Kaylee's time in Moscow after June 2022

[johnnyhands1]

It's unclear to me how much of the time Kaylee was living at the 1122 King Rd residence during the U Idaho fall term.  I've heard it reported that, for that weekend, she was just in town to show her longtime close friend Maddie her new Range Rover vehicle, and was even debating whether to go there that weekend. 

She did end up going, arriving in Moscow, on Friday, Nov. 11 and I've heard that it was only for the weekend, possibly until Tuesday.  We know she was schedule to graduate in December '22, had plans for a vacation in January, and afterward was going to Austin Texas for a job in February (I'm also confused whether this was for a permanent job, or just an internship - didn't she already do the internship in Texas in June/July/August of '22?)

Was she finishing her final term classes online? That would explain her going back and forth freely.

I'm bringing this up because what dates she was and wasn't in Moscow after Kohberger arrived there in June '22 will be a large clue to whether she was the target (or one of the targets.)   We know from the Moscow PD body cam footage (August 16, '22, I believe) that she was in Moscow at 1122 King and was considered one of the residents of the house, but it's unclear when she left to go back home (but it seems she was still paying rent, so she still had a room in the house that was hers.)

Did Kohberger's later surveillance happen mostly when she was away - such that he thought she moved out - which might mean Maddie, possibly, was the main target?  Or, did his surveillance include online stalking of the housemates, such that he knew more about where Kaylee was, and knew she'd returned to Moscow - even thinking that weekend was his last chance to attack her at that house?  

(EDIT: with the above in in mind, below is a link to yahoo news reporting the picture we've all seen of all five roommates + Ethan with Maddie on Kaylee's shoulders, outside on the house deck, was posted on social media the night before on Nov. 12):

news.yahoo.com/four-friends-posted-photos-enjoying-142145573.html


Has anyone heard more information of when and where Kaylee was during the summer break and fall term?

[johnnyhands1]

One of the YouTubers covering the case posted a video saying the Range Rover (2016, not new) was her first car, so perhaps she had no car during the summer and fall for Kohberger to track, unless she was borrowing a family car during that time. If she had no car before that Friday, did she get a ride from Maddie or some other same-hometown Idaho student, say, the previous weekend, and had only been out of Moscow for that week? Kohberger may not have known anything about her not being there, unless he was tipped off by social media posts.

[almagata]

The biggest missing piece for this case is how the house and kids caught the attention of Kohlberger. He was new to the area and lived in Pullman. The Queen Street house was in an obscure area of the town that was not easy to find. Clearly he had been stalking them since August.

They have his phone records back to, I think June when he moved to Washington so hopefully, they can use the kids phone data to overlay where the connection was.

Maybe he was just randomly trolling neighborhoods but my guess is there there was some overlap at one of the girls work places. I doubt they met him via a social event. These kids had an established social network within the Greek community and school. There was no need to engage with a new Phd student from Pullman who was a non-drinking vegan.

[elir]

Jan 12, 2023 0:56:43 GMT almagata said:

The biggest missing piece for this case is how the house and kids caught the attention of Kohlberger. He was new to the area and lived in Pullman. The Queen Street house was in an obscure area of the town that was not easy to find. Clearly he had been stalking them since August.

They have his phone records back to, I think June when he moved to Washington so hopefully, they can use the kids phone data to overlay where the connection was.

Maybe he was just randomly trolling neighborhoods but my guess is there there was some overlap at one of the girls work places. I doubt they met him via a social event. These kids had an established social network within the Greek community and school. There was no need to engage with a new Phd student from Pullman who was a non-drinking vegan.

  King Road is directly behind Greek row at the university, not exactly an obscure part of town. Lots of party houses in the area.

  Two of the victims worked at Mad Greek , a vegetarian restaurant in town.

  Possible that he first spotted them there or it might have been completely random.

[almagata]

Jan 12, 2023 3:07:29 GMT elir said:

Jan 12, 2023 0:56:43 GMT almagata said:

The biggest missing piece for this case is how the house and kids caught the attention of Kohlberger. He was new to the area and lived in Pullman. The Queen Street house was in an obscure area of the town that was not easy to find. Clearly he had been stalking them since August.

