Newspaper Article suggests EAR/ONS was caught..then released

[Drifter]

Feb 13, 2014 16:39:16 GMT @privatecitizen said:

It wouldn't have to be the governor intervening, but there are interesting connections there. If it happened, it could have just as easily been LE on their own or the DA whom decided not to pursue it and to keep it quiet.

Ronnie's son wouldn't have had the same type of fallout for the govt. An embarrassment sure, but not on the same level and not as far reaching if it was the governor's son. In reality, if the DA decided to prosecute, even someone without clout would probably get a plea bargain or no time served for the crime described if they had a halfway decent lawyer. He also had a lot of sympathy from some people and those people may have had the means to intervene.

I think it needs to be looked at in context. Rapists often got a slap on the wrist if they were prosecuted and there were tons that were not prosecuted. Serial rapists with zero clout were getting ridiculously low sentences. If the EAR rapes had been prosecuted, most likely it would have been for only a fraction of the actual rapes and with a good lawyer/team of lawyers for the defendant, it wouldn't have necessarily been a slam dunk case to prosecute.

There are strong indications that Maverick Airlines was involved in crimes, but Lyman Smith was expected to receive a judgeship instead of an investigation. How does that work? We don't know for sure exactly how it works, but it does.

LE claimed for whatever reason this guy was protected and records were altered or tossed. There are strong indications that's true. Who knows exactly who/whom deemed it in the best interest and felt it was better to protect him for all of the crimes he was suspected of if it is true. Regardless, there is strong evidence those things really happened and that LE who tried to pursue it were thwarted and the personal repercussions they received weren't nice. An LEO or group of them doesn't prosecute the cases and they don't always have the means to keep gathering evidence on their own. They are essentially powerless beyond a certain point.

We find it outrageous and unbelievable that things like that happen, but it doesn't mean they don't happen. It doesn't really matter why, imo. What matters is that there are very strong indications that it happened and continues to happen. Our justice system is great in comparison to most others, but it is often uneven. It is vulnerable to those with power and there is no guarantee that each person will receive the same treatment.

Well said, pc.

There's a tendency for people to think that local LE is omniscient, that what they say and do is the final authority.  But that is not always true.  Higher authority does exist and will exert influence over local LE jurisdictions, even if such influence is tacit and unspoken.

Drifter

[Deleted]

Feb 14, 2014 10:40:44 GMT sfbay said:

PrivateCitizen Said:

#1: It wouldn't have to be the governor intervening, but there are interesting connections there.

#2: If it happened, it could have just as easily been LE on their own or the DA whom decided not to pursue it and to keep it quiet.

#3: Ronnie's son wouldn't have had the same type of fallout for the govt. [...]  He also had a lot of sympathy from some people and those people may have had the means to intervene.

#4: LE claimed for whatever reason this guy was protected and records were altered or tossed.

#5: There are strong indications that's true.

#6: Who knows exactly who/whom deemed it in the best interest and felt it was better to protect him for all of the crimes he was suspected of if it is true.

#7: Regardless, there is strong evidence those things really happened and that LE who tried to pursue it were thwarted and the personal repercussions they received weren't nice.

--------

PC,

I'm not really sure how to respond, but I'll give it a try   Perhaps you don't understand the assertions you're making, so I've numbered and bulleted them to see if you still feel that same reading your own post in this format - and more importantly, to see if can substantiate any of it.  So let's do it... here's my review/questions regarding the (your) numbered comments above:

(1) You seem to be backpedaling here from your previous post under minor challenge from others. You claim interesting connections - can you share any?

(2) Again, now seem less sure here. "If it happened" and now speculate lone-chicken LE and/or the DA him/herself chose to cover it up - but I thought you had sources? Why so much speculation?

(3) ... just to be clear are you referring to Regan's son here still, or Ronald himself?  

(4) When you say "LE Claimed". Who claimed? Claimed where/in what medium? How do YOU know? LE altering or tossing "records" related to a crime like this would be bad news for anyone who knew about it and kept it quiet -- I'm quite surprised they would share this with you!

(5) Share any one of the strong indications, please?

