Why Was It Hard To Believe EAR+VR=COP?

[Deleted]

Jun 20, 2018 5:16:48 GMT cleopatra said:

Jun 20, 2018 2:39:32 GMT Any of N said:

If someone had PM'd me, say, about a year ago, and written about a cop working in Exeter and Auburn at the right times...

I would have said he's probably not our guy, but keep looking at him. If for nothing else, do it for the sake of due diligence. And yeah, submit this guy to the tip line, but I bet he's been looked at already. Keep me posted, though! You're right about the resemblance to the one VR sketch.

The vast majority of the posters here would have responded at least that positively. My impression, anyway.

Once upon a time there was a strong contingent of posters here who pushed back hard whenever LE was criticized. Among other opinions, they tended not to think our guy was a cop. Later on, after that group sort-of disbanded and this place became more LE-critical, most of the remaining posters... tended not to think the EAR-ONS was a cop. Yet the idea received plenty of play and respect.

The reason why the theory wasn't more popular is because there were always good reasons against it. Let's not get caught up in a bad case of hindsight bias. I mean, come on, cleopatra . The occasional blue piece of clothing?

AnyOfN, I happen to have a goo eye for the most minute details when it comes to something of interest to me. It comes from being an artist. I had even noticed in the first year of attacks the intervals between the 1st day of a string of attacks to the 1st day of the next string were exactly 30-31 days, like a menstrual cycle.

As I said, HAD Detective Trabuco pointed out his observations to me back then, of details of the attacker that he noticed were similar to that of cops, I'd have combed through all the reports and statements on the case and looked to see if were there were other details that might pount to a cop. That's all.

If someone from this board PMd me about an Auburn cop who got fired for stealing dog repellant in July 1979, I'd definitely had been all over that cop. I would have turned up info on him, inside up, upside down, etc. I would have nailed the EAR. I would have collected all the rewardsout there for his capture and handed it over to the victims to share.

I know Nick and Claudius would have been all over that cop, too. They were already looking at Ex-officer ZYX for his sketchy background- stalking. And Nick was already digging around Folsom.

I got the military part right and there's still another shoe (or ten) to drop.

[trabuco]

Jun 20, 2018 5:16:48 GMT cleopatra said:

Jun 20, 2018 2:39:32 GMT Any of N said:

If someone had PM'd me, say, about a year ago, and written about a cop working in Exeter and Auburn at the right times...

I would have said he's probably not our guy, but keep looking at him. If for nothing else, do it for the sake of due diligence. And yeah, submit this guy to the tip line, but I bet he's been looked at already. Keep me posted, though! You're right about the resemblance to the one VR sketch.

The vast majority of the posters here would have responded at least that positively. My impression, anyway.

Once upon a time there was a strong contingent of posters here who pushed back hard whenever LE was criticized. Among other opinions, they tended not to think our guy was a cop. Later on, after that group sort-of disbanded and this place became more LE-critical, most of the remaining posters... tended not to think the EAR-ONS was a cop. Yet the idea received plenty of play and respect.

The reason why the theory wasn't more popular is because there were always good reasons against it. Let's not get caught up in a bad case of hindsight bias. I mean, come on, cleopatra . The occasional blue piece of clothing?

AnyOfN, I happen to have a goo eye for the most minute details when it comes to something of interest to me. It comes from being an artist. I had even noticed in the first year of attacks the intervals between the 1st day of a string of attacks to the 1st day of the next string were exactly 30-31 days, like a menstrual cycle.

As I said, HAD Detective Trabuco pointed out his observations to me back then, of details of the attacker that he noticed were similar to that of cops, I'd have combed through all the reports and statements on the case and looked to see if were there were other details that might pount to a cop. That's all.

If someone from this board PMd me about an Auburn cop who got fired for stealing dog repellant in July 1979, I'd definitely had been all over that cop. I would have turned up info on him, inside up, upside down, etc. I would have nailed the EAR. I would have collected all the rewardsout there for his capture and handed it over to the victims to share.

I know Nick and Claudius would have been all over that cop, too. They were already looking at Ex-officer ZYX for his sketchy background- stalking. And Nick was already digging around Folsom.

For the record, I am not a detective. I am just a normal citizen who would rather make a living doing something

other than what I do.  I felt I had been given to and I wanted to give back. I would give it freely but couldn't allow it

to go unused.