They have his phone records back to, I think June when he moved to Washington so hopefully, they can use the kids phone data to overlay where the connection was.

Maybe he was just randomly trolling neighborhoods but my guess is there there was some overlap at one of the girls work places. I doubt they met him via a social event. These kids had an established social network within the Greek community and school. There was no need to engage with a new Phd student from Pullman who was a non-drinking vegan.

  King Road is directly behind Greek row at the university, not exactly an obscure part of town. Lots of party houses in the area.

  Two of the victims worked at Mad Greek , a vegetarian restaurant in town.

  Possible that he first spotted them there or it might have been completely random.

Rohberger did not have any ties to the Greek community and most people that do have ties to the Greek community have left that life behind by the time they are in grad school. Even if he was driving around the UI campus, there is no reason to stop and walk around that area.  It is not pretty and there are no businesses.  The Arboretum and golf course have their own parking lots. 

Based on his cell phone tracking, it is clear that he knew the roads in that residential neighborhood. He also was familiar with the remote roads far out in the country for many miles.  For a guy who has only been in the area for a few months it is a bit odd that he would not have been more closely tied to his college and Pullman. 

He was sober so he would not be seeking out people who were drinking like these kids were.  Maybe he came to Moscow for a AA/NA meeting. 

[johnnyhands1]

Jan 12, 2023 0:56:43 GMT almagata said:

The biggest missing piece for this case is how the house and kids caught the attention of Kohlberger. He was new to the area and lived in Pullman. The Queen Street house was in an obscure area of the town that was not easy to find. Clearly he had been stalking them since August.

They have his phone records back to, I think June when he moved to Washington so hopefully, they can use the kids phone data to overlay where the connection was.

Maybe he was just randomly trolling neighborhoods but my guess is there there was some overlap at one of the girls work places. I doubt they met him via a social event. These kids had an established social network within the Greek community and school. There was no need to engage with a new Phd student from Pullman who was a non-drinking vegan.

I don't think he's a non-drinker, because there are a couple of photos of him with a wine glass in his hand.  Also there was an interview with a PA bar owner who said they kept a record of him bother waitresses. He said Kohberger, after a couple of drinks, "got a little too relaxed" - meaning he started making the harassing comments while drinking: 

(the video only briefly mentions the brewery/bar owner, about 1:40, but the text has the complete story.)

www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/suspect-idaho-killings-made-creepy-comments-brewery-staff-customers-ow-rcna63847

Here was one of the notes kept in the bar's record system:

"Hey, this guy makes creepy comments, keep an eye on him. He’ll have two or three beers and then just get a little too comfortable."

[cluso]

I don't think he is a "full time" drinker but he looks like a socially awkward guy that tried to hang out sometimes to make friends and had probably had a few beers but not unless he was going out, he is not the type who would have a beer at home. He could have seen some of them in town, Moscow is not a big place and if you try to find people to "hang out" with, you'll probably go where people hang out, he could have been at corner bar sometimes or saw Xana and Maddy at the restaurant they worked for, it has vegetarian options. He could also have had a look at girls around his area on social medias and lock for some reasons on them, he could have then gone to the restaurant they worked at to try and meet them, one may have said something to him he took wrongly or ignore him, that could have been the starting point, he could also have been jealous of the friendship and life they had, something he seeks but can't achieve. Finding where they lived is easy with social medias. Something that probably happened that early morning made him go, something made it so that he had to do it then, even though there was a lot of cars parked in front of the house and a delivery at 4am he still did it. I think he probably was there ready to go 2 or 3 times before but for some reasons didn't go. He could have entered the house before when they were sleeping to get familiar with the lay out. I wonder if Xana had her door lock changed by her dad because she found her door wide open one morning waking up knowing she had closed it.

