DNA Questions (not pertaining to Mr. X, Y, Z or T).

[playinem]

It is my understanding that DNA from three Contra Costa county rapes attributed to the EAR was eventually matched by criminalists Holes (Contra Costa) and Hong (OC) to eight homicides (Haringtons-OC, Smiths-Ventura, Witthuhn-Irvine, Domingo/Sanchez-Goleta and Cruz-Irvine).

In the course of researching materials and information related to the above referenced DNA connections, I discovered the following information in a news report detailing the efforts of Contra Costa county criminalist Paul Holes.

The trail eventually grew cold. But over the years, criminalist Paul Holes of the Contra Costra Sheriff's Department, continued to work the case. He ran DNA profiles on semen recovered from the five rapes in his county.

My questions are related to this information. There were seven Contra Costa county rapes attributed by MO link to the EAR. Apparently DNA was collected and saved successfully from five of those seven rapes. Does anyone happen to know which five rapes attributed to the EAR criminalist Holes had DNA for. If DNA profiles were developed from all five samples for comparison with the DNA profile developed for the unknown offender believed responsible for the eight DNA linked homicides in SoCal and only three of the samples from NorCal were developed into a common profile matching the SoCal profile, what happened to the two NorCal DNA samples which did not apparently match the common EAR/ONS DNA profile? If the two nonmatching DNA samples weren't a match with the EAR/ONS profile, why are those two NorCal rapes still classified as EAR crimes? It appears to me that this information indicates that there may be at least two NorCal home invasion rapes for which the unknown perpetrator of at least 11 DNA linked EAR/ONS crimes is cleared by lack of a DNA match. If this is true, how many more of the NorCal rapes was DNA successfully collected and saved? In how many is DNA currently available and still viable for analysis and comparison? Finally, wouldn't it seem to make a great deal of sense to develop and compare all possible existing DNA profiles with the profile developed from the 11 DNA linked (8 SoCal murders + 3 NorCal rapes) crimes? I do realize that the Statute of Limitations has tolled on the NorCal rapes however, it seems that the information which might be discovered through pursuing answers to the questions and explanations to the issues presented might ultimately be worth any reasonable time and resources expended. 

[xiulan]

Excellent questions, Play, and the ones I've most fervently sought answers to since my introduction to this case. It has always seemed a problem for the investigation that there were more samples in Contra Costa than were linked to the murders and that there were none linked to the other rapes. I also find it difficult to comprehend the explanation seems to be that LE in Sacramento "lost" or simply threw away ALL of their DNA samples. This comes off as disingenuous to me in a serial case of this magnitude, whether any murders were linked in when the statute officially ran out or not. You don't continue to have officers working a case beyond statute if you've thrown away your only conclusive evidence. Something isn't right at all with this situation regarding the DNA here, in my opinion. Perhaps someone with more complete information than you or I will be able to elucidate further and clear up some of this confusion as well.

[playinem]

Very well stated. Hopefully someone will enlighten us but, I'm not going to give up looking into these issues and questions yet and I'm sure you won't either. Promise you this xiu...when I know, you will too.

[danmiami]

Feb 23, 2014 2:18:17 GMT xiulan said:

Excellent questions, Play, and the ones I've most fervently sought answers to since my introduction to this case. It has always seemed a problem for the investigation that there were more samples in Contra Costa than were linked to the murders and that there were none linked to the other rapes. I also find it difficult to comprehend the explanation seems to be that LE in Sacramento "lost" or simply threw away ALL of their DNA samples. This comes off as disingenuous to me in a serial case of this magnitude, whether any murders were linked in when the statute officially ran out or not. You don't continue to have officers working a case beyond statute if you've thrown away your only conclusive evidence. Something isn't right at all with this situation regarding the DNA here, in my opinion. Perhaps someone with more complete information than you or I will be able to elucidate further and clear up some of this confusion as well.

[danmiami]

You know just the mere fact that rape kits or biological samples are being "lost" peak my interest as just amazing and mindboggling. I mean I occasionally lose my car keys or at times misplace my wallet. But for a piece of evidence so critical for the purposes of apprehending a sexual deviant becomes "lost". I find this totally inexcuseable and completely unconscionable that is borders criminal negligence. Is it a matter of space in the police storage rooms? Do police and sheriff departments have too much clutter that they cannot properly tag and store evidence for cases that grow cold over a period of time? To your point of DNA samples being "thrown away". Why something so critical as DNA swabs (or often we hear about fingerprints evidence missing) is again missing when critical evidence obtained from well intended crime scene techs who go through a very meticulous process of eliminating DNA which belong at crime scenes vs those which do not belong or need further explantion. How any protocols kept and who is responsible for maintaining the integrity of evidence in the labs and in storage? Again mindboggling stuff. It is like the detectives accidentally mixed in evidence with ordered out late night Chinese food deliveries during those late night round table discussions. Then everything is thrown away. I am being facitious but please help me out here??? In all seriousness is there a formal process to ensure the safety of these samples? What about contamination? What if EAR actually worked in the crime labs? Yes that is a stretch but crazier things have taken place. Can samples be swapped without the proper oversight? Makes you wonder who and how owns the custody of the evidence and how the integrity is insured and verified. Maybe that is why the multiple DNA swabs on suspects!!

