Mike Margaret & Donna Hall 8/17/84 - 8/21/84

[daedra]

Apr 5, 2021 0:41:00 GMT mustangman said:

Apr 4, 2021 5:08:36 GMT daedra said:

Just curious: was it ever released WHERE on the body Donna and Mike were injected (assuming they were injected and didn't take oral demerol). If needle pricks were found near the crook of the elbow or another common injection site, I would assume they took it voluntarily (or were tricked into taking if they were told it was something else). Not sure how powerful or fast-acting Demerol is compared to other injectable drugs like heroin. They may have been expecting to get high, then got railroaded by the Demerol. But if the injection sites were someplace weird like the neck, then I'd lean towards them being forcibly injected. If someone jabbed them in an attack there might also be a lot more bruising/torn skin around the injection site compared to someone carefully placing a needle into their own skin. 

What I find curious is that if they were drugged, why the blood from the victims in the car?   What's the point of violence to a victim if they are drugged and semi or fully unconscious or cooperative?  From what I've read the attacker also got injured and left blood in the jeep along with the blood of both victims.  This seems to say that the two victims were coherent enough that they fought back against their attacker? 

I read that Donna had no defensive wounds (just a clump of grass curled in her hand), but Mike had defensive wounds. He also had less of the drug in his system. The amount of Demerol in Donna's system was apparently pretty significant. It sounds like Mike was coherent enough to at least attempt to defend himself, while Donna was basically in a stupor. 

For the blood in the jeep, it sounds like only the attacker's was found in the vehicle and that the spatter pattern suggests the battle was already over: 

"The forensic guys found 3 blood types— Mike’s, Donna’s, and a John Doe who had blood Type A. John Doe’s was found in the Jeep, thanks to the fact the back canvas top had been rolled up. The rain hadn’t touched it. There was a drop on the blue suitcase, drops on the back of the passenger seat, one on the side of the driver’s seat cushion (so it had probably come from the back and missed the back of the seat and went between the seats and landed on the side of the driver’s seat cushion). However, 4 more drops were found on the side of the transmission housing under the driver’s seat.



None of the drops seem to show the sunburst or splatter effect, and only a couple within the Jeep are particularly like a slanted exclamation point. Meaning? Meaning it is hard to imagine they were splattered there during the heat of battle. If they are all from the John Doe attacker it would more or less seem that he was looking for something in there after-the-fact; and, having been injured, drops of blood popped about. The blood under the driver’s is especially curious. It’s as though he saw what he was looking for through the open passenger side door, went around, pulled out from under the seat what he wanted— a few drops of blood from his fingers splattering on the housing. He instinctively closed the driver’s door."

From this site which admittedly I don't know the credibility of 

[mustangman]

Apr 5, 2021 14:23:52 GMT daedra said:

Apr 5, 2021 0:41:00 GMT mustangman said:

What I find curious is that if they were drugged, why the blood from the victims in the car?   What's the point of violence to a victim if they are drugged and semi or fully unconscious or cooperative?  From what I've read the attacker also got injured and left blood in the jeep along with the blood of both victims.  This seems to say that the two victims were coherent enough that they fought back against their attacker? 

I read that Donna had no defensive wounds (just a clump of grass curled in her hand), but Mike had defensive wounds. He also had less of the drug in his system. The amount of Demerol in Donna's system was apparently pretty significant. It sounds like Mike was coherent enough to at least attempt to defend himself, while Donna was basically in a stupor. 

For the blood in the jeep, it sounds like only the attacker's was found in the vehicle and that the spatter pattern suggests the battle was already over: 

"The forensic guys found 3 blood types— Mike’s, Donna’s, and a John Doe"The forensic guys found 3 blood types— Mike’s, Donna’s, and a John Doe who had blood Type A. John Doe’s was found in the Jeep, thanks to the fact the back canvas top had been rolled up. The rain hadn’t touched it. There was a drop on the blue suitcase, drops on the back of the passenger seat, one on the side of the driver’s seat cushion (so it had probably come from the back and missed the back of the seat and went between the seats and landed on the side of the driver’s seat cushion). However, 4 more drops were found on the side of the transmission housing under the driver’s seat.