[johnnyhands1]

Jan 12, 2023 8:25:06 GMT cluso said:

I don't think he is a "full time" drinker but he looks like a socially awkward guy that tried to hang out sometimes to make friends and had probably had a few beers but not unless he was going out, he is not the type who would have a beer at home. He could have seen some of them in town, Moscow is not a big place and if you try to find people to "hang out" with, you'll probably go where people hang out, he could have been at corner bar sometimes or saw Xana and Maddy at the restaurant they worked for, it has vegetarian options. He could also have had a look at girls around his area on social medias and lock for some reasons on them, he could have then gone to the restaurant they worked at to try and meet them, one may have said something to him he took wrongly or ignore him, that could have been the starting point, he could also have been jealous of the friendship and life they had, something he seeks but can't achieve. Finding where they lived is easy with social medias. Something that probably happened that early morning made him go, something made it so that he had to do it then, even though there was a lot of cars parked in front of the house and a delivery at 4am he still did it. I think he probably was there ready to go 2 or 3 times before but for some reasons didn't go. He could have entered the house before when they were sleeping to get familiar with the lay out. I wonder if Xana had her door lock changed by her dad because she found her door wide open one morning waking up knowing she had closed it.

Good chance you're spot on about his moderate drinking.  From the picture of him so far, I wouldn't be surprised if, as you speculate, he somehow found them first on social media (perhaps based on the suggested by an app's algorithm), then decide to either accost them and/or stalk them. 

EDIT: you also wrote, "I wonder if Xana had her door lock changed by her dad because she found her door wide open one morning waking up knowing she had closed it."

If Kohberger had been in the house earlier, that would be very interesting.  That makes him a cat burglar (even if he didn't steal anything), and a lot more like JJD.

Also, has anyone seen any more details of what that lock situation was about?  Here's what I found by googling:

www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/crime/idaho-murders-house-locks-bedroom-b2238716.html

"Cara Denise Northington, mother of murder victim Xana Kernodle, revealed in a phone interview with NewsNation that her daughter’s father had worked on the locks at the home prior to the killings.

Speaking with anchor Ashleigh Banfield, Ms Northington said she believed her daughter’s bedroom door had a lock and the Jeff Kernodle had visited the Moscow, Idaho, house a week before Xana’s death to fix a lock.

It is unclear whether it was the lock on the bedroom door or one of the house’s external doors.

Ms Banfield also reported that a former tenant had told Fox Digital that his bedroom at the house had a coded lock on the door — as did every bedroom in the house."

[almagata]

Jan 12, 2023 6:41:39 GMT johnnyhands1 said:

Jan 12, 2023 0:56:43 GMT almagata said:

The biggest missing piece for this case is how the house and kids caught the attention of Kohlberger. He was new to the area and lived in Pullman. The Queen Street house was in an obscure area of the town that was not easy to find. Clearly he had been stalking them since August.

They have his phone records back to, I think June when he moved to Washington so hopefully, they can use the kids phone data to overlay where the connection was.

Maybe he was just randomly trolling neighborhoods but my guess is there there was some overlap at one of the girls work places. I doubt they met him via a social event. These kids had an established social network within the Greek community and school. There was no need to engage with a new Phd student from Pullman who was a non-drinking vegan.

I don't think he's a non-drinker, because there are a couple of photos of him with a wine glass in his hand.  Also there was an interview with a PA bar owner who said they kept a record of him bother waitresses. He said Kohberger, after a couple of drinks, "got a little too relaxed" - meaning he started making the harassing comments while drinking: 

(the video only briefly mentions the brewery/bar owner, about 1:40, but the text has the complete story.)

www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/suspect-idaho-killings-made-creepy-comments-brewery-staff-customers-ow-rcna63847

Here was one of the notes kept in the bar's record system:

"Hey, this guy makes creepy comments, keep an eye on him. He’ll have two or three beers and then just get a little too comfortable."

That's interesting.  There were other comments about him going to rehab for an opioid addiction.  Addiction treatment centers lump all substances into the same category and if you are in recovery, all mind altering substances would be off limits.  If he was drinking, that would mean that he was no longer following the program. 

[pod]

Mad Greek in Moscow is a Greek restaurant. Their menu is available to see online. I don't know anything about vegan food in restaurants. But if Kohberger is so extreme he made his relatives buy new pots and pans, would he frequent a restaurant that wasn't fully vegan but only had vegan options on the menu?

[johnnyhands1]

Jan 13, 2023 0:20:38 GMT pod said:

Mad Greek in Moscow is a Greek restaurant. Their menu is available to see online. I don't know anything about vegan food in restaurants. But if Kohberger is so extreme he made his relatives buy new pots and pans, would he frequent a restaurant that wasn't fully vegan but only had vegan options on the menu?