I am sure you folks remember how the criminalist at the crime scene of the Smith murders literally made sure that Charlene's rape swab was dried by a fan at the house to ensure the profile was void of any potential mishaps. How do you think those crime scene investigators feel who go to such extremes in ensuring that the evidence is obtained winds up being "lost" or "thrown away"? Nothing to even think about the emotional toll the rape victims and families endure while being subjected to the rape examination. Then one is told your kit was either "lost" or "thrown away"? But we apologize!!!

There are two types of cops in this investigation as I see it. Those who we owe many thanks and cudos for linking the cases through their proactive processes in maintaining the samples so that technology perhaps someday can put a face or name on this killer and rapist. Then you have the police agency who gave Crompton a bunch of flak for sharing evidence with Investigtor Pool without proper permission or process. Are you kidding me? What has that person been doing to contribute to this investigation besides writing rediculous procedural letters demanding evidence be returned? This way the boxes can be returned so more cobwebs can accumulate and this blog is still is active into the next century. I won't be here but let's hope not!!!

[Deleted]

It's the supposed disposal of the Sacramento rape kits and the lack of info regarding that disposal that bothers me more than anything else about this case. If EAR was suspected of killing the Maggories disposing of anything connected to the rape cases strikes me as totally irresponsible at best. There are two possibilities here. One is incompetence and laziness. The other is is a coverup. If there is a third please enlighten me.  Spend a million dollars chasing a guy and toss the evidence when the statute of limitations runs out. Please.

[xiulan]

Feb 23, 2014 6:59:32 GMT f1guyus said:

It's the supposed disposal of the Sacramento rape kits and the lack of info regarding that disposal that bothers me more than anything else about this case. If EAR was suspected of killing the Maggories disposing of anything connected to the rape cases strikes me as totally irresponsible at best. There are two possibilities here. One is incompetence and laziness. The other is is a coverup. If there is a third please enlighten me.  Spend a million dollars chasing a guy and toss the evidence when the statute of limitations runs out. Please.

Agreed. This isn't the sort of thing that would happen under normal circumstances in a case like this one. Statute or no, this was a prolific serial predator. All indications were that he'd escalate to murder. LE consistently put forth this view and continued to keep people working this case beyond statute. Destroying the evidence under those circumstances makes not a lick of sense. Casually dismissing it with 'oh, the statute ran out' is a disturbing stance, in my opinion. When dealing with the apprehension of an offender with this guy's history, there is always a case to be made for something that's not expired; there are always connections to be made with other crimes. That evidence didn't cease being integral to the case as a whole simply because five (or is it six in Cali?) years had passed. The whole idea is outrageous and unacceptable and amounts to a total disservice with regard to the victims. Just my opinion, of course.

[Deleted]

Maybe it's opinion but it's the right opinion.

[Deleted]

Testing ABC

[xiulan]

Feb 23, 2014 7:44:33 GMT f1guyus said:

Testing Ripon

Well-played, sir. 

[danmiami]

Feb 23, 2014 7:44:33 GMT f1guyus said:

Testing Ripon

[guessting]

SACRAMENTO DOES HAVE DNA To test. It is tested regularly and will continue to be tested until it no longer exists. Then plan b will go into effect!


For play and xui xiu

[xiulan]

Feb 23, 2014 20:02:44 GMT guessting said:

SACRAMENTO DOES HAVE DNA To test. It is tested regularly and will continue to be tested until it no longer exists. Then plan b will go into effect!


For play and xui xiu

I believe the point in question is why are there only DNA links from 3 Contra Costa rapes to the ONS murders if Sacramento has DNA available. Did it not match? Was it not checked, for some inexplicable reason, against the OC and CCC DNA? This, I think, is where the confusion lies for some of us. Given the information that Sac is confirmed to have kept samples, are you able to clear up the above questions as well?

Thanks. --Xiu

[guessting]

Yes.

[genetomas]

That's plain stupid. So why do they say ear is linked to CCC cases by mo only? Guesting you also say they have fingerprints that match SB, yet no mention of that. Hmmm and that's why we question when they say someone is cleared by DNA.