2017 Convicted Rapist of Minor

[Agent99 aka Sandia]

Dec 23, 2020 13:47:34 GMT cleopatra said:

Mar 1, 2020 21:42:22 GMT Agent99 aka Sandia said:

I agree, Pod!  I'm thinking he might have thought the area was more secluded than it was.  He might have been there before when nobody was around.  He could have been spotted by others that were in the area near that time.  Teens hung out in that area, did he not know that?  or is that what brought him there.  I think the former because he needed no witnesses.  Also without the leaves on the trees visibility is good.  Pod Caster Anthony Greeno did a voice test and voices travel far there!  There is a road that goes to the homes on the far side of the bridge.   I think I heard that the son of one of the home owners came home close to the time the girls were murdered.  There was a girl, 'Cheyenne or Shay Anne?" on the bridge that took pictures.  When Libby's father asked flannel shirt guy if he saw anyone.  He said there was a couple, man and woman I believe, under the bridge.   It appears that this villain was just lucky.

I've been thinking that the girls made a break for it and he had another destination in mind.  I've been thinking the shack that is further up the creek, near the creek and in the woods.  Anthony Greeno says that he doesn't believe that would have been possible...not possible to reach the shack by walking in or along side the creek or through the woods and he would have been spotted by homeowners if walking along the private road.  I wonder if he's right about not being able to walk through the woods.  He is local though and has been to the area,  but still I wonder.  What if the girls made a break for it and he had to chase them across the creek where he caught them and killed them.  I think they were not raped but was that his intention that got thwarted?  In February the water would have been very cold, it had been snowing a day or so before and the water I would imagine would have been deeper than in other seasons.

Greeno points out that blue jeans  don't  appear wet, just darker but if the creek was deeper, BG probably would have gotten his jacket and sleeves wet too. Did flannel shirt guy who passed right by BG not notice the guy was muddy or wet? how about his shoes?  Clothes even smell wet and sound wet too when material is rubbing together so maybe Anthony is right about not appearing wet.

Agent99,

Are you saying they were not raped?  I thought they were raped.

This case is so sad because one of the girls took a video of the guy with her phone, and she cleverly left her phone on to record their attack , yet the pero remains unidentified.  

cleo

Hi Cleo and Merry Christmas,  I'm starting to forget some things but if my memory serves me neither girls was  raped yet Libby was nude.  I'm thinking that removing the clothes was more to remove evidence (dna, blood etc.) But they never found the clothes! She was partially covered with leaves and she got the worst of it by far and was nearly decapitated.  A suspect a lot of people have in mind is Garett Kirts who is presently in jail for two murders and torture.  He was familiar with the area, bragged about running across the bridge when drunk, visiting Ron Logan with his father and taking an ATV down a trail from Logan's property and riding down by the creek but further down the creek, not where the girls were.  One of the people he tortured and murdered was his ex-girlfriend either because he heard she was going to the authorities about a previous murder or to appease his jealous girlfriend at the time, Ashley Garth.  So Kirts is an admitted murderer/torturer that was very familiar with the bridge and the property.  I've heard rumors and so take it with a grain of salt that Libby's father, Derrick German, who was involved in that drug culture was responsible for getting Ashley's children taken away from her.  So some think that killing Derrick's daughter was a Valentine's present for his girlfriend Ashley Garth (also in prison for murder).  I can see that Garret looks like both sketches kind of but the big problem is that he was only 18 at the time of the murders and that video of the killer walking on the bridge looks much older to me.  

It is astounding that with the voice recording and the video and I would think there would be DNA that he has not been caught.  However, since he has not been, I'm thinking there is no usable DNA. 


That brings me to flannel shirt guy that said he saw the supposed killer leaving the area.   At this point he no longer was dressed the same as the picture on the bridge.  I've got to find notes to find out exactly what was the difference but don't have time to do so now.  I'm thinking he no longer had on the jacket?  Anyway if not, where was the jacket, where was Libby's clothes, why wasn't he wet and full of blood? 


I'd like to know exactly where the two different sketches came from.  I've heard that a home owner saw Bridge Guy (BG) on the side of the bridge where the girls were abducted but some time before the crimes.  Then there was a woman who stopped to assist a young man waiting by a car (I think at the abandoned Child Protective Services building), and then there was flannel shirt guy that saw the supposed killer on the trail leaving the area after the murders.