I joined this board in March 2015 and I read everything I could about the EARONS except any books. I still have not read a book about the EARONS.  I read the threads on this board and I read all of what Questerfiles.com had to say about each attack. In April 2015 I created the thread 'Was the EAR a Cop?'

I had asked for you to add to my list if you could think of anything else that would suggest the EAR was a cop.

I don't recall seeing anymore suggestions until after he was captured.  Then I started to see some suggestions that I

had not thought of.

I recall asking a question once: Had any Sac LE been fired in the weeks or months before the first EAR attack?

I never got a reply. But even that question would not have pointed to the EAR since he was not Sac LE but Auburn LE.

But all in all, what I was attempting to do on this board is to ask the right person the right question. But that soon changed

to just asking the right question or questions. As you know, on this board you never really know who you are talking to.

As you know, I was very critical of detective Shelby because I knew he had been in all of the places the EAR had been and he had been there before his co-workers admittedly. Shelby said he liked to go out and predict where the EAR would strike next while the other detectives worked the rape attack from the night before. I was thinking "Opportunity."

I figured the EAR was the lone wolf type. He would go it alone. I knew from victims reports that the EAR was proficient with a firearm. From the same reports, that the EAR was one who gave orders. He was good at controlling his victims. He had knowledge of crime scene investigation. I began to see the EAR as a cop.

[cleopatra]

Trabuco, you're pretty sharp. I wish I knew about that thread. By the time I joined this board it was so bombarded with threads and info that I just dove in without starting from the very beginning. There was just so much.

One night my husband was going through my EAR stuff and when he was done he said, that A-ho*e sounds like he's a cop. If he is one, and I think he is, he doesn't work in any Sac PD. When I asked why not he said because he knew his colleague might pick up on the dates of attacks correlating with his days off. There was too much news on the attacks for cops around Sac to not start wondering about a co-worker always being out at the same time. The guy probably works for a PD in a neighboring city or county that's not a big city. They should have alerted all the PDs of each crime date and to see if any of their officers were out on the same days. And asked if any of their cops had chronic absences or were ever AWOL then to start checking on their schedules first. The guy had to miss days of work with that much activity.

I then told him to move over because I wanted to finish working on my Alpha Beta theory. And he said, sure, sure. 😏

[crabtree]

Jun 19, 2018 4:18:59 GMT cleopatra said:

Femto, I bet that's exactly how Sac LE thought back then!

Per Shelby's book, Sac LE "back then" really suspected that EAR was a cop.

[trabuco]

I agree. The board had a tendency to pull you in different directions. As you read others thoughts and reason. Then you have to just try to crawl up inside his head and see what he is seeing from what you know he had done. I recall thinking he was a Game Warden or Fish and Wildlife officer in the very beginning because of thinking he worked alone but he also was a trained LE officer. The creeks, canals and his M/O of coming up from behind the houses he attacked. His knowledge and use of the San Jose Creek.

I recently watched a show, I believe it was on Netflix or Hulu. It was called 'The Seven Five.' Helps you understand police officers point of view. The most crooked cop will be the first one to have your back when you need it. Other officers want that guy on the job. Cops trust cops. You are willing to overlook some things if it supports your own survival on the streets. I can certainly understand how JJD got away with it for as long as he did. I'm not saying it's right or wrong. Just sayin.

[trabuco]

Jun 20, 2018 8:21:39 GMT cleopatra said:

Trabuco, you're pretty sharp. I wish I knew about that thread. By the time I joined this board it was so bombarded with threads and info that I just dove in without starting from the very beginning. There was just so much.

One night my husband was going through my EAR stuff and when he was done he said, that A-ho*e sounds like he's a cop. If he is one, and I think he is, he doesn't work in any Sac PD. When I asked why not he said because he knew his colleague might pick up on the dates of attacks correlating with his days off. There was too much news on the attacks for cops around Sac to not start wondering about a co-worker always being out at the same time. The guy probably works for a PD in a neighboring city or county that's not a big city. They should have alerted all the PDs of each crime date and to see if any of their officers were out on the same days. And asked if any of their cops had chronic absences or were ever AWOL then to start checking on their schedules first. The guy had to miss days of work with that much activity.

