JJD’s friends, coworkers, victims + LE speak

[cleopatra]

Feb 26, 2019 1:32:42 GMT Captain said:

Feb 26, 2019 0:53:04 GMT Horizon said:

You didn't read my post, did you? Mask, flash light and beaming that into the bedroom. Further to that, if the Chief ever checked, which I believe he certainly did, he would have found a size 9 or 9.5 tennis shoe imprints close to the window or in the yard.



Cops, like most, neither should be immune to criticism nor should be unassailable for reviews. Police institutions, like most establishments that exist in the society, are imperfect and are a work in progress. Its a fact and that doesn't require your or some Richie Cunningham's approval



Your post is a jumbled mess, it can be easily picked apart but I won't bother to go through it all. You seem to come down here and act like a stern headmaster. I won't give two figs about that. Just a waste of your own time. I will question Pope if I think he is wrong

Once again, stalking someone over a personal vendetta doesn't automatically equate to being a rapist and murderer especially when the EAR series were seemingly random stranger-on-stranger crimes. In hindsight, it makes my sense, sure. Anyone can connect the dots once you have the final piece to the puzzle. No one is debating that. My issue with your thoughts on the matter is there has to be a something that ties JJD to being EAR beyond an act done out of anger against a former employer which has zero to do with anything remotely related to rape and murder of strangers. Completely different motivation, victim profile etc. If one of my employees pulled that on me over a work issue, I wouldn't say "Jeeze, he had a mask and a flash light so he must be the sexual sadist responsible for the crimes in the city 35 minutes away".

Now, was there any sexual harrassment or anything remotely sexual involving JJD known to Willick? Was JJD caught creeping around people's homes in the areas of the EAR attacks that Willick knew about? Was JJD caught out prowling neighborhoods late at night for some unknown reason in the EAR strike zones? You know, anything that could actually be related to the EAR crimes.

Anyone can connect the dots once you have the final piece to the puzzle. 

LE is supposed to connect the dots to solve the puzzle. 

Willick had a lot of puzzle pieces.  He should have turned them in.  

[Captain]

Feb 26, 2019 2:06:26 GMT cleopatra said:

Feb 26, 2019 1:32:42 GMT Captain said:

Once again, stalking someone over a personal vendetta doesn't automatically equate to being a rapist and murderer especially when the EAR series were seemingly random stranger-on-stranger crimes. In hindsight, it makes my sense, sure. Anyone can connect the dots once you have the final piece to the puzzle. No one is debating that. My issue with your thoughts on the matter is there has to be a something that ties JJD to being EAR beyond an act done out of anger against a former employer which has zero to do with anything remotely related to rape and murder of strangers. Completely different motivation, victim profile etc. If one of my employees pulled that on me over a work issue, I wouldn't say "Jeeze, he had a mask and a flash light so he must be the sexual sadist responsible for the crimes in the city 35 minutes away".

Now, was there any sexual harrassment or anything remotely sexual involving JJD known to Willick? Was JJD caught creeping around people's homes in the areas of the EAR attacks that Willick knew about? Was JJD caught out prowling neighborhoods late at night for some unknown reason in the EAR strike zones? You know, anything that could actually be related to the EAR crimes.

Anyone can connect the dots once you have the final piece to the puzzle. 

LE is supposed to connect the dots to solve the puzzle. 

Willick had a lot of puzzle pieces.  He should have turned them in.  

&, LE did solve the puzzle.

As far as Willick goes, if you don't know you have pieces to a puzzle how are you supposed to know what to do with them?

Furthermore, why is Willick anymore responsible for JJD than anyone else? Clearly, everyone missed the signs so why are we singling out 1 man? Why Willick protect JJD or ignore the signs? Willick had plenty of motive to turn JJD in if he suspected he was EAR. The fact he didn't is evidence he did not see things as clear cut then as we do now 40 years later. It's like everyone is looking for a second villain in this story. Willick isn't the gate keeper who allowed the monster to roam free. First it was Sac LE brass, then Sharon and now it's Willick. Sure, let's put the blame on everyone & everything but the person ultimately responsible.

[rgnnbld]

Feb 25, 2019 23:44:42 GMT dogs said:

Feb 25, 2019 22:53:01 GMT rgnnbld said:

I agree it was JJD he confirms information we know about JJD post-arrest which nobody could've predicted and also muddys the waters with tons of weird/mis-information..........similar to what he did in attacks. 

Really? How creepy. Can you give me an example of what you are talking about? Not that I don't believe you, but I'd like to read it myself.

