Theory: Kevin Coe involved in Sarda Way or EAR Series?

[sammyt]

Apr 7, 2019 12:48:31 GMT kg said:

Apr 7, 2019 9:16:06 GMT sammyt said:

I haven't found any dates to rule out KC involvement, but I find it hard to believe that JJD would ever team up with someone like KC.

JJD's main priorities were to ensure that no victim could ever make a positive ID of him, and that no witness could ever link a vehicle back to him.  Until DNA caught up with him, he was extremely successful in both aims.

KC, on the other hand, didn't hide his face and was subsequently ID'd by dozens of victims, and was caught when his dad's car was spotted near crime scenes.

Why would a paranoid offender who knew and followed all the rules of evidence, team up with a guy who didn't even know or follow the basics?

JJD probably shook his head in disbelief when he read that in Spokane yet another serial rapist had been identified via a vehicle.

It is my opinion that we are attributing a lot to JJD with very little new information on him since his arrest.  Sure we have learned a lot of demographics, when and where he did this and that.  But about more intimate things, about as much as we have is that he screamed at himself in the yard and he lacked common sense.  He was a bad guy no doubt but where is the underwear fetish and the many other oddities we should expect to find?  Also, IMO, Coe was the EMR which more closely resembles his first attack on record in Spokane (1971) and even his later attacks done when he was out jogging.  Coe and Deangelo in combination created an MO that in various ways did not resemble either of their independently operated attacks.

Yes, you're probably right that we're all acting like we know more about JJD than we actually do.

It's hard to deny that he was paranoid about being ID'd by face or car though.  I can't see him ever teaming up with anyone who didn't sing from the same song sheet.

I quite like Coe as a POI for the EMR crimes (and maybe something to do with the EAR letter writing) but the idea that he is Sandy, Zodiac, DB Cooper, EMR, EAR and DeAngelo's accomplice is the most far-fetched theory I've heard on here, and that's saying something...

[kg]

SammyT, who is Sandy? I am not familiar with that character and I am not sure I can handle another one right now:).

Don't forget about all the witness and victim reports of two suspicious characters. I too had a very difficult time arriving at the conclusions I have. It took working through an incredible amount of second guessing, fact checking, creating a timeline of all of these events, etc. Coe and Deangelo are very different characters IMO but when they are both put in the picture the entire series of crimes becomes more believable for me as I have explanations for so many behaviors that Deangelo does not answer for.

When I first stumbled upon Coe I was rolling my eyes thinking, yeah, I need to start reading about yet another rapist, no thanks! And then another thought overlaid that one concurrently in time and I knew I had to RULE HIM OUT. I couldn't do it no matter how much I read, watched video clips, etc. And along the way I found a person who answered for all of the oddities in these crimes. I was told by a very talented figure in this whole discussion that evidence leads to evidence and guesses to guesses. All I find is evidence, circumstantial though it may be. I simply need a comparison between Coe and all available biological evidence that has not yet been answered for and between all nonpublic knowledge and Coe and an overall hard look at him by LE. When that happens, I shall rest my case.

[elnino]

Apr 6, 2019 18:58:52 GMT kg said:

Apr 6, 2019 0:19:54 GMT elnino said:

Someone else has ruined Kevin Coe as a comparison but the book on him is a fascinating insight into the chaotic lifestyle of a serial rapist. The late nights and the effect it has on your work and personal life is far reaching but, if you really put yourself in the partners shoes, would you make the leap to them being a serial sex offender? For a start it undermines the very decision you've made to share your life with them so you're biased already. Bundy's long term partner also put up with his bizarre nocturnal behaviour if you want another example. 

I think it highlights more the terrifyingly difficult task it is to link offenders to crimes when the only connection is a victim type rather than the individual and that all the usual socioeconomic factors that normally apply to those that commit crimes don't generally apply to these individuals. It's you or me but but with an awful secret break in their personality somewhere along the line.

