New Book...Shelby

[tongue]

Oct 20, 2014 18:33:37 GMT msinfo said:

Finished my copy of Shelby's book in two days--it is more spare and down to the basics than Det. Crompton's--and look forward to the thoughts of those of you who know the cases so thoroughly. The one thing that sticks out at me about EAR is that he had large amounts of time, on an almost daily basis, to do the following: prowl neighborhoods day and night, listen to the police scanner, probably cut in to telephone lines of potential victims, obtain a variety of vehicles and license plates, including plates that shouldn't have been around anymore. To me this "free time" characteristic almost rules out a daily office worker or even a full time student or a business person with a lot of meetings and commitments daily.
At one time Archy had a serious POI who was eventually ruled out by testing both here and in the state he moved to. The thing that was so appealing about this guy was not only his status as a previous sex offender, but that he was being financially supported by a significant other. He pretty much answered to no one for his time. That to me is the type of person we're looking for.

i agree with this 100%...the guy we are looking for doesnt work full time and likely switches jobs often imo..that or he is supported by someone else..or else how in the world would he have all the time to recon, trading/buying cars etc etc?this is also why i would tend to believe Ons wasnt involved in serious relationships of any kind as again, his life seemed to revolve around his prowling, raping and killing..this is why i lean away from Mr Y as he seemed too disciplined and accomplished to have that much free time to do these sorts of things..

 

[tongue]

for those that have read the book, are you more confused than ever as to this case or did it really tie up some loose ends for you?after reading it, have your thoughts changed on who Ons is or what type of person he may have been etc etc??

[portofleith]

Nov 10, 2014 17:14:27 GMT tongue said:

for those that have read the book, are you more confused than ever as to this case or did it really tie up some loose ends for you?after reading it, have your thoughts changed on who Ons is or what type of person he may have been etc etc??

That is a good question Tongue and I hope the book has shed a light for many on the variety of POI's who were looked at and subsequently cleared by DNA.  The minister with the strange habit of following young women, the man who became a serial rapist in San Diego and later killed his brother with an arrow, the phone company employee, etc.. . . . all very interesting.

[ice]

Nov 10, 2014 17:06:47 GMT tongue said:

Nov 10, 2014 11:32:18 GMT ice said:

There is very little information about Carlos and it is almost added as an afterthought being the last chapter. As is a common theme running through the book, Shelby gets you excited as he details a lead only for it to peter out usually due to LE incompetence or a lack of follow up. I lost count how many times he said, "but I never heard back from them" when he requested support from an outside agency. I'm sure I'm not the only person thinking this is just not good enough.

I don't remember the specifics but there were two occasions three people were seen running away by witnesses. It could mean something, then again it could mean nothing. From my reading of ST, it would appear there were a lot of prowlers, burglars and rapists on the loose during the EAR's reign of terror. But what are the chances there happened to be one or two unrelated prowlers/burglars/rapists on the same street as the EAR at the same time? 

thats frustrating...i wonder if Carlos had any prior criminal history?i assume he is still alive today?i guess many of these things we will never know..

did Shelby bring up Woofy, the 3 toed german shepherd dog and how or why it was at 2 different murder scenes?

Carlos is living on a boat off the Southern California coast.

Shelby seemed to think the 3-toed German shepherd dog was one of the big rumours surrounding the case. There was very little mention of it in the book.

[tongue]

Nov 10, 2014 17:31:03 GMT portofleith said:

Nov 10, 2014 17:14:27 GMT tongue said:

for those that have read the book, are you more confused than ever as to this case or did it really tie up some loose ends for you?after reading it, have your thoughts changed on who Ons is or what type of person he may have been etc etc??

That is a good question Tongue and I hope the book has shed a light for many on the variety of POI's who were looked at and subsequently cleared by DNA.  The minister with the strange habit of following young women, the man who became a serial rapist in San Diego and later killed his brother with an arrow, the phone company employee, etc.. . . . all very interesting.

personally id love to read a book that simply went over the POIs in the case...gave as much detail as possible on each one...maybe  a website devoted to just the POIs in the case just as there is with Jack the Ripper case..those fellows u mentioned all sound interesting..

[alphacentauri]

Oct 25, 2014 14:43:59 GMT pendleton said:

Oct 24, 2014 12:30:23 GMT pendleton said:

Interesting POI. Interesting too that he emigrated from Germany as some victims have claimed that EAR had/put on a German accent. I don't buy EAR's ability to cut in on phone lines without proof. In the first attack EAR made an attempt to cut the phone line from outside and failed miserably. After that he disabled phones from inside the homes by butting the cord or ripping them out of the wall. True he may have adapted his MO and learned to cut in on phone lines but if so, why did he never cut the lines from outside when he attacked? EAR was, for the most part, very careful and methodical. If he had the ability to cut in on phone lines then he would have had the ability to cut them dead from outside before he attacked which would have been the safer option for him.

