Newspaper Article suggests EAR/ONS was caught..then released

[redding]

Feb 14, 2014 20:04:25 GMT sfbay said:

Feb 14, 2014 19:53:21 GMT @privatecitizen said:

Others know they can't do anything about it and carry on, because they're aware of what will happen to them if they don't and know there's nothing they can do about it. It doesn't matter if it's 1 or 100 or thousands of victims to some as long as it suits whatever purpose they've deemed worthy.

The "mob" couldn't exist and murder many people without some level of collusion from those who are supposed to protect us.
Hitler or any other dictator couldn't have carried out the extermination of people without the collusion and help from others.
The Vietnam and Iraq wars couldn't have happened without a relative few with power calling the shots to the detriment of many.
There couldn't have been the scores of sexual assaults and rapes of children by priests without people who are supposed to protect doing just the opposite.
There couldn't have been the multitude of rapes in the military, on college campuses, and in the general population without the collusion of others.
It goes on and on and there are plenty of people floating around who couldn't care less if 50 people are raped and 10 murdered if it suits their purpose.

How 'bout that DNA checked 4 times story! I personally love that one, especially considering that it's been claimed that he was never a viable suspect to begin with and had already been cleared in multiple ways.

For F's sake. Again you're suggesting that there are "others" (I infer you mean others in law enforcement) who know about this grand political conspiracy, and can't/don't do anything about it.... after 40 years. They have no desire to come clean, clear their conscious after realizing the impact and the pile of bodies they've allowed through their silence. What BS.

Now you provide examples of people colluding and maintaining secrecy together in the "mob", the Nazi regime, Vietnam, Iraq, The (Catholic?) Church, Military, Date Rapers. Except, the only problem with that - there have been numerous whistle-blowers, tipsters, informants, and witnesses on the record for every attempt of an analogous example you've provided.  That fact is exactly why you know about those "conspiracies" in the first place ;)

All I can say to PC is that I am sorry that your POI didn't pan out.  I hope that some day you will realize that it just isn't him.  

[redding]

Feb 14, 2014 20:12:22 GMT sfbay said:

Feb 14, 2014 20:02:29 GMT portofleith said:

GIGO- garbage in garbage out.

This thread is GIGO.  :)

You better give it a rest....or risk being banned.

[Deleted]

Feb 14, 2014 19:33:27 GMT sfbay said:

Feb 14, 2014 12:01:54 GMT @privatecitizen said:

Wow, nice try sfbay.

You're deflecting. Regardless if you decide to answer any of the direct questions, go back and read my comment for #7.

In your scenario, ask yourself what would continue to keep these LEO's quiet (except with sharing this information to you) - to the point of being complicit - allowing 40+ rapes and 10 murders to happen after what you're alleging. It's still not clear where the information originates - your source - although it seems you attempted to drag Crompton's name into it (along with Port, Guessting, Arch). I don't see anyone else suggesting this conspiracy, just you.

To be clear, with regards to crompton talking about evidence being tossed, or even Guessting talking about the state of investigations on Goleta, I'm going to assume neither was inferring the willful acts of a conspiracy to keep the case unsolved. Rather, with what you say of Crompton, I would think he meant agencies were following their procedures on evidence storage for crimes that were beyond the statue of limitations.

Why do you consider it dragging Crompton, Arch's, guessting's, and port's names into it when they have indeed made the claims I said they did? Oh, maybe I should add that some of those same people have posted quite a few times on forums that they suspect that the jurisdictions have something to hide. One of them has posted that this case has undertones of black - ops. Have you questioned them on why they claim those things, and insisted they tell you from who they are getting their information?

The information originates from within LE. They've shared it with those they trust and no, it's not just me. Do you insist everyone here who claims things are coming from LE sources spell out to you who it is? Like I said, there are quite a few on here who have good LE contacts, but don't advertise it.

Most of them have seen what happens if any LE try to do more and it's extremely naïve to think otherwise. Det. McGowen is no longer alive and people know he went to Sac attempting to make the case that the VR was EAR. He had repercussions for doing so. Some of the same people claim VR was EAR which is what he thought and they also can't come up with a single solid thing that absolutely rules out whom he thought was VR. That's weird.  

There have been others on this forum suggesting there are fishy things about this case and/or indications that someone was protected. There are quite a few on here who think the same thing I do, are doing their own research on this guy, other POIs, and the case and know that much of what was claimed is not true. It's good to see people finding out that a lot of case- related things we've been told for years is not true.

Now, sfbay . . . . do you mind sharing with all of us why you don't question things that a select few claim is coming from LE/records that not only sounds questionable, but is easily found to not be true if you did a little checking on your own? Have I missed posts of yours where you did that? I would hate to have missed those posts that indicated you did some research on your own and spoke up when you knew that the information from those you are championing was 100% false.

[Deleted]

Feb 14, 2014 19:48:06 GMT sfbay said:

Feb 14, 2014 16:29:38 GMT dionbrother said:

The biggest question I have is what was wrong with the first three DNA tests. It's the most glaring fact/rumor from law enforcement that I've read on this board. Why 4 times?

Dion - Start with your acknowledgement above that this is a rumor. Why not ask the forums source of this information (PC) for details on these 4 alleged DNA tests. If he/she cannot provide remote details of the circumstances of the 4 DNA tests (e.g. "1 bad sample, 3 different named counties tested/restested same person"), then why stop the rumored number at just 4? Why not 40 times, or 400.

It was guessting that originally posted his DNA was checked by 4 jurisdictions. Did she delete her post about that? 