None of the drops seem to show the sunburst or splatter effect, and only a couple within the Jeep are particularly like a slanted exclamation point. Meaning? Meaning it is hard to imagine they were splattered there during the heat of battle. If they are all from the John Doe attacker it would more or less seem that he was looking for something in there after-the-fact; and, having been injured, drops of blood popped about. The blood under the driver’s is especially curious. It’s as though he saw what he was looking for through the open passenger side door, went around, pulled out from under the seat what he wanted— a few drops of blood from his fingers splattering on the housing. He instinctively closed the driver’s door."

From this site which admittedly I don't know the credibility of 

"The forensic guys found 3 blood types— Mike’s, Donna’s, and a John Doe""...  so Mikes & Donna's blood were also found in the jeep??  This is what I remember LE reporting...  In your response you are saying that only the attackers blood was found in the Jeep?  or just the splattered drops of blood are from the attacker?  I still wonder why the victims blood was also found in the car if they were drugged?   

[daedra]

Apr 5, 2021 20:26:10 GMT mustangman said:

Apr 5, 2021 14:23:52 GMT daedra said:

I read that Donna had no defensive wounds (just a clump of grass curled in her hand), but Mike had defensive wounds. He also had less of the drug in his system. The amount of Demerol in Donna's system was apparently pretty significant. It sounds like Mike was coherent enough to at least attempt to defend himself, while Donna was basically in a stupor. 

For the blood in the jeep, it sounds like only the attacker's was found in the vehicle and that the spatter pattern suggests the battle was already over: 

"The forensic guys found 3 blood types— Mike’s, Donna’s, and a John Doe"The forensic guys found 3 blood types— Mike’s, Donna’s, and a John Doe who had blood Type A. John Doe’s was found in the Jeep, thanks to the fact the back canvas top had been rolled up. The rain hadn’t touched it. There was a drop on the blue suitcase, drops on the back of the passenger seat, one on the side of the driver’s seat cushion (so it had probably come from the back and missed the back of the seat and went between the seats and landed on the side of the driver’s seat cushion). However, 4 more drops were found on the side of the transmission housing under the driver’s seat.



None of the drops seem to show the sunburst or splatter effect, and only a couple within the Jeep are particularly like a slanted exclamation point. Meaning? Meaning it is hard to imagine they were splattered there during the heat of battle. If they are all from the John Doe attacker it would more or less seem that he was looking for something in there after-the-fact; and, having been injured, drops of blood popped about. The blood under the driver’s is especially curious. It’s as though he saw what he was looking for through the open passenger side door, went around, pulled out from under the seat what he wanted— a few drops of blood from his fingers splattering on the housing. He instinctively closed the driver’s door."

From this site which admittedly I don't know the credibility of 

"The forensic guys found 3 blood types— Mike’s, Donna’s, and a John Doe""...  so Mikes & Donna's blood were also found in the jeep??  This is what I remember LE reporting...  In your response you are saying that only the attackers blood was found in the Jeep?  or just the splattered drops of blood are from the attacker?  I still wonder why the victims blood was also found in the car if they were drugged?   

Sounds like only John Doe's was found in the jeep according to that source. 

The wording is a little unclear, but the way I interpreted it was "three blood types were found at the scene of the crime but only John Doe's was inside the jeep." That means the battle would have happened in the woods, and probably also rules out them being killed elsewhere and transported in the jeep. 

I'm gonna see if I can find another source too because that one is worded weird. 

[cleopatra]

Apr 5, 2021 0:41:00 GMT mustangman said:

Apr 4, 2021 5:08:36 GMT daedra said:

Just curious: was it ever released WHERE on the body Donna and Mike were injected (assuming they were injected and didn't take oral demerol). If needle pricks were found near the crook of the elbow or another common injection site, I would assume they took it voluntarily (or were tricked into taking if they were told it was something else). Not sure how powerful or fast-acting Demerol is compared to other injectable drugs like heroin. They may have been expecting to get high, then got railroaded by the Demerol. But if the injection sites were someplace weird like the neck, then I'd lean towards them being forcibly injected. If someone jabbed them in an attack there might also be a lot more bruising/torn skin around the injection site compared to someone carefully placing a needle into their own skin. 

What I find curious is that if they were drugged, why the blood from the victims in the car?   What's the point of violence to a victim if they are drugged and semi or fully unconscious or cooperative?  From what I've read the attacker also got injured and left blood in the jeep along with the blood of both victims.  This seems to say that the two victims were coherent enough that they fought back against their attacker? 

