Thought on Season 2 Unmasking A Killer

[Agent99 aka Sandia]

I'll start the ball rolling and include some of my notes, observations and questions:

The program made it clear they have “not” found his loot!!
  


They apparently do not know where he went after he was fired. They mention he purchased the home in Citrus Heights in 1980 but he was attacking down south. Paul Holes said there is some indication that he got a job as a mechanic but he also heard he was working for P G & E, that when in was in the navy he was a diver and that his job at PG&E was pulling up sump pumps. So they way he related this indicates they do not know if this is true.



So…….all of this makes me wonder about Sharon. Why do they not know. I heard she was cooperating. If so, what is the mystery. One possibility is that she is not cooperating, but the other possibility is that Paul Holes is retired now and so he no longer has access to the current info on the case. I am guessing the latter.


Paige Kneeland said that Sharon may not have known but wondered how she didn’t question his absences.



Chief Willick said in the 70’s DeAngelo asked him to come over to his house and pointed out that he and the wife slept in different bedrooms that Willick thought was strange.



D’Ambrosia said the wife may have been desensitized to his behavior because her own father was a peeping Tom. (However, was he a peeping Tom only when he was a teen, or did he ever stop? He was arrested only once. I think when he was 18.)



Chief Willick made a very good point. He had a mustache! He had short hair that was balding. He didn’t look like any of the sketches.


HERE IS A QUESTION FOR THE CHIEF: I’d like to know if the whole time he worked for the Auburn PD he had a mustache or did he grow one after the Maggiori murders?


I was surprised how Detective Paige Kneeland pointed out the Maggiore sketch with the mustache as looking like him. In my opinion it doesn’t necessarily look like him only that he had a mustache. I always thought the mustache was one of two men who had been walking in the neighborhood but were cleared. I wish this info could be cleared up.


Comments about dogs reaction to someone who had previously sprayed the dog with dog repellent and that the dog would remember and not attack and run away from that person. I had a dog once that had been a stray. When the mailman came to the house my gentle little dog became a terrifying snarling, teeth baring beast that wanted to kill the mailman. I always assumed that at some point in the past my dog had been sprayed by a mailman with mace.



Victim #10 said at one point she lived 2 minutes from DeAngelo and it upsets her to know she probably shopped at the same shopping center.
  That is indeed so creepy!

[Deleted]

Feb 19, 2019 7:47:30 GMT Agent99 aka Sandia said:

I'll start the ball rolling and include some of my notes, observations and questions:

The program made it clear they have “not” found his loot!!
  


They apparently do not know where he went after he was fired. They mention he purchased the home in Citrus Heights in 1980 but he was attacking down south. Paul Holes said there is some indication that he got a job as a mechanic but he also heard he was working for P G & E, that when in was in the navy he was a diver and that his job at PG&E was pulling up sump pumps. So they way he related this indicates they do not know if this is true.



So…….all of this makes me wonder about Sharon. Why do they not know. I heard she was cooperating. If so, what is the mystery. One possibility is that she is not cooperating, but the other possibility is that Paul Holes is retired now and so he no longer has access to the current info on the case. I am guessing the latter.


Paige Kneeland said that Sharon may not have known but wondered how she didn’t question his absences.



Chief Willick said in the 70’s DeAngelo asked him to come over to his house and pointed out that he and the wife slept in different bedrooms that Willick thought was strange.



D’Ambrosia said the wife may have been desensitized to his behavior because her own father was a peeping Tom. (However, was he a peeping Tom only when he was a teen, or did he ever stop? He was arrested only once. I think when he was 18.)



Chief Willick made a very good point. He had a mustache! He had short hair that was balding. He didn’t look like any of the sketches.


HERE IS A QUESTION FOR THE CHIEF: I’d like to know if the whole time he worked for the Auburn PD he had a mustache or did he grow one after the Maggiori murders?


I was surprised how Detective Paige Kneeland pointed out the Maggiore sketch with the mustache as looking like him. In my opinion it doesn’t necessarily look like him only that he had a mustache. I always thought the mustache was one of two men who had been walking in the neighborhood but were cleared. I wish this info could be cleared up.


Comments about dogs reaction to someone who had previously sprayed the dog with dog repellent and that the dog would remember and not attack and run away from that person. I had a dog once that had been a stray. When the mailman came to the house my gentle little dog became a terrifying snarling, teeth baring beast that wanted to kill the mailman. I always assumed that at some point in the past my dog had been sprayed by a mailman with mace.