No need to discredit anyone here to make your statement. I abhor sounding petulant but your entire post could have been made without adding in the bias in your first statement. And just for the record, Bundy never had a long term partner.

Ahh, I assume you're the Coe poster? I was too lazy to look it up so it does read as rather disparaging, apologies. I think he's an incredible resource (Coe) into the potential psychology of EARONS without attempting to tie the cases, that's all.

With regards to Bundy's long term partner, I was referring to Elizabeth Kloepfer, who was his girlfriend and fiancé for six years during which time he was committing crimes. She reported him more than once I think. THIS is a short article about her and she features in all the books I've read about him too. 

[nick]

I did know the victim on what everyone refers to as the Sarda incident before she died and I interviewed her son who was the baby involved in that incident as well recently to see what things she might have passed on before her death. I posted it on a thread. The family had talked about the incident quite a bit over the years one of the composites shown at the FBI news conference before JJD was captured was from all those years ago and from a more recent interview with the victim before she died. The sheriff's department had contacted the family when the Rancho cat (Cordova cat) events were discovered to see if the victim could add anything she had already passed by the family did give them some information.

[goldrusher]

Apr 8, 2019 16:26:22 GMT nick said:

I did know the victim on what everyone refers to as the Sarda incident before she died and I interviewed her son who was the baby involved in that incident as well recently to see what things she might have passed on before her death. I posted it on a thread. The family had talked about the incident quite a bit over the years one of the composites shown at the FBI news conference before JJD was captured was from all those years ago and from a more recent interview with the victim before she died. The sheriff's department had contacted the family when the Rancho cat (Cordova cat) events were discovered to see if the victim could add anything she had already passed by the family did give them some information.

Thanks for all you do, Nick. 

[sammyt]

Apr 8, 2019 10:37:17 GMT kg said:

SammyT, who is Sandy? I am not familiar with that character and I am not sure I can handle another one right now:).

Don't forget about all the witness and victim reports of two suspicious characters. I too had a very difficult time arriving at the conclusions I have. It took working through an incredible amount of second guessing, fact checking, creating a timeline of all of these events, etc. Coe and Deangelo are very different characters IMO but when they are both put in the picture the entire series of crimes becomes more believable for me as I have explanations for so many behaviors that Deangelo does not answer for.

When I first stumbled upon Coe I was rolling my eyes thinking, yeah, I need to start reading about yet another rapist, no thanks! And then another thought overlaid that one concurrently in time and I knew I had to RULE HIM OUT. I couldn't do it no matter how much I read, watched video clips, etc. And along the way I found a person who answered for all of the oddities in these crimes. I was told by a very talented figure in this whole discussion that evidence leads to evidence and guesses to guesses. All I find is evidence, circumstantial though it may be. I simply need a comparison between Coe and all available biological evidence that has not yet been answered for and between all nonpublic knowledge and Coe and an overall hard look at him by LE. When that happens, I shall rest my case.

Well I'm not convinced yet at all, but always try to keep an open mind...

Sandy was the mysterious teenager suspected of the first potential zodiac murder in 1963.

[sammyt]

If anything, I wonder if Coe (the serial rapist and realtor) might have been responsible for some of the weird real estate incidents which litter the EAR case.

[kg]

I definitely believe that!

[sammyt]

Apr 8, 2019 19:23:46 GMT kg said:

I definitely believe that!

If you find a Coe link to Sun Set Realty/Sun Set Developments/Sun Shine Realty/Sun Shine Investments then I might start to believe it too...

[mtf65]

Apr 8, 2019 17:26:19 GMT sammyt said:

Apr 8, 2019 10:37:17 GMT kg said:

SammyT, who is Sandy? I am not familiar with that character and I am not sure I can handle another one right now:).