I went to the search function, searched for all the posts by user: ketchnrelease

I'm not attempting to be snide or dismissive, but my intention isn't really to talk about the points, but yeah; I do think ketchnrelease was JJD. 

I could be wrong. Regardless, enjoy reading. 

[trabuco]

Feb 25, 2019 20:11:43 GMT walter said:

Feb 25, 2019 20:03:30 GMT nick said:

The adding of a psychological test to those applying to be LE officers in California was one of those things that took time to take hold and become a part of every agency in the state. The way it came about was when POST (Peace Officers Standards and Training the state agency tasked with making sure every sworn officer met the same standards across the board and met the minimum standards as well) decided to make it a requirement because of some agencies in Southern Califonia had been requiring it on their own and it was becoming more popular. Larger agencies had more funding of course and could afford to implement the examination while smaller agencies had less money and resources and therefore they came over it slower than the large ones.

I can not speak for the Auburn PD situation I just wanted to put it out there as a common thing that was just taking hold in that time frame as a whole in the entire state. The lack of funds for smaller agencies could explain it as a coincident in regards to the timing of it being required for all new hires at Auburn PD and also when an officer laterals in from another agency into a smaller department the Chief could save money by not requiring it since they are already a working sworn Officer.

Hi Nick, thanks for the further info. Generally instituting something like that is a very slow moving process that requires an AWFUL lot of negotiations among many different jurisdictions and levels of individuals.  I am fairly certain it was in the works far before JJD's firing (and may have already existed and beenr equired before he was fired).

Trabuco - I took a look at that guy's old posts under the name of trickofthetail and it was pretty weird.  Still reading them but I keep getting lost in these 5-6 year old posts and theories back then.

It's like Denzel said about the newspaper in movie 'Training Day.'

"it's 90% bullshi** but it's entertaining."

That's how I see it anyway.

[Captain]

Feb 26, 2019 2:45:52 GMT trabuco said:

Feb 25, 2019 20:11:43 GMT walter said:

Hi Nick, thanks for the further info. Generally instituting something like that is a very slow moving process that requires an AWFUL lot of negotiations among many different jurisdictions and levels of individuals.  I am fairly certain it was in the works far before JJD's firing (and may have already existed and beenr equired before he was fired).

Trabuco - I took a look at that guy's old posts under the name of trickofthetail and it was pretty weird.  Still reading them but I keep getting lost in these 5-6 year old posts and theories back then.

It's like Denzel said about the newspaper in movie 'Training Day.'

"it's 90% bullshi** but it's entertaining."

That's how I see it anyway.

Training Day never gets old. It's a classic

[cleopatra]

Feb 26, 2019 2:39:42 GMT Captain said:

Feb 26, 2019 2:06:26 GMT cleopatra said:

Anyone can connect the dots once you have the final piece to the puzzle. 

LE is supposed to connect the dots to solve the puzzle. 

Willick had a lot of puzzle pieces.  He should have turned them in.  

&, LE did solve the puzzle.

As far as Willick goes, if you don't know you have pieces to a puzzle how are you supposed to know what to do with them?

Furthermore, why is Willick anymore responsible for JJD than anyone else? Clearly, everyone missed the signs so why are we singling out 1 man? It's like everyone is looking for a second villain in this story. Willick isn't the gate keeper who allowed the monster to roam free. First it was Sac LE brass, then Sharon and now it's Willick. Sure, let's put the blame on everyone & everything but the person ultimately responsible.

If puzzle pieces of a crime such as the EAR's was under my roof I'd have recognized them.

The only one responsible for JJD committing his heinous acts is him.  JJD is the only villain in this story.

Speaking for myself, I wasn't singling out Willick.  I was expressing my feelings and personal opinions of his failures.

[trabuco]

Feb 26, 2019 2:06:26 GMT cleopatra said:

Feb 26, 2019 1:32:42 GMT Captain said:

Once again, stalking someone over a personal vendetta doesn't automatically equate to being a rapist and murderer especially when the EAR series were seemingly random stranger-on-stranger crimes. In hindsight, it makes my sense, sure. Anyone can connect the dots once you have the final piece to the puzzle. No one is debating that. My issue with your thoughts on the matter is there has to be a something that ties JJD to being EAR beyond an act done out of anger against a former employer which has zero to do with anything remotely related to rape and murder of strangers. Completely different motivation, victim profile etc. If one of my employees pulled that on me over a work issue, I wouldn't say "Jeeze, he had a mask and a flash light so he must be the sexual sadist responsible for the crimes in the city 35 minutes away".