I then told him to move over because I wanted to finish working on my Alpha Beta theory. And he said, sure, sure. 😏

Thanks for the compliment Cleopatra. There are many sharp minds on this board. In their own way. Including yourself.

[mark]

The majority of the posts in this thread are compelling, and interesting in the way they reconstruct the clues and some aspects of the investigation, both pointing to EAR being a cop or not.

What really bothers me are the posts trying to discredit the other way of thinking, as in "it was obvious he was a cop". It was not. Not not not. Some reasons for this have been told here again. Even Morf thought EAR could not have a real job. So did I. We were wrong. But, this way of thinking was as correct as the other one, or ones.
So, anybody who thinks this was the only possible outcome is just delusional. The enormous set of clues and leads had many other possible explanations. Crabtree and Femto were very precise in their answer.

That being said, kudos to everybody who was able to sort through all this and get it right, really - Trabuco in the first place.

[rkz]

Jun 20, 2018 22:12:51 GMT mark said:

The majority of the posts in this thread are compelling, and interesting in the way they reconstruct the clues and some aspects of the investigation, both pointing to EAR being a cop or not.

What really bothers me are the posts trying to discredit the other way of thinking, as in "it was obvious he was a cop". It was not. Not not not. Some reasons for this have been told here again. Even Morf thought EAR could not have a real job. So did I. We were wrong. But, this way of thinking was as correct as the other one, or ones.
So, anybody who thinks this was the only possible outcome is just delusional. The enormous set of clues and leads had many other possible explanations. Crabtree and Femto were very precise in their answer.

That being said, kudos to everybody who was able to sort through all this and get it right, really - Trabuco in the first place.

I recall that one of my first thoughts after hearing that he was arrested was, "But what about the construction angle?" Because there were so many smart and compelling posts about the possibility of EAR working in construction right before JJD was apprehended. I wondered for a few days when the news would come out that JJD had been involved in construction after he'd been fired from Auburn. It never did, not really.

But it just goes to show that there could have been MANY other occupations. That so many thought he was in construction before they KNEW he was a cop ought to be telling for those who want to criticize others for thinking he wasn't a cop. Also, like I said above, it's not that none of us could CONCEIVE that EAr was a cop - far from it! There was quite a lot of things about EAR that suggested "cop." It's just that so many authorities on the case has stated multiple times that every cop in the relevant areas had been looked at and dismissed.

If people have a problem with rank-and-file posters on this board saying "He couldn't have been a cop," but DON'T have a problem with Crompton or any other authority on the case saying the same thing, then THAT'S the problem, not the way we were thinking pre-arrest.

[cleopatra]

Jun 20, 2018 22:12:51 GMT mark said:

The majority of the posts in this thread are compelling, and interesting in the way they reconstruct the clues and some aspects of the investigation, both pointing to EAR being a cop or not.

What really bothers me are the posts trying to discredit the other way of thinking, as in "it was obvious he was a cop". It was not. Not not not. Some reasons for this have been told here again. Even Morf thought EAR could not have a real job. So did I. We were wrong. But, this way of thinking was as correct as the other one, or ones.
So, anybody who thinks this was the only possible outcome is just delusional. The enormous set of clues and leads had many other possible explanations. Crabtree and Femto were very precise in their answer.

That being said, kudos to everybody who was able to sort through all this and get it right, really - Trabuco in the first place.

You're right, mark. 

Regarding "enormous set of clues and leads had many other possible explanations",

That's exactly what JJD intended.  Having studied Criminology, JJD knew LE would hang onto every single little detail of every one of his crimes.  Including everything the victims saw and heard, witness statements, police reports following canvasing of immediate areas where attacks occurred, everything/anything found at the crime scenes, words the attacker used, the way the attacker spoke, and he knew LE would make composites of suspicious persons.  JJD knew LE would look for common denominators between each attack, similar places victims went, similar people victims knew.  JJD knew the importance of clues.  He probably threw out the tennis shoes he wore at the crimes after each attack, wore stolen clothes, drove stolen vehicles because if he used borrowed vehicles the person who owned them may hear of its description on the news as being seen near an EAR attack.  In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if JJD slipped into tennis shoes that weren't even his true size.  JJD probably really did toss out those homework pages and map when he drove off.  JJD gave LE a lot  to keep them busy chasing down false leads. 