I haven't listened to the podcast yet.  It may answer these questions.

As I recall, Donna had a lot of  demerol in her system- enough to cause incapacitation.   Alot more than Michael h ad in his system.  Michael had such a small amount in his. 

[njen]

I was on the Justice for Margaret-Hall FB page and found someone had posted a photo of Donna and a friend with the caption "Donna and friends skipping class to hangout at Pony Pasture along the James River." Strange how the James River has been a theme with so many murders.

[griswoldeerie]

Apr 5, 2021 21:01:45 GMT daedra said:

Apr 5, 2021 20:26:10 GMT mustangman said:

"The forensic guys found 3 blood types— Mike’s, Donna’s, and a John Doe""...  so Mikes & Donna's blood were also found in the jeep??  This is what I remember LE reporting...  In your response you are saying that only the attackers blood was found in the Jeep?  or just the splattered drops of blood are from the attacker?  I still wonder why the victims blood was also found in the car if they were drugged?   

Sounds like only John Doe's was found in the jeep according to that source. 

The wording is a little unclear, but the way I interpreted it was "three blood types were found at the scene of the crime but only John Doe's was inside the jeep." That means the battle would have happened in the woods, and probably also rules out them being killed elsewhere and transported in the jeep. 

I'm gonna see if I can find another source too because that one is worded weird. 

I don't believe it rules out them being killed elsewhere whatsoever. They could have been killed in a van, or outside at a different location, and dumped where the jeep was staged. It rained prior to the discovery of the scene by a pedestrian. Of course Donna and Mike's blood was at the dump scene, that's where their bodies were found. Don't presume they were killed there and the rain washed away the extra blood, the m.o. dictates they were killed elsewhere. They could have killed Donna and Mike closer to where they were abducted from, transported them with Donna on the blanket in the van to prevent getting much blood in the van, resulting in a blood- soaked blanket. Or killed her on the blanket in or outside the van.

I'm presenting this scenario to fit the known m.o. of killing at a different location.

Smaller killer carjacked them after leaving a party which is similar to other attacks, forced them to drive to a predetermined kill location where the big killer was waiting, Mike fought with the big killer like the drivers in the other crimes, only the drivers have defensive wounds. Donna was injected as Mike fought with the big one so she wouldn't run away. The little killer helped the big one subdue Mike, and the little killer got a superficial wound that bled. They couldnt be killed in the tiny jeep, so after they were killed, they were loaded in the van, the big killer drove the van with the bodies and met the little killer at the dump site where the jeep was backed into the woods. They dumped Mike, then Donna, and took the blanket out of the van, crumpled it up and threw it next to her body, and put pine needles in her hand to make it appear thats where they were killed. Then the smaller killer whom always stages the vehicles, reached under the seat to retrieve the case that housed the syringe, he was forced to quickly place under the driver's seat after injecting Donna when he ran to help subdue Mike. He must have reached under the seat dripping blood after parking the jeep where they dumped the bodies and staged the jeep. The jeep vinyl rear window was always rolled up and pinned according to Mike's brother, there was no blood on the back vinyl window. They could have been killed away from where they were found, like the other victims were. Instead of putting them back in the vehicle like like they did with Kathy and Becky, they just dumped them on the ground where they were discovered.

I challenge anyone to find a scenario better than mine in this case that better aligns with the strict M.O. of the Colonial parkway murders.

[griswoldeerie]

May 18, 2021 18:46:44 GMT njen said:

I was on the Justice for Margaret-Hall FB page and found someone had posted a photo of Donna and a friend with the caption "Donna and friends skipping class to hangout at Pony Pasture along the James River." Strange how the James River has been a theme with so many murders.

Maybe this is the actual murder location!!

[mustangman]

Mar 28, 2022 15:17:48 GMT griswoldeerie said:

May 18, 2021 18:46:44 GMT njen said:

I was on the Justice for Margaret-Hall FB page and found someone had posted a photo of Donna and a friend with the caption "Donna and friends skipping class to hangout at Pony Pasture along the James River." Strange how the James River has been a theme with so many murders.

Maybe this is the actual murder location!!

I'd be interested in knowing if any of the "Park Rangers" we have names for related to the CPK, also worked the James River Pony Pasture Park?   Maybe one of them work the Shenandoah, Colonial Parkway & Pony Pasture??