Change In Administration

[oldguy]

Aug 19, 2018 20:35:41 GMT meretrix said:

Aug 19, 2018 13:06:52 GMT oldguy said:

If the fact that a dedicated researcher and author with extensive contacts in the "EARONS Community" has become the moderator is a "bitter pill" for you (your words) you really need to look at yourself.

"BItter pill" were my words, but the claim that my grievance against her is her knowledge about the case is disingenuous (btw...feel free to define this word for fellow spectators). I never said anything to that effect!

I very clearly stated my points of contention:
-She is too heavy-handed with moderation
-The same person controls the discussion in the two biggest venues for the case.

A corollary is that I am unable to voice any controversial opinions about EARONS to a sizeable audience without Winter's approval.

In your mind, I am seemingly opposed to her role as a moderator because of her knowledge and connections. This is what is called a "strawman" argument (please post the definition in your response). Taking my legitimate debate points and twisting them into something frivolous that can be easily rebuked (another million dollar word, please shed some light on the formal definition please).

Aug 19, 2018 13:06:52 GMT oldguy said:

So...the bottom line is...you assert an entitlement to hurt others without consequence. The word is full of people with that mind set.

Yes, I want the ability to offend without consequence. That is the definition of free speech- a concept of which was not architected to protect watercooler banter but instead, heavy-hitting subject matter that can be offensive to some.

The goal is not to offend. However, it may happen from time to time on our journey to dig up the truth.

If they are over age 11 or 12, they are called "immature."

Try to grow up.

This is an excellent example of a personal attack that serves no useful purpose. However, I am not particularly bothered by it and believe you should feel free to dole it out at your discretion (another potentially great vocabulary lesson for spectators if you have the impetus....). I'm a grown-up and don't lose any sleep over it.

At the end of the day , i'm sure you're a perfectly nice guy who is just bothered by my attitude. Whats wrong with that?

Likewise, my poking and prodding at your insistence to define words that i've used- (as if somehow I'm spouting them off without fully understanding their meaning and by dusting off ol' Webster you've intellectually checkmated me)- is highly funny to me and i'm just having a little light hearted fun at your expense.

Sorry about that!

If you could read, you would see the qualifications mentioned for winters were not the subject-the appointment of her was. As you note in your original post. I mentioned her qualifications to speak to her suitability as moderator.

Now, if you mature you will learn that   the right of free speech has nothing to do with a lack of consequence from other people. Free speech as a concept has to do with a lack of consequence from the state. Very big difference.

As time goes by, you may learn that people who have expended great effort, at personal expense, over a long period of time to shed much needed light on human evil (and it's tragic consequences for innocent people) deserve respect.

[meretrix]

Aug 19, 2018 22:16:22 GMT oldguy said:

Now, if you mature you will learn that the right of free speech has nothing to do with a lack of consequence from other people. Free speech as a concept has to do with a lack of consequence from the state. Very big difference.

You are confusing the "1st amendment" with "free speech". The latter is a vague concept that can mean different things to different people. As a Latina woman I do not see everything through the lens of US history.

To be clear I never declared that I have a "RIGHT" to free speech. I just requested it.

So once again you have come up with some rebuttal to arguments i have never made. Your interpretation is that I insist on the right to post without moderation on the grounds of the US 1st amendment.

Aug 19, 2018 22:16:22 GMT oldguy said:

As time goes by, you may learn that people who have expended great effort, at personal expense, over a long period of time to shed much needed light on human evil (and it's tragic consequences for innocent people) deserve respect.

I'm not demanding that Winters be stripped of respect (!?!?).

It is however perplexing that she is moderator everywhere.

With that said I am no longer bothered by it now that I realize Drifter was probably the most draconian in his censorship.

By contrast, Winters attempts at censorship are to grant Red909XMZ1 reprieve from my biting cynicism and attempts at character assassination.

It is mostly fair I guess.

[Red909XMZ1]

Hi Winters,

I just want to thank you for always having such tremendous integrity, amazing restraint, and being such a class act, even in the midst of disharmony and false, ludicrous accusations.

You have the hardest, most painstaking job as a moderator, and are not thanked enough for all of the spectacular work you do on this forum. You are a truly brilliant, amazing woman, who deserves all the best that life has to offer.

We all greatly admire, respect, and care for you, Winters. If you ever need anything, I am here for you. We are so very blessed to have you as a moderator!

Warmest Regards,

Red

[david8]

Aug 19, 2018 22:37:56 GMT meretrix said:

Aug 19, 2018 22:16:22 GMT oldguy said:

Now, if you mature you will learn that the right of free speech has nothing to do with a lack of consequence from other people. Free speech as a concept has to do with a lack of consequence from the state. Very big difference.

You are confusing the "1st amendment" with "free speech". The latter is a vague concept that can mean different things to different people. As a Latina woman I do not see everything through the lens of US history.

To be clear I never declared that I have a "RIGHT" to free speech. I just requested it.

So once again you have come up with some rebuttal to arguments i have never made. Your interpretation is that I insist on the right to post without moderation on the grounds of the US 1st amendment.

Aug 19, 2018 22:16:22 GMT oldguy said:

As time goes by, you may learn that people who have expended great effort, at personal expense, over a long period of time to shed much needed light on human evil (and it's tragic consequences for innocent people) deserve respect.

I'm not demanding that Winters be stripped of respect (!?!?).

It is however perplexing that she is moderator everywhere.

With that said I am no longer bothered by it now that I realize Drifter was probably the most draconian in his censorship.

By contrast, Winters attempts at censorship are to grant Red909XMZ1 reprieve from my biting cynicism and attempts at character assassination.

It is mostly fair I guess.

meretrix, I reckon you hit the nail on the head on all of your posts (short of accusing winters of anything underhanded) and I particularly agree with a few of your posts that were deleted. You are VERY wise. Keep up the good work.