I'd be interested to know if Kohberger was in the habit of paying cash or credit/debit during his time in the Moscow-Pullman area.  As I'm sure you've already thought of, there may be a record of him paying by card at the Mad Greek. LE is surely looking at every record of him in Moscow since his arrival to Pullman in June '22.

EDIT (Jan 25, '23):  I quoted the meaww.com info in a reddit post, and the moderators removed it as "unverified information, further saying "Meaww is not a reputable source."  So be forewarned.

Here's a paragraph from an article about Maddie and Xana's working at the Mad Greek, from November 16, 2022:

meaww.com/mad-greek-pays-tribute-to-madison-mogen-and-xana-kernodle-killed-in-idaho-university-attack

"The restaurant, named Mad Greek, said Xana Kernodle, 20, and Madison Mogen, 21, had been servers at the restaurant for several years and the latter even managed their social media pages. The restaurant also said they have temporarily closed to process and grieve. "It is with a broken heart and deep sadness to share with you that we have lost two of our own here at Mad Greek," the restaurant posted on Facebook."

I was wondering how they had been servers for "several years" if the Mad Greek served alcohol, but it turns out the age is 19 in Idaho to serve alcohol:  

Here's a page that lists the minimum serving age for every US state:

bartendinglicensehelp.com/legal-age-to-serve-alcohol/

Also, here's an snippet form an article from that same site I referenced earlier, above, from Jan. 2, that references someone "reading" that Kaylee visited the Mad Greek often:

meaww.com/internet-says-vegan-bryan-kohberger-went-to-mad-greek-where-the-victims-worked

"SG said they see a link between him and Kaylee, so I'm not sure what happened there, but I read Kaylee would frequent the Mad Greek a lot so I wouldnt be surprised if that's where they made initial contact."

[pod]

Thinking out loud:
This appears to be a blitz attack, but (according to LE) it doesn't seem to be a blitz attack with the intent on subduing victims in order to perform a direct sexual assault. In other words, he invades the home with the sole intent of murdering one or more of the occupants.

If this is true, then it's an assassination that smacks of revenge. And revenge does hint at some prior contact with the target victim/s.

As you say, Johnnyhands, by now, LE likely have everything they need to connect the dots. (Except maybe the whereabouts of the knife.)

[oldguy]

Jan 13, 2023 0:20:38 GMT pod said:

Mad Greek in Moscow is a Greek restaurant. Their menu is available to see online. I don't know anything about vegan food in restaurants. But if Kohberger is so extreme he made his relatives buy new pots and pans, would he frequent a restaurant that wasn't fully vegan but only had vegan options on the menu?

He might stop in for liquid refreshments.
BTW, a guy who posts on Glock Talk and lives just North of Moscow wrote that he’d had both of the two employee-victims as servers. Glad I never ate there it would give me Kind of a creepy feeling….

[oldguy]

If Kohberger had been in the house earlier, that would be very interesting. That makes him a cat burglar (even if he didn't steal anything), and a lot more like JJD.

Like JJD, he had a waterfall process:
1. General reconnoitering for possible target sites;
2. In-depth surveillance of one/two possible venues
3. Evaluation of residents;
4. The attack.

That unusual 3 tiered house next to a steep hill was perfect. And girls! Girls!
And lots of random gatherings! He almost certainly crashed a party late at night when surveillance showed folks were wasted.

[johnnyhands1]

Jan 16, 2023 22:00:36 GMT oldguy said:

If Kohberger had been in the house earlier, that would be very interesting. That makes him a cat burglar (even if he didn't steal anything), and a lot more like JJD.

Like JJD, he had a waterfall process:
1. General reconnoitering for possible target sites;
2. In-depth surveillance of one/two possible venues
3. Evaluation of residents;
4. The attack.

That unusual 3 tiered house next to a steep hill was perfect. And girls! Girls!
And lots of random gatherings! He almost certainly crashed a party late at night when surveillance showed folks were wasted.

But did he remember to turn his phone off - to avoid cell tower and house wifi pings?  Would the house wifi ping data still be available?