Victim #10 said at one point she lived 2 minutes from DeAngelo and it upsets her to know she probably shopped at the same shopping center.
  That is indeed so creepy!

I know I am lazy but just asking: is this on youtube or someplace you can see it with no tv?

[Agent99 aka Sandia]

EndofTheWorld, I don't think the new ones are, but can't say for sure. I think the old ones are on it. I just went to Youtube and entered "Unmasking a Killer", I see some as promos and others state whole episodes.

[magnumforce73]

Feb 19, 2019 7:47:30 GMT Agent99 aka Sandia said:

I'll start the ball rolling and include some of my notes, observations and questions:

The program made it clear they have “not” found his loot!!
  


They apparently do not know where he went after he was fired. They mention he purchased the home in Citrus Heights in 1980 but he was attacking down south. Paul Holes said there is some indication that he got a job as a mechanic but he also heard he was working for P G & E, that when in was in the navy he was a diver and that his job at PG&E was pulling up sump pumps. So they way he related this indicates they do not know if this is true.



So…….all of this makes me wonder about Sharon. Why do they not know. I heard she was cooperating. If so, what is the mystery. One possibility is that she is not cooperating, but the other possibility is that Paul Holes is retired now and so he no longer has access to the current info on the case. I am guessing the latter.


Paige Kneeland said that Sharon may not have known but wondered how she didn’t question his absences.



Chief Willick said in the 70’s DeAngelo asked him to come over to his house and pointed out that he and the wife slept in different bedrooms that Willick thought was strange.



D’Ambrosia said the wife may have been desensitized to his behavior because her own father was a peeping Tom. (However, was he a peeping Tom only when he was a teen, or did he ever stop? He was arrested only once. I think when he was 18.)



Chief Willick made a very good point. He had a mustache! He had short hair that was balding. He didn’t look like any of the sketches.


HERE IS A QUESTION FOR THE CHIEF: I’d like to know if the whole time he worked for the Auburn PD he had a mustache or did he grow one after the Maggiori murders?


I was surprised how Detective Paige Kneeland pointed out the Maggiore sketch with the mustache as looking like him. In my opinion it doesn’t necessarily look like him only that he had a mustache. I always thought the mustache was one of two men who had been walking in the neighborhood but were cleared. I wish this info could be cleared up.


Comments about dogs reaction to someone who had previously sprayed the dog with dog repellent and that the dog would remember and not attack and run away from that person. I had a dog once that had been a stray. When the mailman came to the house my gentle little dog became a terrifying snarling, teeth baring beast that wanted to kill the mailman. I always assumed that at some point in the past my dog had been sprayed by a mailman with mace.



Victim #10 said at one point she lived 2 minutes from DeAngelo and it upsets her to know she probably shopped at the same shopping center.
  That is indeed so creepy!

Re: Former Auburn Chief Willick--

He was much better prepared, and much better poised this time around for his "interviews."  I get the impression someone was actually trying to remember exactly what was done, what was said, and in what circles joey traveled.  The only thing in his recollections that I don't like is that he tends to go back and forth between one of two positions on the matter of joey: Willick either "does not remember him," or, Willick remembers him as "an ordinary officer without any significant arrests," or something to that effect.  One detail did stand out--Willick related the time he received a complaint from an Auburn citizen regarding joey and joey's refusal to recognize the personal space of others, and how he witnessed joey attempt to intimidate a citizen--picture a doughy J.J.D. circa 1976/77 poking his finger into a citizen's chest while out on a "service call," and the whole time, the citizen is being physically forced back by the ever forwarding and uniformed J.J.D.  This is something I can very much picture--sounds like a ski-masked pervert who loved to ambush people in their bedrooms.  I get that this was over forty years ago; what I don't get is why this wasn't viewed as a part of a larger pattern of undesirable behavior from an officer who was otherwise "unmemorable."  I'm still having a hard time believing joey kept on his mask of sanity--because between the quick temper and the raging over insignificant things, I am having a hard time seeing how this clown kept it reasonably together while he worked as a police officer--and moonlighted as a rapist and serial murderer.

99--don't think I didn't notice Dep. Kneeland's quick, almost in passing, reference to the sketch of the mustachioed Maggiore suspect and J.J.D. and the quick tie-in: "oh, it had to be him; he had a receding hairline and a mustache."  I'm still waiting to hear what kind of forensic evidence they have that conclusively proves joey shot the Maggiores dead--though I'll bet that doesn't happen until trial.  Yes, he looks good for it--but "looking good" for a murder isn't the same as actually and definitively pulling the trigger.  Questions! Questions!

mf73

[ElfinEars]

Thanks for your opinions on the show! It helps give those (me) who can't watch a brief recap.