Now, was there any sexual harrassment or anything remotely sexual involving JJD known to Willick? Was JJD caught creeping around people's homes in the areas of the EAR attacks that Willick knew about? Was JJD caught out prowling neighborhoods late at night for some unknown reason in the EAR strike zones? You know, anything that could actually be related to the EAR crimes.

Anyone can connect the dots once you have the final piece to the puzzle. 

LE is supposed to connect the dots to solve the puzzle. 

Willick had a lot of puzzle pieces.  He should have turned them in.  

Many crime cases have been solved "On a hunch."

I'm not blaming Willick because even Sacramento LE who prosecuted JJD for the shoplifting never put two and two together.

I can't really say I blame anyone. I do like to see LE having exhausted all of their leads go out on a limb "on a hunch" and keep the investigation moving forward. But I understand that LE is much like the Military. You follow orders.

[Captain]

Feb 26, 2019 2:53:35 GMT cleopatra said:

Feb 26, 2019 2:39:42 GMT Captain said:

&, LE did solve the puzzle.

As far as Willick goes, if you don't know you have pieces to a puzzle how are you supposed to know what to do with them?

Furthermore, why is Willick anymore responsible for JJD than anyone else? Clearly, everyone missed the signs so why are we singling out 1 man? It's like everyone is looking for a second villain in this story. Willick isn't the gate keeper who allowed the monster to roam free. First it was Sac LE brass, then Sharon and now it's Willick. Sure, let's put the blame on everyone & everything but the person ultimately responsible.

If puzzle pieces of a crime such as the EAR's was under my roof I'd have recognized them.

The only one responsible for JJD committing his heinous acts is him.  JJD is the only villain in this story.

Speaking for myself, I wasn't singling out Willick.  I was expressing my feelings and personal opinions of his failures.

You assume you would recognize them. You do not know that for a fact. Once again, you haven't walked in his shoes. You weren't in his position at that time. You know WAY more now than he did then. We would all like to think we would've done a better job but none of us here have been in that position so who are we to pass judgement?

Besides, Willick had a TON of motive to turn JJD in. If JJD being EAR was that obvious, why would he pass up the chance to get one over on JJD and be the hero? He was already a Chief which means he was a dedicated & competent officer. You don't think catching the EAR would have boosted his standing in the LE field even more? The fact he wasn't able to make that connection tells me the signs were not that obvious.

I think it's also noteworthy to point out that every time a serial is caught, those closest to them are initially shocked at the revelation but as they reflect back on the past, signs & clues that were initially overlooked come to the forefront. This phenomenon isn't unique to Willick.

[elir]

Feb 26, 2019 2:53:35 GMT cleopatra said:

Feb 26, 2019 2:39:42 GMT Captain said:

&, LE did solve the puzzle.

As far as Willick goes, if you don't know you have pieces to a puzzle how are you supposed to know what to do with them?

Furthermore, why is Willick anymore responsible for JJD than anyone else? Clearly, everyone missed the signs so why are we singling out 1 man? It's like everyone is looking for a second villain in this story. Willick isn't the gate keeper who allowed the monster to roam free. First it was Sac LE brass, then Sharon and now it's Willick. Sure, let's put the blame on everyone & everything but the person ultimately responsible.

If puzzle pieces of a crime such as the EAR's was under my roof I'd have recognized them.

The only one responsible for JJD committing his heinous acts is him.  JJD is the only villain in this story.

Speaking for myself, I wasn't singling out Willick.  I was expressing my feelings and personal opinions of his failures.

Opinions in which you excoriate Willick , someone that has been honest in relating his experience, while you extoll your own sleuthing skills .
If you want to blame someone what about the prosecutor for JJDs shoplifting case - why didn’t he investigate this law breaking cop more, get a warrant to search his home for more stolen goods ? He might have found souvenirs from the ransacking or assaults. Why didn’t the prosecutor look at this guy and his record and wonder if there was more going on ?

Everybody needs to blowoff steam and rant sometimes but repeatedly pointing fingers , exaggerating claims and spouting off how your superior abilities would have identified the suspect neither changes what happened nor does it go towards preventing something similar from happening again.

Apply your skills to do an analysis that identifies gaps that led to JJD slipping through the cracks back both then and over the years , and identify achieveable goals that might decrease the chance that this could happen again.

Please take into account the power, interests , and incentive to change for all stakeholders, federal, state, county and municipal actors, police unions , civil society , the media, taking into account funding availability. Then consider how to achieve your goals given the sometimes conflicting interests of the various parties.