Don't forget about all the witness and victim reports of two suspicious characters. I too had a very difficult time arriving at the conclusions I have. It took working through an incredible amount of second guessing, fact checking, creating a timeline of all of these events, etc. Coe and Deangelo are very different characters IMO but when they are both put in the picture the entire series of crimes becomes more believable for me as I have explanations for so many behaviors that Deangelo does not answer for.

When I first stumbled upon Coe I was rolling my eyes thinking, yeah, I need to start reading about yet another rapist, no thanks! And then another thought overlaid that one concurrently in time and I knew I had to RULE HIM OUT. I couldn't do it no matter how much I read, watched video clips, etc. And along the way I found a person who answered for all of the oddities in these crimes. I was told by a very talented figure in this whole discussion that evidence leads to evidence and guesses to guesses. All I find is evidence, circumstantial though it may be. I simply need a comparison between Coe and all available biological evidence that has not yet been answered for and between all nonpublic knowledge and Coe and an overall hard look at him by LE. When that happens, I shall rest my case.

Well I'm not convinced yet at all, but always try to keep an open mind...

Sandy was the mysterious teenager suspected of the first potential zodiac murder in 1963.

I wonder if Sandy flew a plane, speaking of far fetched.  Does anyone know who the kid from Sacramento was that was interviewed for the muder?

[kg]

A pock-marked offender:

SammyT, I am not going to be able to connect Coe to Sunset, Sunshine or any other organization. This dude used aliases, certainly he would have done so here if engaged in an active criminal lifestyle in the Sacramento area. But here is a little teaser just for you:

www.reddit.com/r/EARONS/comments/89eket/property_investor_sunshine_investments/

Scroll down on this Reddit thread and note the description of a 'pock-marked face'.

From Fred Coe's psych eval regarding an attack he was prosecuted for:

Prior to hypnosis, Mrs. M.S.#1 described him as a white male, approximately 25 to 27 year of age, six feet tall, weighing 165 to 170 pounds, having blond hair, wearing a stocking cap, bright red possibly nylon jacket, blue jeans and wearing some type of gloves with pock marks or acne on his face. She identified a definite jaw line and deep-set eyes.

"Did you also describe him as having acne or pock marks?" - Son, by Jack Olsen

And I read up on Sandy.  Coe would have been 16 and 4 months at the time of the murders of Edwards/Domingos.  Sandy is described as 17-18 years old.  Its possible, if he was out of school for the summer, with the resources he had at his disposal.  He would have been between his sophomore and junior year of high school.  Solitary road trip perhaps.  That's about all I can say there. 

It is also important to note that Coe had a history of aliases and fake organizations.  His Spokane Metro Growth organization that he ran under the name X. Drew Butler was nonexistent but he had letterhead for it.

[kg]

So if Kevin Coe is the Zodiac Killer, we cannot count on any DNA from under the stamps belonging to him, unless of course he didn't decide this until after 1969.  Of course it would just figure with this guy, it is all way too weird!  No loss, I don't think there is any DNA under any stamps from the 1960s still viable anyway. 

"At the office he asked his colleagues to lick his stamps and envelopes, claiming, 'The contaminants activate my allergies'. He seemed to enjoy making others aware of his needs." - Son, by Jack Olsen

[goldrusher]

Kevin Coe looks a bit like David Patrick Kelly to me.

[kg]

A Big Business Offender:

"She mumbled something about him having businesses on the side but planned to concentrate on real estate any day now."  "Yeah", Main said, I've been hearing that for a year." - Kevin Coe's Main Real Estate employer on the cusp of firing him because he was hardly ever in the office and made no sales, Son, by Jack Olsen

"He continued to explain that he was operating three or four businesses but eventually planned to go into real estate full-time."-During the time he was failing at James Black realty in Spokane, Son, by Jack Olsen

"Cory wished he'd given up on the young man months ago, back when Coe had been out of the office more than he'd been in, ostensibly putting together a big disco deal."  Son, by Jack Olsen