[trabuco]

Thanks Drifter.

[trabuco]

If you ever see or hear from Lepke, tell him I said Hi. He was tough but he made me think about how I communicated. I never forgot his words. Thanks again.

[meretrix]

Aug 21, 2018 14:13:13 GMT trabuco said:

If you ever see or hear from Lepke, tell him I said Hi. He was tough but he made me think about how I communicated. I never forgot his words. Thanks again.

I heard the name before but never read his posts. 

I don't think i'm some kind of agitator- but I can be brutally honest sometimes and that rubs people the wrong way. I guess there has to be a balance- you can't go around broadsiding people all day. 

[meretrix]

Aug 20, 2018 8:21:51 GMT Red909XMZ1 said:

You are a truly brilliant, amazing woman, who deserves all the best that life has to offer.

We all greatly admire, respect, and care for you, Winters. If you ever need anything, I am here for you. 

I could not have said it any better myself! 

[winters]

Aug 21, 2018 20:55:03 GMT meretrix said:

I don't think i'm some kind of agitator- but I can be brutally honest sometimes and that rubs people the wrong way. I guess there has to be a balance- you can't go around broadsiding people all day. 

You nailed it, and it's in the delivery of the message more than the actual content. The rest of the internet is run like a bar fight, and we run this forum more like a PTA meeting

And thank you, Red909XMZ1 and everyone else for the kind words to any of us who work(ed) on these forums!


PTA: "Parent-Teacher Association" for anyone unfamiliar. A very civilized place to discuss divisive and controversial issues

[meretrix]

Aug 21, 2018 21:03:56 GMT winters said:

You nailed it, and it's in the delivery of the message more than the actual content. The rest of the internet is run like a bar fight, and we run this forum more like a PTA meeting

I wish I saw it that way. In my experience you can mitigate the damage by careful choice of words, but as the saying goes, "if you speak the truth have a foot in the stirrup".

If I politely but firmly criticized e.g. Debbie Domingo's handling the publicity of this case or various financial decisions, inevitably the thread would erupt into chaos and all associated posts would be deleted on the grounds of "disruption".

There are at least half a dozen other topics I feel I could not bring to light, even politely, without inciting a similar "purge".

I don't think I would probably be banned for it, but I would not be able to effectively communicate my message because of orwellian "forum etiquette" kind of rules.

Take RedUkulele's thread, for example. I say with utmost sincerity that I was offended by her message and tone. My attempts to articulate how I felt on the matter (which while a bit emotional, I don't think were vile) were deleted. Meanwhile her original post still stands. So in a way her "feelings" are prioritized over mine.

Poof! Gone is my post.

[winters]

Aug 21, 2018 21:49:06 GMT meretrix said:

Aug 21, 2018 21:03:56 GMT winters said:

You nailed it, and it's in the delivery of the message more than the actual content. The rest of the internet is run like a bar fight, and we run this forum more like a PTA meeting

I wish I saw it that way. In my experience you can mitigate the damage by careful choice of words, but as the saying goes, "if you speak the truth have a foot in the stirrup".

If I politely but firmly criticized e.g. Debbie Domingo's handling the publicity of this case or various financial decisions, inevitably the thread would erupt into chaos and all associated posts would be deleted on the grounds of "disruption".

There are at least half a dozen other topics I feel I could not bring to light, even politely, without inciting a similar "purge".

I don't think I would probably be banned for it, but I would not be able to effectively communicate my message because of orwellian "forum etiquette" kind of rules.

Take RedUkulele's thread, for example. I say with utmost sincerity that I was offended by her message and tone. My attempts to articulate how I felt on the matter (which while a bit emotional, I don't think were vile) were deleted. Meanwhile her original post still stands. So in a way her "feelings" are prioritized over mine.

Poof! Gone is my post.

You're certainly under no obligation to like or agree with the forums rules -- even I don't like most of them -- but they're necessary in order to maintain a respectful, productive discussion space related to a very grisly topic. In the case with Red, it's perfectly in-line with what we do here for her to talk about certain things or act certain ways, but it's out-of-line to blast her for it. I have a lot of feelings about a lot of different things too, but I also have to follow the rules, bite my tongue, and engage others in a respectful manner (or simply avoid certain issues). It's just what we've found works best for this discussion board. On Reddit we give a considerably longer leash, but we've had to start tightening things up on there too.

[claudius_2014]

this picture will always stuck in mind

[claudius_2014]

Aug 23, 2018 19:04:46 GMT rogerses said:

Aug 23, 2018 18:34:47 GMT claudius_2014 said:

this picture will always stuck in mind

May have been related to the NBC series 'Hannibal' that was on the air from 2013 to 2015. Great show.



hannibal.wikia.com/wiki/The_Stag_(TV)
 

this image appear in paul zahn show,he had this picture...amazing...he always said what young perp,what usual perp and bang he banned user,he was right,i do remeber those days

[claudius_2014]

Aug 23, 2018 19:04:46 GMT rogerses said:

Aug 23, 2018 18:34:47 GMT claudius_2014 said:

this picture will always stuck in mind

May have been related to the NBC series 'Hannibal' that was on the air from 2013 to 2015. Great show.



hannibal.wikia.com/wiki/The_Stag_(TV)
 

the way how the perp could control murder scene always shocked drifter,he knew it s not  a young perp

[nick]

I have never had an issue with Winters and have always be treated with fairness. She told me when I stepped out of line with another poster and made me think about how others might feel. I have no problem with Winter or Drifter he also told me when I was wrong and I respected his opinion greatly he helped me to see the other side.

Winters works very hard and it shows in the results when she posts and now as a moderator. I have no problems at all with the change.