Mike Margaret & Donna Hall 8/17/84 - 8/21/84

[cleopatra]

Feb 10, 2020 20:20:49 GMT griswold said:

I wrote this on FB this afternoon:
CPK carjacks his victims. They left a party at midnight, the back soft window was always open. CPK was in the back seat hiding under the blanket and threatened to hurt Donna unless Mike didnt do what he said. He directed them to drive near to where he had a canoe at a nearby pond which led to the James River. Mike Margaret resisted when he was in the driver's seat because he had a knife wound in the right side of his stomach, because he didn't comply or tried to blitz the Killer when being partially injected with Demerol because the male would need to be incapacitated first, and the stabbing is consistent with the blood pattern since CPK was in the backseat as he was in all attacks. Donna was injected with Demerol at the same time Mike jumped out after being stabbed, because the syringe was ready in the killer's left hand, and after pushing the plunger with the needle in Donna's neck, CPK dropped the syringe, jumped out of the back of the CJ7 to face Mike, and the back soft window was rolled up and pinned and the pins were rusty, because it was always rolled up. Therefore CPK had to jump out the back. Mike was resisting after being partially injected and stabbed, and as they fought, Donna was in the passanger seat with a heavy dose that mostly incapacitated her. Mike was stabbed repeatedly which was not for mutilation(or the worn out "overkill" label), but to make sure he was dead and with anger for not complying, also for injuring the killer, and to make sure Mike was no longer a threat. The killer's type A blood was there because he was looking for something which would have to be the syringe he injected them with, he had to drop it after injecting Donna so he could jump out and fight Mike immediately. Mike got a piece of him and it was superficial because he only needed the blanket to transport Donna with which follows the CPK m.o. Then he pushed Donna onto the blanket which was taken out from behind the seat which was there so Donna could use it if she got cold. He then dragged her behind the jeep towards Mike's body on the blanket, and she grabbed the pine needles or had them put in her hand. He killed her, then pulled the blanket out from underneath her and crumpled it up and threw it in the bushes near her body between her and the jeep in a line going to Mike and the trees. After they were killed he smoked cigarettes as he looked for the syringe in the jeep and dripped type A blood, from which DNA has been retained. He then arranged stuff in the back seat to make it look like he wasnt sitting in the back by spreading out the belongings in Mike's jeep and did the same in Keith's car too. And another time probably was in the back of David's truck with a gun to his head, the same gun that shot him in the shoulder. Then he made his way towards the pond where his canoe was waiting to take him to the James River, and it started to rain because he knew it would wash away evidence and he saw the weather forecast.

Strong theory.

[cleopatra]

[cleopatra]

[cleopatra]

[billthom56]

Bill Thomas from the Colonial Parkway Murders here.

Our true crime podcast "Mind Over Murder" hast just devoted 6 episodes to the Donna Hall/Mike Margaret murder case.

We have uncovered a lot of new information in this case in 4 episodes with victim advocate Blue Hall (no relation to Donna Hall) and 2 episodes with Thomas Holsinger, the retired Henrico County detective who was the lead investigator in the Hall/Margaret case for several years. Detective Holsinger has never spoken publicly at length about the case.

Check out Episodes 32-37 of "Mind Over Murder" here or on your favorite podcast platform:

anchor.fm/william-thomas48/episodes/Episode-32-Donna-HallMike-Margaret-Murder-with-Blue-Hall-Part-1-eirck0

Thanks.


Bill Thomas
Brother of Cathy Thomas, Colonial Parkway Murders
Co Host, Mind Over Murder Podcast

[njen]

This case is also interesting to me. I believe it could be a CPK murder. I feel like the killer may have been early on in his murder career and was trying out different ways of gaining control over his victims. Demerol can be injected or taken orally (tablet or liquid). Obviously injection would have an almost instantaneous effect while the oral routes would take longer. I wonder if the medical examiner found traces of demerol in their stomachs or looked for needle pricks in their skin. The Marlboro cigarettes and beer seem to indicate they were there for a while. Perhaps he was waiting for the demerol to kick in.

[griswold]

Dec 18, 2020 21:43:47 GMT njen said:

This case is also interesting to me. I believe it could be a CPK murder. I feel like the killer may have been early on in his murder career and was trying out different ways of gaining control over his victims. Demerol can be injected or taken orally (tablet or liquid). Obviously injection would have an almost instantaneous effect while the oral routes would take longer. I wonder if the medical examiner found traces of demerol in their stomachs or looked for needle pricks in their skin. The Marlboro cigarettes and beer seem to indicate they were there for a while. Perhaps he was waiting for the demerol to kick in.

Mike reacted violently to being injected in his neck, and was rewarded with a knife plunging into his right ribcage because the killer had carjacked them as in the other crimes. Donna got the rest of the syringe. The cigarettes were most likely planted just as the evidence scattered about the other crime scenes and auto interiors would suggest. The blood dripped on the interior would also be planted. These are obvious red herrings, and designed to make this offender look like multiple killers instead of just one. From the moment they left the party/gathering, the killer was in full control as always.