(6) Again, for clarification - are you speaking for your source when you say "who knows..." ? You do have a source? You're saying your source doesn't know who protected this person (your suggesting the EAR/ONS) "for all the crimes"

(7) You're asserting one or more LEO's were reprimanded or otherwise punished over an event with regards to investigating or suspecting a certain individual? It's been almost 40 years... did they ever speak up? I mean, other than to you of course. Like after they realized the person they believed was the bad man continued to rape 10,20,30,40+ more... no? not yet? How about after they made the DNA link to the ONS? 10 murders confirmed, not yet time to speak up? Not even through anonymous tip to every other jurisdiction involved? Not even to the press? Not even to Oprah?

Wow, nice try sfbay. My post was quite clear and it was in relation to McGowen's primary VR suspect whom was also an EAR suspect. Arch, guessting, and port have also posted numerous times about him being a VR and an EAR suspect, which is backed up by LE. Do a bit a research on him, the Reagan's, his status and the sympathy some people felt for those in his situation. Then reread all of the posts port and guessting made (they did delete some of them) about what they claim is and isn't in LE records about him. It will show strong indications that records about him aren't there and/or hold false information about him, which is precisely what some LE in Visalia and Sacramento have claimed. Det. Crompton has also claimed that thousands of records on suspects and investigations were tossed. Guessting has previously posted that the Santa Barbara LE records on the Goleta murders are so incomplete that she is embarrassed for them.

McGowen's suspect was going to Sacramento/Mather off and on during 1974 for military related things and he was also a guest of the Reagan's that year and the previous year in Sacramento and elsewhere. Many posters on here know about that, because they have researched him. That's why I said I could see it happening (what Whitmeyer claimed he was told according to the article) in relation to a certain LE suspect.

There are quite a few people on this forum that have good LE contacts and some have copies of records. Most of them don't advertise that and almost none will identify what info they got from them by name unless it's something that has been released to the public.

[Deleted]

Feb 14, 2014 11:00:36 GMT sfbay said:

Sorry all. I know for 100% fact that multiple jurisdictions to this day are spending significant time and resources trying to identify this guy. I'm fairly certain that even if the culprit were god almighty himself, he would have his DNA sampled for elimination just like everyone else. I find the post and the allegations a bit offensive and very far fetched. I said my bit so I'll just shut up now

They did do what they claim were DNA samples of him. There are lots of different ways to get samples and it is wide open to mistakes. You may trust the process used 100%, but myself and others don't. Sorry to offend you, but this case is not all hunky dory and there are some misconceptions about what did and didn't happen. You may find it far-fetched, but that just indicates to me that you haven't done adequate research for yourself and are taking what some posters tell you as 100% accurate. I used to do that and no longer do.

[Deleted]

I think that one of the really strange things about these cases is how many POI can look really good geographically and otherwise as potential suspects. Some of the real veterans can probably count off at least five (maybe more) POI, each of whom looked really good at one time for these crimes. There has to be an endgame catchall and that is going to be DNA. Unless a pretty widespread conspiracy exists to subvert an important step or steps in the process from collection of DNA all the way through comparisons of DNA profiles with the unknown suspect profile most of these POI have already come to the attention of LE and, have been cleared by evaluation of their DNA profiles.

[Deleted]

Feb 14, 2014 12:40:25 GMT @playinem121 said:

I think that one of the really strange things about these cases is how many POI can look really good geographically and otherwise as potential suspects. Some of the real veterans can probably count off at least five (maybe more) POI, each of whom looked really good at one time for these crimes. There has to be an endgame catchall and that is going to be DNA. Unless a pretty widespread conspiracy exists to subvert an important step or steps in the process from collection of DNA all the way through comparisons of DNA profiles with the unknown suspect profile most of these POI have already come to the attention of LE and, have been cleared by evaluation of their DNA profiles.

Yes, but the DNA collection and evaluation process is not perfect. It's like most things and errors can happen for one reason or another. Some are innocent and some are intentional. We've all seen that in the news over the last several years.

As an analogy - if you have someone tell you 9 things about someone and they claim those 9 things are true, but you know for a fact that they are false; are you going to automatically believe the 10th thing they claim is true that they tell you about that person?