There was once an argument going on within one of these threads about clues possibly being red herrings.  A lot of posters were thinking different clues were red herrings and at one point someone blurted out, "Not all the clues can be red herrings!!!!"  Now I'm thinking that maybe a lot of them were.

[cleopatra]

Jun 21, 2018 0:56:28 GMT rkz said:

Jun 20, 2018 22:12:51 GMT mark said:

The majority of the posts in this thread are compelling, and interesting in the way they reconstruct the clues and some aspects of the investigation, both pointing to EAR being a cop or not.

What really bothers me are the posts trying to discredit the other way of thinking, as in "it was obvious he was a cop". It was not. Not not not. Some reasons for this have been told here again. Even Morf thought EAR could not have a real job. So did I. We were wrong. But, this way of thinking was as correct as the other one, or ones.
So, anybody who thinks this was the only possible outcome is just delusional. The enormous set of clues and leads had many other possible explanations. Crabtree and Femto were very precise in their answer.

That being said, kudos to everybody who was able to sort through all this and get it right, really - Trabuco in the first place.

I recall that one of my first thoughts after hearing that he was arrested was, "But what about the construction angle?" Because there were so many smart and compelling posts about the possibility of EAR working in construction right before JJD was apprehended. I wondered for a few days when the news would come out that JJD had been involved in construction after he'd been fired from Auburn. It never did, not really.

But it just goes to show that there could have been MANY other occupations. That so many thought he was in construction before they KNEW he was a cop ought to be telling for those who want to criticize others for thinking he wasn't a cop. Also, like I said above, it's not that none of us could CONCEIVE that EAr was a cop - far from it! There was quite a lot of things about EAR that suggested "cop." It's just that so many authorities on the case has stated multiple times that every cop in the relevant areas had been looked at and dismissed.

If people have a problem with rank-and-file posters on this board saying "He couldn't have been a cop," but DON'T have a problem with Crompton or any other authority on the case saying the same thing, then THAT'S the problem, not the way we were thinking pre-arrest.

With Paul Holes and all of us here knowing what we do about the case, specifically about ALL the dogs at the victims homes and in their neighborhoods, and  how the tracking dogs acted atypical after picking up the EAR's scent, and of the numerous reports from victims about their attacker having an unusual, unfamiliar and indescribable bad odor but not being the smell of typical B.O., which by the way was thought by the dog handlers to be due to a disease that that made the EAR's scent cause the dogs to react strangely, it sure must have been a Helen Keller mystery of language moment for Paul Holes when during his interview with JJD's ex-box (the Auburn Police Chief who fired JJD) he was told that JJD got fired for SHOPLIFTING A CAN OF DOG REPELLANT.  Paul Holes knew his 30 year hunt for the holy grail that led him from one good suspect to another had just ended at that the end of the word R-E-P-E-L-L-A-N-T-T-T-T-T-t-T-T-ttt-ttt-TTT-TTT.  His eyeballs must have popped out of its sockets, landed on the floor, bounced a couple of times before bouncing right back up into their sockets!!!!   Man!  I don't know if I could have gotten back to my office fast enough after hearing that if I were Holes.  I'm not even him and I wasn't even there, and I couldn't sleep for days after I found out about the dog repellant. 

[trabuco]

Jun 20, 2018 22:12:51 GMT mark said:

The majority of the posts in this thread are compelling, and interesting in the way they reconstruct the clues and some aspects of the investigation, both pointing to EAR being a cop or not.

What really bothers me are the posts trying to discredit the other way of thinking, as in "it was obvious he was a cop". It was not. Not not not. Some reasons for this have been told here again. Even Morf thought EAR could not have a real job. So did I. We were wrong. But, this way of thinking was as correct as the other one, or ones.
So, anybody who thinks this was the only possible outcome is just delusional. The enormous set of clues and leads had many other possible explanations. Crabtree and Femto were very precise in their answer.

That being said, kudos to everybody who was able to sort through all this and get it right, really - Trabuco in the first place.

Thanks but I too must acknowledge those trailblazers who laid out all of the information for me to read. All of the discussions from the many posters that were here before me. I read Questerfiles.com account of all of the EARONS attacks but later found out that those were taken from Larry Crompton's book 'Sudden Terror' to which I consider the guide that allowed everyone a view into the EARONS' words and actions as they were recounted by the surviving victims.