So it seems nobody knows what JJD was doing for a living during the "lost years" yet he could afford to buy a house and his wife ,who is supposedly cooperating isn't filling them in otherwise ..interesting.
I can't help but assume his income source was criminal activity (i.e profiting from break-ins) and that ,if that is true,his wife may have looked the other way....at least in regards to how he brought money into the household.

[pod]

Feb 19, 2019 7:47:30 GMT Agent99 aka Sandia said:

Paige Kneeland said that Sharon may not have known but wondered how she didn’t question his absences.


I was surprised how Detective Paige Kneeland pointed out the Maggiore sketch with the mustache as looking like him. In my opinion it doesn’t necessarily look like him only that he had a mustache. I always thought the mustache was one of two men who had been walking in the neighborhood but were cleared.  I wish this info could be cleared up.

Like ElfinEars I haven't seen the programme yet (I'm in the UK) so many thanks for taking the time to summarize its content.

Thinking out loud, and given what's been said about their marriage so far, I've often wondered if Sharon believed DeAngelo was having an affair, or multiple affairs over time. Perhaps DeAngelo even fostered the idea himself, given he could use it to explain away all his absences and even any odd behaviour.

As to the Maggiore composite, I still believe Ken Clark in the interview below, when he says there was only one offender. The two individuals in the young girl's composite were cleared.

player.fm/series/series-2409410/s2-ep7-the-air-force-couple

The relevant part begins around the one hour mark. 01:03:40

[slim]

The neighbor stuff was pretty good too. DeAngelos neighbors talked about living next to him for all these years. They played with his kids growing up. Seemed normal at times other times not so normal. Would get angry and yell at wife, kids. But DeAngelo left a threatening message one time on neighbors phone. No caller ID or way to identify who did it but neighbors knew it was DeAngelos voice. So dad got ticked off and went out to backyard fence and started yelling for DeAngelo to come outside. I dont remember if he came out or not, I think he didn't? But Same dad wasn't afraid to yell at DeAngelo to knock it off or shut up over the years when he could hear him talking to himself in his backyard. DeAngelo most likely was terrified of this neighbor dad the way it sounds, ha. The dad thought DeAngelo was a coward.

[walter]

Feb 19, 2019 14:36:35 GMT slim said:

The neighbor stuff was pretty good too. DeAngelos neighbors talked about living next to him for all these years. They played with his kids growing up. Seemed normal at times other times not so normal. Would get angry and yell at wife, kids. But DeAngelo left a threatening message one time on neighbors phone. No caller ID or way to identify who did it but neighbors knew it was DeAngelos voice. So dad got ticked off and went out to backyard fence and started yelling for DeAngelo to come outside. I dont remember if he came out or not, I think he didn't? But Same dad wasn't afraid to yell at DeAngelo to knock it off or shut up over the years when he could hear him talking to himself in his backyard. DeAngelo most likely was terrified of this neighbor dad the way it sounds, ha. The dad thought DeAngelo was a coward.

He did come out - that was the point of the story.  He admitted he left the message and the father was so angry he tried to fight him and Deangelo backed away and had no interest in the confrontation.  The son suggested Deangelo didn't have much confidence when confronting men but was quick to yell at and try to intimidate women/children.

[imagigator]

JJD was likely just careful to not get into a confrontation that would put him in the eye of LE.

[jaguar]

Feb 19, 2019 15:01:25 GMT imagigator said:

JJD was likely just careful to not get into a confrontation that would put him in the eye of LE.

I think that is an excellent point. Any conviction for a felony, such as assault and battery, would have gotten his DNA added to the California database, and he would have been done for.

[f1guyus]

Feb 19, 2019 15:01:25 GMT imagigator said:

JJD was likely just careful to not get into a confrontation that would put him in the eye of LE.

This. And an arrest for a felony would have done the same thing. 

[walter]

Feb 19, 2019 15:01:25 GMT imagigator said:

JJD was likely just careful to not get into a confrontation that would put him in the eye of LE.

Possibly - but if you are implying he wasn't worried about men, but just about getting into a confrontation that would put him in the eye of the police, it doesn't seem to line up with his actual actions.

He threatened to bring death to a family - he left this voicemail on the machine and admitted to it - the police could have easily been called

He occasionally screamed at and his wife and daughters (and scared other children) - someone could have easily called the police for a domestic issue

He would park out in front of Sharon's apartment after the split and scream at her while neighbors threatened to call the cops (he did this multiple times) - obviously he didn't care

The only times he seemed to back down were when a man confronted him.