[trabuco]

Even if Willick had given Detective Shelby JJD's name I don't think Shelby would have considered JJD as the EAR. The EAR that Shelby was looking for was not stupid enough to get caught shoplifting. Too careless. I can only speculate but I probably would have taken the same position as Shelby did. In hindsight the mistakes often made are in deciding on who you are looking for and who you are not looking for. JJD being a playa only complicated matters. This is just my opinion.

[dougguard]

THE HOUSEKEEPERS STORY IS HEARTBREAKING. MAKES ME WANT TO EMPLOY MY ORIGINAL PLAN. RENT A RYDER TRUCK AND ON THE ROOF HAVE A GIANT PLACARD THAT READS "KILL HIM" AND PARK AT DIFFERENT LOCATIONS NEAR THE SAC COUNTY JAIL SO THE INMATES CAN SEE IT.

GOOD PLAN MABE?

[cleopatra]

Feb 26, 2019 3:38:03 GMT elir said:

Feb 26, 2019 2:53:35 GMT cleopatra said:

If puzzle pieces of a crime such as the EAR's was under my roof I'd have recognized them.

The only one responsible for JJD committing his heinous acts is him.  JJD is the only villain in this story.

Speaking for myself, I wasn't singling out Willick.  I was expressing my feelings and personal opinions of his failures.

Opinions in which you excoriate Willick , someone that has been honest in relating his experience, while you extoll your own sleuthing skills .
If you want to blame someone what about the prosecutor for JJDs shoplifting case - why didn’t he investigate this law breaking cop more, get a warrant to search his home for more stolen goods ? He might have found souvenirs from the ransacking or assaults. Why didn’t the prosecutor look at this guy and his record and wonder if there was more going on ?

Everybody needs to blowoff steam and rant sometimes but repeatedly pointing fingers , exaggerating claims and spouting off how your superior abilities would have identified the suspect neither changes what happened nor does it go towards preventing something similar from happening again.

Apply your skills to do an analysis that identifies gaps that led to JJD slipping through the cracks back both then and over the years , and identify achieveable goals that might decrease the chance that this could happen again.

Please take into account the power, interests , and incentive to change for all stakeholders, federal, state, county and municipal actors, police unions , civil society , the media, taking into account funding availability. Then consider how to achieve your goals given the sometimes conflicting interests of the various parties.

Hopefully, it will prevent something similar from happening again.  

I'm not blowing off steam or pointing fingers.  I already mentioned who I was pointing my finger to, who was to the only responsible party - Deangelo.  I also have not claimed I have superior abilities or would have identified the suspect.  Only that I would have been aware and I would have noticed those things that the chief did not notice.  And I would have turned in a name, based on a "possibility", because I would have rather been safe than sorry.  

I merely responded to this thread laying out my own personal opinions on Willick.  

I respect your thoughts and opinions on the subject.  I respect other's, as well.  I may not agree with other's opinions, but I respect them, nevertheless.  
     

[trabuco]

Feb 26, 2019 4:16:13 GMT dougguard said:

THE HOUSEKEEPERS STORY IS HEARTBREAKING. MAKES ME WANT TO EMPLOY MY ORIGINAL PLAN. RENT A RYDER TRUCK AND ON THE ROOF HAVE A GIANT PLACARD THAT READS "KILL HIM" AND PARK AT DIFFERENT LOCATIONS NEAR THE SAC COUNTY JAIL SO THE INMATES CAN SEE IT.

GOOD PLAN MABE?

What a devious mind you have. Like a subliminal message except not hidden but in plain sight.

Not exactly but sort of like that one episode of 'X-files' titled 'Blood.'

This is what comes to my mind anyway.

[Captain]

Feb 26, 2019 4:03:11 GMT trabuco said:

Even if Willick had given Detective Shelby JJD's name I don't think Shelby would have considered JJD as the EAR. The EAR that Shelby was looking for was not stupid enough to get caught shoplifting. Too careless. I can only speculate but I probably would have taken the same position as Shelby did. In hindsight the mistakes often made are in deciding on who you are looking for and who you are not looking for. JJD being a playa only complicated matters. This is just my opinion.

In all reality, I am still baffled by JJD shoplifting. It doesn't make sense when you consider how careful he was in virtually every other regard and the shoplifting incident happened after he had been committing the EAR crimes for a long time. If it had happened at the beginning of his crime spree you could chalk it up as a rookie mistake but he was past that point. It reminds me of Israel Keyes and him having a seemingly flawless series of crimes only to go off the rails towards the end.

[riverstorum]

Robert Durst was arrested for stealing a sandwich from a gas station and had 50k in his trunk. When you believe the fix is in for you because it always has been then of course youll do whatever petty thing you feel like doing.