I would also like to add that the way I saw it the EARONS was someone who had a beef with LE. He was highly motivated to offend again and again. Listening to the original investigators talk about how the EARONS avoided all of their traps. Once, twice, I could see but year after year? This was not some super lucky punk kid. Knowing all along from reading the victims accounts of how proficient he was with a firearm, his ability to evade LE just added more weight to the cop theory.

In the A&E folder there was a poster who had the cop theory. They mentioned other things that solidified the cop theory for me. Like how a cop makes his living by knowing his town or city. No one knows the streets of a town or city like the cops who are employed there. The EARONS made a quick study of the neighborhoods he attacked. He had a natural bend for it but unfortunately the EARONS used his knowledge and training to hurt instead of help which was a belief that was always in my gut.

The cop theory was not my only theory. I had other theories but none stayed with me through the duration like the cop theory did.

I chose to not read any books about the EARONS because I didn't want to over complicate though I know I strayed at times which seems inevitable when considering all of the possibilities which challenge your ability to stay true to your core beliefs and gut instincts.

The opportunity to read your thoughts and converse with you and be a part of this board in the hunt for the EARONS is an experience I shall never forget. In some way I believe everyone was right about something. That is the power of conversation. You can listen to ideas that you would have never thought of on your own.

[cleopatra]

Trabuco, you were right again ….. the dogs knew something..... you said...…

if only Thumper could talk...… and, if only all those neighborhood dogS could have talked..... THEY KNEW SOMETHING....

...…… they wanted to attack the guy but all they could do was bark..... because of that....

DOG REPELLANT!!!!!

Remember the two great danes who went the end of a victim's neighbors backyard, barked then just stared, then turned around and ran back to the house....'

….and the two dogs that were in the same room as the victims and the EAR? The victims said their dogs just stood and stared at the intruder from a distance, and barked but didn't approach him. Another victim said her dog just barked at him but didn't go near him.

We presumed, or at least I did, that the EAR had been feeding the dogs chunks of steak with sedatives.

[cleopatra]

Even if it was the DNA that caught him in the end, this board and all the publicity surrounding the case, did one good thing:

JJD was on edge, I have no doubt. He was reading everything on this board and every were about the case.  Because of this board more than anywhere else, I believe it made him realize NOTHING WAS GOING TO GO AWAY, the search for him would only intensify, as it had been doing over the years. And with Winter's books, Morf's podcast, the Ladies seminars, the "Unmasking The Killer" episodes, Shelly's t-shirts, and everything else this board promoted and publicized continuously, JJD was on HIGH ANXIETY on a daily basis.  I'm confident this board made him miserable.  He knew it was getting to a point where EVERYONE was going to be hunting him down and it was only a matter of time.   

Aside from that, I've learned so much from having joined this board.  It's the only one I've participated in.  I've enjoyed reading everything ever posted by every poster.

I have nothing but utmost respect for all my fellow board members. 

[cleopatra]

Jun 18, 2018 23:35:40 GMT Drifter said:

cleopatra wrote:

Why Was It Hard To Believe EAR+VS=COP?

What exactly is ... "VS"?

D.

typo - VS = VR...

[bronwyn]

Jun 20, 2018 5:36:10 GMT Red909XMZ1 said:

A few of us (Arlington and I, and a couple of others) strongly believed he was an officer. Some of us would even PM each other and discuss it.

I questioned in a thread (before JJD was even considered a suspect) why we did not have DNA submitted from every officer in Sacramento and nearby jurisdictions to determine if an officer was the EAR/ONS. It just seemed ludicrous to me why this was not done! I am still pretty livid about it.

-Red

DNA testing did not exist in 1979. Blood samples were taken from Sac LE to (IIRC) determine secretor status, but that was as far as the technology went at the time. Once DNA testing was developed, JJD was long gone from the PD and would not have been tested. Advances in technology really helped crack this. Wonder what the legal grounds would have been for going back and getting DNA from all former LE in the area. And how far-flung that area would have been. 

As an aside, knowing now how far away he lived from his attacks during the EAR phase, I wonder if if in fact he did not live in Goleta but somewhere just far enough away to prowl but to not quite be 'local'. Like Lompoc, maybe? Just throwing that thought out there. Lompoc is an easy drive, smaller town, etc.