[billthom56]

Dec 18, 2020 21:43:47 GMT njen said:

This case is also interesting to me. I believe it could be a CPK murder. I feel like the killer may have been early on in his murder career and was trying out different ways of gaining control over his victims. Demerol can be injected or taken orally (tablet or liquid). Obviously injection would have an almost instantaneous effect while the oral routes would take longer. I wonder if the medical examiner found traces of demerol in their stomachs or looked for needle pricks in their skin. The Marlboro cigarettes and beer seem to indicate they were there for a while. Perhaps he was waiting for the demerol to kick in.

NJen:

Based on everything we have learned about the murder of Donna Hall and Mike Margaret, it strongly appears to be drug related robbery and murder.

Advanced DNA testing is being conducted on some of the evidence in the case, so there may be movement in their case in the next few months.

We cover quite a bit of the case in 6 episodes of our "Mind Over Murder" podcast starting with this episode:

anchor.fm/william-thomas48/episodes/Episode-32-Donna-HallMike-Margaret-Murder-with-Blue-Hall-Part-1-eirck0



Thanks.


Bill Thomas, Brother of Cathy Thomas, Colonial Parkway Murders

[billthom56]

Dec 21, 2020 19:14:37 GMT griswold said:

Dec 18, 2020 21:43:47 GMT njen said:

This case is also interesting to me. I believe it could be a CPK murder. I feel like the killer may have been early on in his murder career and was trying out different ways of gaining control over his victims. Demerol can be injected or taken orally (tablet or liquid). Obviously injection would have an almost instantaneous effect while the oral routes would take longer. I wonder if the medical examiner found traces of demerol in their stomachs or looked for needle pricks in their skin. The Marlboro cigarettes and beer seem to indicate they were there for a while. Perhaps he was waiting for the demerol to kick in.

Mike reacted violently to being injected in his neck, and was rewarded with a knife plunging into his right ribcage because the killer had carjacked them as in the other crimes. Donna got the rest of the syringe. The cigarettes were most likely planted just as the evidence scattered about the other crime scenes and auto interiors would suggest. The blood dripped on the interior would also be planted. These are obvious red herrings, and designed to make this offender look like multiple killers instead of just one. From the moment they left the party/gathering, the killer was in full control as always.

Gris:

Based on what we have learned about the killers of Donna Hall and Mike Margaret, they weren't all that smart.

Donna and Mike knew their killers, and their killers knew them.

Thanks.



Bill Thomas

[cleopatra]

Dec 22, 2020 17:51:24 GMT billthom56 said:

Dec 21, 2020 19:14:37 GMT griswold said:

Mike reacted violently to being injected in his neck, and was rewarded with a knife plunging into his right ribcage because the killer had carjacked them as in the other crimes. Donna got the rest of the syringe. The cigarettes were most likely planted just as the evidence scattered about the other crime scenes and auto interiors would suggest. The blood dripped on the interior would also be planted. These are obvious red herrings, and designed to make this offender look like multiple killers instead of just one. From the moment they left the party/gathering, the killer was in full control as always.

Gris:

Based on what we have learned about the killers of Donna Hall and Mike Margaret, they weren't all that smart.

Donna and Mike knew their killers, and their killers knew them.

Thanks.



Bill Thomas

Bill, 

How do you know that?  Is that a fact or theory?

Cleo

[billthom56]

Dec 24, 2020 7:27:40 GMT cleopatra said:

Dec 22, 2020 17:51:24 GMT billthom56 said:

Gris:

Based on what we have learned about the killers of Donna Hall and Mike Margaret, they weren't all that smart.

Donna and Mike knew their killers, and their killers knew them.

Thanks.



Bill Thomas

Bill, 

How do you know that?  Is that a fact or theory?

Cleo

Cleo:

Well, it's all theory until arrests are made, but we just interviewed Thomas Holsinger, the longtime lead detective in the Donna Hall/Mike Margaret case, and he is pretty firm.  Here is part 1 of 2 podcast episodes:

anchor.fm/william-thomas48/episodes/Episode-36-Donna-HallMike-Margaret-Murder-w-Retired-Detective-Thomas-Holsinger-Part-1-ek7ib7

Thanks.



Bill

[daedra]

Dec 24, 2020 19:14:14 GMT billthom56 said:

Dec 24, 2020 7:27:40 GMT cleopatra said:

Bill, 

How do you know that?  Is that a fact or theory?

