioned leaving the kitchen fan on or something he would say that we clearly wouldn't know if the victims were murdered.

[f1guyus]

Here’s what I think the holdback is. EAR wanted to be the man of the house. Literally. Bonnie broke off their engagement and married someone of higher status and better earning potential. So he had to make that be the case with his victims. That he was the big deal, I’ll bet he either forced orgasms or made his victims fake them. That like making victims perform oral sex would be something pretty much nobody would want to talk about. And I’ll bet he told the male companion as well. Don’t misinterpret, Bonnie wasn’t the cause of his attacks, she was an excuse he used for elements of same. EAR was EAR a long time before he got to Visalia. Or Sacramento. Now I’m done typing for a while.

[f1guyus]

Hunch

[gaaron]

Some of these speculations seem preposterous.