[Deleted]

Feb 19, 2019 7:47:30 GMT Agent99 aka Sandia said:

I wonder if it's they haven't found some of the items or if they just simply cannot say. Maybe they've found some and not others? I would probably lean towards your theory though that they haven't found any because of something Holes said about 'if the arrest had been made 10 years before (prior to the renewed media interest) he may have still had everything in his possession' (paraphrasing).

Having only viewed it once I'm strictly going from memory but my recollection of Paige Kneeland's comments about the Maggiore sketch was that he did not attack again in Sacramento after the Maggiore sketch was publicized. The inference would being that it scared him away because it looked like him. The way that moment was edited would have one think she was referring to the mustache sketch, in comparison to the summer 1979 DeAngelo baseball photo. However, I don't think she explicitly said it was the mustache sketch. I need to watch it again.

I still crack up every time him shoplifting dog repellent is brought up so matter-of-factly; just the absurdity of it. 

FYI, in case anyone is into the podcast thing, the producers of Unmasking a Killer have done new episodes of their podcast series in conjunction with Season 2.

So far, they have posted two:

• Identification Of A Killer - Investigative Genealogy and DNA
• Timeline Of A Killer - Building The Case Against Joseph James DeAngelo

[riverstorum]

Feb 19, 2019 11:02:52 GMT ElfinEars said:

Thanks for your opinions on the show! It helps give those (me) who can't watch a brief recap.


So it seems nobody knows what JJD was doing for a living during the "lost years" yet he could afford to buy a house and his wife ,who is supposedly cooperating isn't filling them in otherwise ..interesting.
I can't help but assume his income source was criminal activity (i.e profiting from break-ins) and that ,if that is true,his wife may have looked the other way....at least in regards to how he brought money into the household.

Yeah, sorry folks but if his family members (siblings and wife especially) were actually cooperating and concerned about the victims, there would NOT still be this many holes in the JJD timeline for LE.

[Agent99 aka Sandia]

Feb 19, 2019 10:16:56 GMT magnumforce73 said:

Feb 19, 2019 7:47:30 GMT Agent99 aka Sandia said:

I'll start the ball rolling and include some of my notes, observations and questions:

The program made it clear they have “not” found his loot!!
  


They apparently do not know where he went after he was fired. They mention he purchased the home in Citrus Heights in 1980 but he was attacking down south. Paul Holes said there is some indication that he got a job as a mechanic but he also heard he was working for P G & E, that when in was in the navy he was a diver and that his job at PG&E was pulling up sump pumps. So they way he related this indicates they do not know if this is true.



So…….all of this makes me wonder about Sharon. Why do they not know. I heard she was cooperating. If so, what is the mystery. One possibility is that she is not cooperating, but the other possibility is that Paul Holes is retired now and so he no longer has access to the current info on the case. I am guessing the latter.


Paige Kneeland said that Sharon may not have known but wondered how she didn’t question his absences.



Chief Willick said in the 70’s DeAngelo asked him to come over to his house and pointed out that he and the wife slept in different bedrooms that Willick thought was strange.



D’Ambrosia said the wife may have been desensitized to his behavior because her own father was a peeping Tom. (However, was he a peeping Tom only when he was a teen, or did he ever stop? He was arrested only once. I think when he was 18.)



Chief Willick made a very good point. He had a mustache! He had short hair that was balding. He didn’t look like any of the sketches.


HERE IS A QUESTION FOR THE CHIEF: I’d like to know if the whole time he worked for the Auburn PD he had a mustache or did he grow one after the Maggiori murders?


I was surprised how Detective Paige Kneeland pointed out the Maggiore sketch with the mustache as looking like him. In my opinion it doesn’t necessarily look like him only that he had a mustache. I always thought the mustache was one of two men who had been walking in the neighborhood but were cleared. I wish this info could be cleared up.


Comments about dogs reaction to someone who had previously sprayed the dog with dog repellent and that the dog would remember and not attack and run away from that person. I had a dog once that had been a stray. When the mailman came to the house my gentle little dog became a terrifying snarling, teeth baring beast that wanted to kill the mailman. I always assumed that at some point in the past my dog had been sprayed by a mailman with mace.



Victim #10 said at one point she lived 2 minutes from DeAngelo and it upsets her to know she probably shopped at the same shopping center.
  That is indeed so creepy!