[Deleted]

Feb 14, 2014 12:56:05 GMT @privatecitizen said:

Feb 14, 2014 12:40:25 GMT @playinem121 said:

I think that one of the really strange things about these cases is how many POI can look really good geographically and otherwise as potential suspects. Some of the real veterans can probably count off at least five (maybe more) POI, each of whom looked really good at one time for these crimes. There has to be an endgame catchall and that is going to be DNA. Unless a pretty widespread conspiracy exists to subvert an important step or steps in the process from collection of DNA all the way through comparisons of DNA profiles with the unknown suspect profile most of these POI have already come to the attention of LE and, have been cleared by evaluation of their DNA profiles.

Yes, but the DNA collection and evaluation process is not perfect. It's like most things and errors can happen for one reason or another. Some are innocent and some are intentional. We've all seen that in the news over the last several years.

As an analogy - if you have someone tell you 9 things about someone and they claim those 9 things are true, but you know for a fact that they are false; are you going to automatically believe the 10th thing they claim is true that they tell you about that person?

I have enormous respect for your contributions to this board and these cases PC. I have been told that certain POI have been cleared through the process of DNA collection, evaluation and comparison. Are you saying I was lied too? Or, that the individuals (who told me about the clearance) were mistaken? Please tell me if I am on the wrong track.

[Deleted]

Feb 14, 2014 14:10:21 GMT @playinem121 said:

Feb 14, 2014 12:56:05 GMT @privatecitizen said:

Yes, but the DNA collection and evaluation process is not perfect. It's like most things and errors can happen for one reason or another. Some are innocent and some are intentional. We've all seen that in the news over the last several years.

As an analogy - if you have someone tell you 9 things about someone and they claim those 9 things are true, but you know for a fact that they are false; are you going to automatically believe the 10th thing they claim is true that they tell you about that person?

I have enormous respect for contributions to this board and these cases PC. I have been told that certain POI have been cleared through the process of DNA collection, evaluation and comparison. Are you saying I was lied too? Or, that the individuals (who told me about the clearance) were mistaken? Please tell me if I am on the wrong track.

I have enormous respect for the LE who busted their rears trying to do the right thing and I greatly appreciate the people contributing to this and other forums who do the right thing and have the victim's best interests at heart.

We've all been told he's been cleared by DNA. There are issues with not only his, but also other suspect's DNA clearing and I know you're smart enough to realize that.

[dionbrother]

The biggest question I have is what was wrong with the first three DNA tests. It's the most glaring fact/rumor from law enforcement that I've read on this board. Why 4 times?

[evaliant]

Feb 14, 2014 8:58:28 GMT Drifter said:

Feb 13, 2014 16:39:16 GMT @privatecitizen said:

It wouldn't have to be the governor intervening, but there are interesting connections there. If it happened, it could have just as easily been LE on their own or the DA whom decided not to pursue it and to keep it quiet.

Ronnie's son wouldn't have had the same type of fallout for the govt. An embarrassment sure, but not on the same level and not as far reaching if it was the governor's son. In reality, if the DA decided to prosecute, even someone without clout would probably get a plea bargain or no time served for the crime described if they had a halfway decent lawyer. He also had a lot of sympathy from some people and those people may have had the means to intervene.

I think it needs to be looked at in context. Rapists often got a slap on the wrist if they were prosecuted and there were tons that were not prosecuted. Serial rapists with zero clout were getting ridiculously low sentences. If the EAR rapes had been prosecuted, most likely it would have been for only a fraction of the actual rapes and with a good lawyer/team of lawyers for the defendant, it wouldn't have necessarily been a slam dunk case to prosecute.

There are strong indications that Maverick Airlines was involved in crimes, but Lyman Smith was expected to receive a judgeship instead of an investigation. How does that work? We don't know for sure exactly how it works, but it does.

LE claimed for whatever reason this guy was protected and records were altered or tossed. There are strong indications that's true. Who knows exactly who/whom deemed it in the best interest and felt it was better to protect him for all of the crimes he was suspected of if it is true. Regardless, there is strong evidence those things really happened and that LE who tried to pursue it were thwarted and the personal repercussions they received weren't nice. An LEO or group of them doesn't prosecute the cases and they don't always have the means to keep gathering evidence on their own. They are essentially powerless beyond a certain point.