Something just popped into my head about this POI and the idea that EAR/ONS could possibly be from Germany. A large part of EAR's MO was that he lubricated himself before attacks. This leads me to believe that he was circumcised (can anyone confirm that?). The circumcision rate in Europe is around 20% over all and a 2007 study in Germany puts the rate of circumcision among males 0-17 at around 10-11%. It doesn't rule out him being German but it's something to think about. I just wanted to get it down before it got lost in my head and it beats sitting here watching Liverpool FC suck.

The circumcision rate in various European countries, and in Germany are both extremely low.  Basically the only people there who get it done are Muslims, and not even all Jewish people living in European countries or outside of the United States get it done.

For me the idea that he used lubricant on his genitals, would mean that he was going to anally rape a woman or man.

[albion]

Oct 10, 2014 21:33:50 GMT portofleith said:

Oct 10, 2014 21:13:42 GMT albion said:

Port does lack of any LE personnel that were victims seem significant to you? When I consider Sandia's argument about framing or misleading police towards known poi's, and the idea that ear was able to evade the task force so well, and LE's own opinion that ear was well aware of LE methods, it seems the lack of LE victims would be a sign of something. If he was really thumbing his nose at LE then why only military victims? Wouldn't a LE victim have really struck a nerve?  Why was he afraid of LE in this regard?

Do you have any general knowledge of the attack that was determined to be a copycat?

And, yes, the articles on the red baron rapes in AZ have always interested me. As well as the rape of the Woodbridge woman. I don't believe her case was ever solved and that in any way was she satisfied with the service she received from IPD. I believe she may have tried to sue afterwards.

Albion- I have always found it interesting that a police radio was stolen in Visalia from a robbery surveillance van during the ransackings, that the CB activity in Sacramento was probably jamming the waves with patrol action for all to hear and that Witthuhn had a ham radio tuned to police frequency.  I even found a book excerpt about the police youth cadets that traveled with the police in their patrol cars during this time period.  

I have looked at policeman including one arrested for being an obscene phone caller in Modesto, one arrested in Bakersfield on drug charges, one in Sacramento for a variety of charges including child porn and robbery-  I have a file devoted to rogue cops I have researched.  None fit though.  

If EAR had ever trained in the military police or regular law enforcement, he would have known that LE would react differently to a home invasion prowler than a civilian.  I believe the statistical blip that no middle class neighborhood attack contained LE is not a blip at all.  I think it was part of EAR's meticulous research and survey of a neighborhood and was deliberate avoidance.

Kelly could very likely have  murdered either one of his bludgeon victims and I believe today he is a parolee.  The Red Robin could have been EAR's twin brother except for the timing and the fact a brave young lady did not hesitate to shoot him in his last attempt.


I am looking forward to reading about some of Detective Shelby's top POI's as several news articles and pieces have indicated that Sac did think they could be looking at someone with LE or military background.

Another one of Port's great posts and research.

The Red Robin had military experience.

0 LE families. 25 military families.

I have been wondering why no one has, to my knowledge, questioned the performance of the military police. In the end, did they actually help with the investigation?

[albion]

Sept 26, 2014 15:31:19 GMT f1guyus said:

I will point out that while the 13 jurisdictions is right 25 of EAR's attacks occurred in one. There is a reason for this. We just don't know what it was.

It seems like LE ignored this throughout the investigation. Instead they focused on how hard it was to catch a "Random" serial killer. Or whatever lower class sexually driven monster they could find.

If you ever want to see how well LE can perform, wait until a case actually involves an officer and his family. The wheels of justice dont grind that slowly then.

[albion]

Sept 25, 2014 23:40:38 GMT dengas said:

Dengas’

Recently, while searching for a domain name, I stumbled across a blog about the EAR/ONS. Apparently there are “inept and corrupt LE” involved with that investigation. Although I would not use it as a blanket cover statement, I would not argue about the ineptness that occasionally reared it’s ugly head. To say that any LE intentionally worked or works at impeding this investigation is so asinine as to deserve no further comment.

Looking back at this first post, I cant help but wonder. It seems "inept and corrupt LE" may not have been such a stretch. Maybe not as "asinine" as he first thought? He should have read the blog more closely.

I am really looking forward to all that comes out of this investigation.