Re: Former Auburn Chief Willick--

He was much better prepared, and much better poised this time around for his "interviews."  I get the impression someone was actually trying to remember exactly what was done, what was said, and in what circles joey traveled.  The only thing in his recollections that I don't like is that he tends to go back and forth between one of two positions on the matter of joey: Willick either "does not remember him," or, Willick remembers him as "an ordinary officer without any significant arrests," or something to that effect.  One detail did stand out--Willick related the time he received a complaint from an Auburn citizen regarding joey and joey's refusal to recognize the personal space of others, and how he witnessed joey attempt to intimidate a citizen--picture a doughy J.J.D. circa 1976/77 poking his finger into a citizen's chest while out on a "service call," and the whole time, the citizen is being physically forced back by the ever forwarding and uniformed J.J.D.  This is something I can very much picture--sounds like a ski-masked pervert who loved to ambush people in their bedrooms.  I get that this was over forty years ago; what I don't get is why this wasn't viewed as a part of a larger pattern of undesirable behavior from an officer who was otherwise "unmemorable."  I'm still having a hard time believing joey kept on his mask of sanity--because between the quick temper and the raging over insignificant things, I am having a hard time seeing how this clown kept it reasonably together while he worked as a police officer--and moonlighted as a rapist and serial murderer.

99--don't think I didn't notice Dep. Kneeland's quick, almost in passing, reference to the sketch of the mustachioed Maggiore suspect and J.J.D. and the quick tie-in: "oh, it had to be him; he had a receding hairline and a mustache."  I'm still waiting to hear what kind of forensic evidence they have that conclusively proves joey shot the Maggiores dead--though I'll bet that doesn't happen until trial.  Yes, he looks good for it--but "looking good" for a murder isn't the same as actually and definitively pulling the trigger.  Questions! Questions!

mf73

I didn't go into my observations/opinions on Chief Willick, but I agree with you.  One thing that gets a suspect into trouble is changing their story.  Well, I've noticed the chief of police changing his story quite a few times.  It isn't that he's a criminal or a bad guy of course, I just think he has been under fire for not realizing he had the EAR working for him as a cop. 

(Reasons for criticism: 
1) Was he the one that hired DeAngelo?  If not and he inherited him then he might not have known he had been a cop in Exeter next to Visalia but if he hired him.....
2)  Once DeAngelo was caught shoplifting he knew he had a criminal cop on his hands.  
3) stole a hammer and dog repellent, hello! 
4)  He was told by DeAngelo's court appointed psychiatrist that DeAngelo told the psychiatrist that he had gone out to kill the chief but didn't know what bedroom he slept in.  HELLO! (DeAngelo told a psychiatrist? incredible!)
5)  The chief's daughter told him she was awakened by someone shining a flashlight in her bedroom and the chief when he investigated saw shoe prints under her window and around the periphery of the house. COME ON!)

Now to the changing story: 
1) In one interview that he said the daughter woke him up.  Next interview he discovered the daughter asleep on the floor of his room. 
2) In one interview he said that Joe invaded his space and touched him (so not in a threatening way, I'm picturing over friendly and one of those space invader type of people) So the chief told him to back up and be more professional and to stop doing that.  He said Joe had hurt feelings and pouted like a child.  Second version in this latest UAK episode, the chief heard Joe was responding to a call at a gas station, so since he was in the area he went over to observe Joe and saw the touching and space invasion again and the person he was talking to kept backing up.  The chief had to tell him to be more professional and to stop doing that and Joe was hurt and pouted and it was almost like a parent/child reaction. 

(Well, to be fair this touching incident might not be a change in story although until this moment I thought it was.  It could be that Joe had to be told several times?) 

Mf73, I wonder if your take on it is correct.  Until you mentioned that he was poking the person in the chest and the person was backing up, I didn't see it as aggressive, but overly friendly.  Did the chief  change the story because this second version is the correct one and was another indication of a problematic, aggressive cop?   If your mental image of what happened at the gas station is correct and he wasn't just being inappropriately friendly and touching someone's shoulder or arm but instead as you say, poking aggressively, then he didn't do it just that one time.  Small point but a really interesting one.

To be fair to the chief, when Joe was caught shoplifting, he was immediately fired.  The chief didn't try to sweep it under the rug and make excuses.  He took swift and appropriate action.  The chief made excellent points that none of the sketches of the EAR had a mustache and had longer hair.  Joe had short hair and a mustache.  (My question remains though, when did he sport the mustache?  He is not wearing one in his Exeter PD photo.  Did he grow it to change his appearance from all the sketches?  The chief couldn't believe a cop in Auburn, on duty would be able to spend so much time so far away, including Modesto and Contra Costa County and even San Jose.