We find it outrageous and unbelievable that things like that happen, but it doesn't mean they don't happen. It doesn't really matter why, imo. What matters is that there are very strong indications that it happened and continues to happen. Our justice system is great in comparison to most others, but it is often uneven. It is vulnerable to those with power and there is no guarantee that each person will receive the same treatment.

Well said, pc.

There's a tendency for people to think that local LE is omniscient, that what they say and do is the final authority.  But that is not always true.  Higher authority does exist and will exert influence over local LE jurisdictions, even if such influence is tacit and unspoken.

Drifter

Can someone provide a tangible explanation of how VIP someone would have to be for these things to happen in order to give some perspective on your claims?

A local businessman?

Ronnie's kid?

A CA politician?

A sheriff's son?

Where on the VIP spectrum would he fall for LE, whether lone wolf or group conspired, to disappear and distort evidence in a serial rape/murder case?

[Deleted]

Feb 14, 2014 16:29:38 GMT dionbrother said:

The biggest question I have is what was wrong with the first three DNA tests. It's the most glaring fact/rumor from law enforcement that I've read on this board. Why 4 times?

Good question brother...I can't answer it. 

[xiulan]

Feb 14, 2014 17:03:10 GMT evaliant said:

Feb 14, 2014 8:58:28 GMT Drifter said:

Well said, pc.

There's a tendency for people to think that local LE is omniscient, that what they say and do is the final authority.  But that is not always true.  Higher authority does exist and will exert influence over local LE jurisdictions, even if such influence is tacit and unspoken.

Drifter

Can someone provide a tangible explanation of how VIP someone would have to be for these things to happen in order to give some perspective on your claims?

Where on the VIP spectrum would he fall for LE, whether lone wolf or group conspired, to disappear and distort evidence in a serial rape/murder case?

This would be the million-dollar question, would it not? Unfortunately, there are examples of various agencies generally lumped under "law enforcement" have covered for people. To a point. I have great difficulty in believing a serial rapist/murderer this prolific would fall into the category of people protected by police, FBI, what have you. Not because I have any faith in all levels of government to be honest, necessarily, or from a naive perspective that corruption and back-scratching don't happen. But on the sheer magnitude of the crimes committed here. A single instance of murder? I don't find it impossible, sadly. A single rape? Maybe even two? It has probably happened somewhere, unfortunately. 50+ rapes? 10+ murders? Not even if it were Ronnie's son. I believe that's giving far too much credit to multiple government agencies to work in collusion in some form and keep such a thing an absolute secret.

This thing about DNA being tested multiple times for one person is also bizarre. Either that's an exaggeration of a point by posters, or there is something really, really wrong going on in that situation. I'm sorry. I know there are many here who believe that question is settled by 'clearance' of that POI; but I could understand the unwillingness to let it go when someone hears 4 DNA tests on one person for comparison...that's a highly suspect situation.

[redding]

Feb 14, 2014 18:19:06 GMT xiulan said:

Feb 14, 2014 17:03:10 GMT evaliant said:

Can someone provide a tangible explanation of how VIP someone would have to be for these things to happen in order to give some perspective on your claims?

Where on the VIP spectrum would he fall for LE, whether lone wolf or group conspired, to disappear and distort evidence in a serial rape/murder case?

This would be the million-dollar question, would it not? Unfortunately, there are examples of various agencies generally lumped under "law enforcement" have covered for people. To a point. I have great difficulty in believing a serial rapist/murderer this prolific would fall into the category of people protected by police, FBI, what have you. Not because I have any faith in all levels of government to be honest, necessarily, or from a naive perspective that corruption and back-scratching don't happen. But on the sheer magnitude of the crimes committed here. A single instance of murder? I don't find it impossible, sadly. A single rape? Maybe even two? It has probably happened somewhere, unfortunately. 50+ rapes? 10+ murders? Not even if it were Ronnie's son. I believe that's giving far too much credit to multiple government agencies to work in collusion in some form and keep such a thing an absolute secret.

I think that you make a lot of great points. 

[Deleted]

I don't think most can fathom the purely selfish or odd ideological reasons why some people or groups of people do outrageous things and couldn't care less what happens to others as long as it suits their own purpose. Like others have pointed out, it only takes a relative few to derail things. Others know they can't do anything about it and carry on, because they're aware of what will happen to them if they don't and know there's nothing they can do about it. It doesn't matter if it's 1 or 100 or thousands of victims to some as long as it suits whatever purpose they've deemed worthy.