Cleo

Cleo:

Well, it's all theory until arrests are made, but we just interviewed Thomas Holsinger, the longtime lead detective in the Donna Hall/Mike Margaret case, and he is pretty firm.  Here is part 1 of 2 podcast episodes:

anchor.fm/william-thomas48/episodes/Episode-36-Donna-HallMike-Margaret-Murder-w-Retired-Detective-Thomas-Holsinger-Part-1-ek7ib7

Thanks.



Bill

Bill,

Awesome! I'm looking forward to listening to the episodes. I enjoyed your coverage of CPK and am interested in hearing your perspective on Hall and Margaret. 

[daedra]

Came across an interesting article about a nurse who stole Demerol from a Williamsburg area hospital in August 1984 around the time Donna and Mike were killed.

[daedra]

Feb 27, 2020 18:22:33 GMT cleopatra said:

Feb 10, 2020 20:20:49 GMT griswold said:

I wrote this on FB this afternoon:
CPK carjacks his victims. They left a party at midnight, the back soft window was always open. CPK was in the back seat hiding under the blanket and threatened to hurt Donna unless Mike didnt do what he said. He directed them to drive near to where he had a canoe at a nearby pond which led to the James River. Mike Margaret resisted when he was in the driver's seat because he had a knife wound in the right side of his stomach, because he didn't comply or tried to blitz the Killer when being partially injected with Demerol because the male would need to be incapacitated first, and the stabbing is consistent with the blood pattern since CPK was in the backseat as he was in all attacks. Donna was injected with Demerol at the same time Mike jumped out after being stabbed, because the syringe was ready in the killer's left hand, and after pushing the plunger with the needle in Donna's neck, CPK dropped the syringe, jumped out of the back of the CJ7 to face Mike, and the back soft window was rolled up and pinned and the pins were rusty, because it was always rolled up. Therefore CPK had to jump out the back. Mike was resisting after being partially injected and stabbed, and as they fought, Donna was in the passanger seat with a heavy dose that mostly incapacitated her. Mike was stabbed repeatedly which was not for mutilation(or the worn out "overkill" label), but to make sure he was dead and with anger for not complying, also for injuring the killer, and to make sure Mike was no longer a threat. The killer's type A blood was there because he was looking for something which would have to be the syringe he injected them with, he had to drop it after injecting Donna so he could jump out and fight Mike immediately. Mike got a piece of him and it was superficial because he only needed the blanket to transport Donna with which follows the CPK m.o. Then he pushed Donna onto the blanket which was taken out from behind the seat which was there so Donna could use it if she got cold. He then dragged her behind the jeep towards Mike's body on the blanket, and she grabbed the pine needles or had them put in her hand. He killed her, then pulled the blanket out from underneath her and crumpled it up and threw it in the bushes near her body between her and the jeep in a line going to Mike and the trees. After they were killed he smoked cigarettes as he looked for the syringe in the jeep and dripped type A blood, from which DNA has been retained. He then arranged stuff in the back seat to make it look like he wasnt sitting in the back by spreading out the belongings in Mike's jeep and did the same in Keith's car too. And another time probably was in the back of David's truck with a gun to his head, the same gun that shot him in the shoulder. Then he made his way towards the pond where his canoe was waiting to take him to the James River, and it started to rain because he knew it would wash away evidence and he saw the weather forecast.

Strong theory.

Just curious: was it ever released WHERE on the body Donna and Mike were injected (assuming they were injected and didn't take oral demerol). If needle pricks were found near the crook of the elbow or another common injection site, I would assume they took it voluntarily (or were tricked into taking if they were told it was something else). Not sure how powerful or fast-acting Demerol is compared to other injectable drugs like heroin. They may have been expecting to get high, then got railroaded by the Demerol. But if the injection sites were someplace weird like the neck, then I'd lean towards them being forcibly injected. If someone jabbed them in an attack there might also be a lot more bruising/torn skin around the injection site compared to someone carefully placing a needle into their own skin. 

[mustangman]

Apr 4, 2021 5:08:36 GMT daedra said:

Feb 27, 2020 18:22:33 GMT cleopatra said:

Strong theory.

Just curious: was it ever released WHERE on the body Donna and Mike were injected (assuming they were injected and didn't take oral demerol). If needle pricks were found near the crook of the elbow or another common injection site, I would assume they took it voluntarily (or were tricked into taking if they were told it was something else). Not sure how powerful or fast-acting Demerol is compared to other injectable drugs like heroin. They may have been expecting to get high, then got railroaded by the Demerol. But if the injection sites were someplace weird like the neck, then I'd lean towards them being forcibly injected. If someone jabbed them in an attack there might also be a lot more bruising/torn skin around the injection site compared to someone carefully placing a needle into their own skin. 

What I find curious is that if they were drugged, why the blood from the victims in the car?   What's the point of violence to a victim if they are drugged and semi or fully unconscious or cooperative?  From what I've read the attacker also got injured and left blood in the jeep along with the blood of both victims.  This seems to say that the two victims were coherent enough that they fought back against their attacker?