"...My mother and I are business partners primarily, she does a lot of work for me." Kevin Coe describing his mother Ruth Coe, Son, by Jack Olsen


"Mah baby boy! Mah Son!" - Ruth Coe, Son, by Jack Olsen

"Damning coincidences piled on from the start.  When asked for his address, Walther put down Sutter Avenue, Carmichael, East Sacramento.  A deputy recalled when EAR Task Force investigators questioned him, and he lawyered up, courtesy of his mother-an overbearing woman who referred to her adult son as "my Jimmy" and who'd once nearly come to blows with his probation officer."  Blood Type A, positive secretor per saliva, just like Kevin Coe.  I don't understand the probation officer thing but if this was Kevin and Ruth they were most certainly living under aliases. I'll Be Gone in the Dark, Michelle McNamara

"She (Ruth) followed him to San Francisco, L.A., Vegas.  She'd stay six months at a time.......".  Son, by Jack Olsen

"As he and Ruth kept saying, those rapes were no big deal.  I still cry when I think about the women he hurt, the lives he changed and disrupted." - girlfriend Gini Perham on Kevin and Ruth Coe

Business partners, rape deniers, real estate, San Francisco, L.A., big business man who lived off dad's credit cards and never had hardly a real job, secretive whereabouts............these themes just keep rearing up.

[kg]

Superfry......go on a kill rampage, Fry night?

What is fry?

It turns out there is such a thing as vocal fry.  What is that?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vocal_fry_register#History_of_register_classification

www.britannica.com/topic/vocal-fry

A breathy raspy voice thing?  Hmmmm.......Kevin Coe was obsessed with his voice.  The EAR spoke through "clenched" teeth, the SHR through "gritted" teeth.  The Zodiac had a middle aged sounding voice (but really acted like a young juvenile male). 

"Recently he'd gone on a diet involving strict avoidance of food additives, and dangerous 'poisons' such as the ones in tapwater.  He provided various explanations for the regimen: that it helped relieve his allergies, that it would raise the low sperm count that had prevented him and Jeni from having children, and that it mellowed his "broadcast" voice.  Jeni couldn't understand the constant concern about his voice.  He spoke with a studied coolness reminiscent of his idol Hugh Hefner, but there was nothing noteworthy about his style or delivery.  He could lower his voice to sound like Santa Claus or punch it up to sound like Ted Baxter, the famous newscaster on the Mary Tyler Moore Show, but these were mimicries.  He'd been fired from his radio DJ job at KENO in Las Vegas after one of the bosses had re-auditioned him on a bad day.  And now he was stuffing himself with sardines and baked potatoes and Perrier water to protect his precious voice." Son, by Jack Olsen

"Gone was his broadcaster's voice..." SHR on trial in 1981, Son, by Jack Olson

"....and the way he gritted his teeth and stretched his lips between phrases." Son, by Jack Olsen

Listen to Kevin Coe's voice 25 years after his verdict at his civil commitment hearing (and for review pay close attention between minutes 3 and 4.5 when he practically does back flips to avoid answering the judge when he asked him where he was living between 1976 - 1978).  That voice: www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ouHj336XbI  

Turns out there was a voice doctor in LA named Morton Cooper who worked with various people with vocal issues to produce desired voice quality, eventually published Change your voice, Change your life.  I can verify he was treating people for spasmodic dysphonia as early as the late 1960s:  www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbRrKDd2ZWU

He also worked with stutterers:  www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gjPNBugBVg  Didn't some EAR victims report a possible stutter?

Vocal fry became a thing in music in the early 1970s.

Kevin Coe, music promoter, broadcast voice proud, in radio in the late 60s/1970s, voice specialist in LA Martin Cooper, vocal fry, Superfry, Fry night........hmmmmmm, what odd connections but they all seem to fit together, they do!  Wonder if Coe patronized Dr. Cooper's office.  I am sure it would be a HIPAA violation to ask him.  He was probably using an alias then anyway.