The "mob" couldn't exist and murder many people without some level of collusion from those who are supposed to protect us.
Hitler or any other dictator couldn't have carried out the extermination of people without the collusion and help from others.
The Vietnam and Iraq wars couldn't have happened without a relative few with power calling the shots to the detriment of many.
There couldn't have been the scores of sexual assaults and rapes of children by priests without people who are supposed to protect doing just the opposite.
There couldn't have been the multitude of rapes in the military, on college campuses, and in the general population without the collusion of others.
It goes on and on and there are plenty of people floating around who couldn't care less if 50 people are raped and 10 murdered if it suits their purpose.

How 'bout that DNA checked 4 times story! I personally love that one, especially considering that it's been claimed that he was never a viable suspect to begin with and had already been cleared in multiple ways.

[redding]

Feb 14, 2014 19:53:21 GMT @privatecitizen said:

I don't think most can fathom the purely selfish or odd ideological reasons why some people or groups of people do outrageous things and couldn't care less what happens to others as long as it suits their own purpose. Like others have pointed out, it only takes a relative few to derail things. Others know they can't do anything about it and carry on, because they're aware of what will happen to them if they don't and know there's nothing they can do about it. It doesn't matter if it's 1 or 100 or thousands of victims to some as long as it suits whatever purpose they've deemed worthy.

The "mob" couldn't exist and murder many people without some level of collusion from those who are supposed to protect us.
Hitler or any other dictator couldn't have carried out the extermination of people without the collusion and help from others.
The Vietnam and Iraq wars couldn't have happened without a relative few with power calling the shots to the detriment of many.
There couldn't have been the scores of sexual assaults and rapes of children by priests without people who are supposed to protect doing just the opposite.
There couldn't have been the multitude of rapes in the military, on college campuses, and in the general population without the collusion of others.
It goes on and on and there are plenty of people floating around who couldn't care less if 50 people are raped and 10 murdered if it suits their purpose.

How 'bout that DNA checked 4 times story! I personally love that one, especially considering that it's been claimed that he was never a viable suspect to begin with and had already been cleared in multiple ways.

We get it.  You think he did it. I still don't see how a small group of people could keep Larry Pool and others from proving that your POI did it.  Is Larry in on this cover up as well.

[Deleted]

Feb 14, 2014 19:42:17 GMT portofleith said:

Feb 14, 2014 19:33:27 GMT sfbay said:

You're deflecting. Regardless if you decide to answer any of the direct questions, go back and read my comment for #7.

In your scenario, ask yourself what would continue to keep these LEO's quiet (except with sharing this information to you) - to the point of being complicit - allowing 40+ rapes and 10 murders to happen after what you're alleging. It's still not clear where the information originates - your source - although it seems you attempted to drag Crompton's name into it (along with Port, Guessting, Arch). I don't see anyone else suggesting this conspiracy, just you.

To be clear, with regards to crompton talking about evidence being tossed, or even Guessting talking about the state of investigations on Goleta, I'm going to assume neither was inferring the willful acts of a conspiracy to keep the case unsolved. Rather, with what you say of Crompton, I would think he meant agencies were following their procedures on evidence storage for crimes that were beyond the statue of limitations.

I do not for one instance believe that there was any conspiracy anywhere to suppress investigation of a certain military man.  I know that LE verified he was not available for three of the five May 1977 rapes.  He was cleared by two different jurisdictions.  I will not address DNA garbage runs because they are just that- garbage.  I also am amazed that this thread, which discusses a completely unsubstantiated, undocumented incident from an extremely unreliable source has been jumped on by those who believe it really happened.  Can they find a news clipping from the very detailed neighborhood newspaper "the Rancho Cordovan" that describes this fabricated burglary?

It doesn't exist. What every newcomer to these cases finds is the article from the Ojai paper over at JJ's site. If the incident described had really happened as described someone would be able to find some record of it. I live in the Sac area. I have searched...there is no record of an incident occurring in 1974 which matches what is described in the Ojai article. Here is the link to the article.

www.jjmcgr.org/BK/Clippings/20070112.pdf