The woman at the car said he needed no help and that he was waiting for his father.  (I think she mentioned he wouldn't look at her or wouldn't look her in the eye, not sure.)  So mentioning he was waiting for his dad makes me think this is where the sketch of the younger guy comes from.


Was this targeted revenge.  Were two people involved?  Was the young guy a get away car driver?  Was this just a coincidence and has nothing to do with the crime and was he really waiting for his dad?


I'd like to know the description flannel shirt guy gave.  I just know the clothes were different (no jacket? or more?)  Could this not have been the killer after all.  Did the killer escape by walking up the creek and leaving on the trail Garret Kirts knew was there leading up to the back of Ron Logan's property.  Ron Logan was not home we know because he got in trouble for driving out of town on a suspended license.  

I have information to clarify some of these things in notes somewhere but a lot I do not know and really wish that LE would clarify things, specifically more detail on what the witnesses saw.



 

[cleopatra]

Dec 24, 2020 19:11:28 GMT Agent99 aka Sandia said:

Dec 23, 2020 13:47:34 GMT cleopatra said:

Agent99,

Are you saying they were not raped?  I thought they were raped.

This case is so sad because one of the girls took a video of the guy with her phone, and she cleverly left her phone on to record their attack , yet the pero remains unidentified.  

cleo

Hi Cleo and Merry Christmas,  I'm starting to forget some things but if my memory serves me neither girls was  raped yet Libby was nude.  I'm thinking that removing the clothes was more to remove evidence (dna, blood etc.) But they never found the clothes! She was partially covered with leaves and she got the worst of it by far and was nearly decapitated.  A suspect a lot of people have in mind is Garett Kirts who is presently in jail for two murders and torture.  He was familiar with the area, bragged about running across the bridge when drunk, visiting Ron Logan with his father and taking an ATV down a trail from Logan's property and riding down by the creek but further down the creek, not where the girls were.  One of the people he tortured and murdered was his ex-girlfriend either because he heard she was going to the authorities about a previous murder or to appease his jealous girlfriend at the time, Ashley Garth.  So Kirts is an admitted murderer/torturer that was very familiar with the bridge and the property.  I've heard rumors and so take it with a grain of salt that Libby's father, Derrick German, who was involved in that drug culture was responsible for getting Ashley's children taken away from her.  So some think that killing Derrick's daughter was a Valentine's present for his girlfriend Ashley Garth (also in prison for murder).  I can see that Garret looks like both sketches kind of but the big problem is that he was only 18 at the time of the murders and that video of the killer walking on the bridge looks much older to me.  

It is astounding that with the voice recording and the video and I would think there would be DNA that he has not been caught.  However, since he has not been, I'm thinking there is no usable DNA. 


That brings me to flannel shirt guy that said he saw the supposed killer leaving the area.   At this point he no longer was dressed the same as the picture on the bridge.  I've got to find notes to find out exactly what was the difference but don't have time to do so now.  I'm thinking he no longer had on the jacket?  Anyway if not, where was the jacket, where was Libby's clothes, why wasn't he wet and full of blood? 


I'd like to know exactly where the two different sketches came from.  I've heard that a home owner saw Bridge Guy (BG) on the side of the bridge where the girls were abducted but some time before the crimes.  Then there was a woman who stopped to assist a young man waiting by a car (I think at the abandoned Child Protective Services building), and then there was flannel shirt guy that saw the supposed killer on the trail leaving the area after the murders.


The woman at the car said he needed no help and that he was waiting for his father.  (I think she mentioned he wouldn't look at her or wouldn't look her in the eye, not sure.)  So mentioning he was waiting for his dad makes me think this is where the sketch of the younger guy comes from.


Was this targeted revenge.  Were two people involved?  Was the young guy a get away car driver?  Was this just a coincidence and has nothing to do with the crime and was he really waiting for his dad?


I'd like to know the description flannel shirt guy gave.  I just know the clothes were different (no jacket? or more?)  Could this not have been the killer after all.  Did the killer escape by walking up the creek and leaving on the trail Garret Kirts knew was there leading up to the back of Ron Logan's property.  Ron Logan was not home we know because he got in trouble for driving out of town on a suspended license.  

I have information to clarify some of these things in notes somewhere but a lot I do not know and really wish that LE would clarify things, specifically more detail on what the witnesses saw.



 

Agent99,

Thanks for all that additional info.  I was unaware of some of the things you mentioned.  I didn't know Libbey was found nude. 

Cleo