I kindly request that you retract your statement where you say I am the source of the information on these 4 alleged DNA tests, because it is false.    

[Deleted]

This thread started over this information.


Once all the cases were linked
 through DNA and method of
 operation — the killer rode a
 stolen bike to the scene of the
 crime, wore a mask, and brought
 lengths of precut cord —
 Whitmeyer started sniffing around
 Sacramento County to investigate
 the East Area rapes for a lead.
 But he kept running into dead
 ends. A while back, Whitmeyer

received a highly promising call
 from a couple in Rancho Cordova.
 In a crime chillingly similar to the
 Smith murders, a husband and
 wife heard their sliding glass door
 being opened as they lay in bed.
 The wife called police, who
 arrived quickly and were able to
 apprehend the intruder. On his
 person were a pistol, knife, a
 mask, and three and one-half feet
 of precut cord. That was in 1974.
 Feeling a solid lead, Whitmeyer
 rushed north to check the
 Sacramento County records. What
 he found was heartbreaking; like

so many other sheriff’s
 departments, Sacramento County
 had long purged the records of
 that particular case. So again, the
 Whitmeyers were back at square
 one.
 But Russ Whitmeyer isn’t going
 to give up, “Period. From the very
 beginning it’s been a goal I’ve set.
 I don’t plan to give up until I
 identify this guy.” So he’s placing
 ads in local newspapers, tracing
 down leads, and is sending out
 90,000 information packets to
 Sacramento County residents in a
 few weeks.


Does anyone here in the Sac area know if Mr. Whitmeyer sent out those 90,000 mailers to Sac Cty residents presumably in the spring of 2007? I was still working for a living then in another state and I can't find anyone who remembers a mass mailing from Mr. Whitmeyer.

[Deleted]

Feb 14, 2014 20:02:29 GMT portofleith said:

Feb 14, 2014 19:53:21 GMT @privatecitizen said:

I don't think most can fathom the purely selfish or odd ideological reasons why some people or groups of people do outrageous things and couldn't care less what happens to others as long as it suits their own purpose. Like others have pointed out, it only takes a relative few to derail things. Others know they can't do anything about it and carry on, because they're aware of what will happen to them if they don't and know there's nothing they can do about it. It doesn't matter if it's 1 or 100 or thousands of victims to some as long as it suits whatever purpose they've deemed worthy.

The "mob" couldn't exist and murder many people without some level of collusion from those who are supposed to protect us.
Hitler or any other dictator couldn't have carried out the extermination of people without the collusion and help from others.
The Vietnam and Iraq wars couldn't have happened without a relative few with power calling the shots to the detriment of many.
There couldn't have been the scores of sexual assaults and rapes of children by priests without people who are supposed to protect doing just the opposite.
There couldn't have been the multitude of rapes in the military, on college campuses, and in the general population without the collusion of others.
It goes on and on and there are plenty of people floating around who couldn't care less if 50 people are raped and 10 murdered if it suits their purpose.

How 'bout that DNA checked 4 times story! I personally love that one, especially considering that it's been claimed that he was never a viable suspect to begin with and had already been cleared in multiple ways.

I have the Ransacker suspect list.  All were young men. Military man is not on the list and please do not say the list was falsified at a later date.  McGowen described a completely different shooter and we have multiple descriptions of the Ransacker.  McGowen attended school with military man and obviously should have had no problem identifying someone he knew within inches of his face.  I have no idea what four DNA clearings of military man you are talking about.  MM was  cleared by two different jurisdictions and if you are referring to a third garbage run- sorry GIGO- garbage in garbage out.  (I find MM less confusing than the X, Y, Z and Mr T discussion)


I guess if the karate teacher does not pan out, then we start making other people fit into what we think we know.

Yes, I know you claim to have the Ransacker list and I don't doubt that and I tend to believe that the list you have doesn't have his VR suspect (whom you refer to as military man) on it. However, you, guessting, and Arch have posted numerous times that whom you refer to as military man was his primary VR suspect. It is indicative of what I have said some LE have claimed about records being lost or altered about him if he isn't on the list.

McGowen knew darn well what he looked like. Yes, he described a different shooter. Now, put two and two together to see why and how what many have assumed to be facts about this case are instead misrepresentations of the case and very misleading about Det. McGowen.

Military man was cleared by two jurisdictions? Why did guessting post his DNA was checked by four jurisdictions?

What do you mean by karate teacher?

[Deleted]

Feb 14, 2014 19:42:17 GMT portofleith said:

Feb 14, 2014 19:33:27 GMT sfbay said:

You're deflecting. Regardless if you decide to answer any of the direct questions, go back and read my comment for #7.

In your scenario, ask yourself what would continue to keep these LEO's quiet (except with sharing this information to you) - to the point of being complicit - allowing 40+ rapes and 10 murders to happen after what you're alleging. It's still not clear where the information originates - your source - although it seems you attempted to drag Crompton's name into it (along with Port, Guessting, Arch). I don't see anyone else suggesting this conspiracy, just you.

To be clear, with regards to crompton talking about evidence being tossed, or even Guessting talking about the state of investigations on Goleta, I'm going to assume neither was inferring the willful acts of a conspiracy to keep the case unsolved. Rather, with what you say of Crompton, I would think he meant agencies were following their procedures on evidence storage for crimes that were beyond the statue of limitations.

I do not for one instance believe that there was any conspiracy anywhere to suppress investigation of a certain military man.  I know that LE verified he was not available for three of the five May 1977 rapes.  He was cleared by two different jurisdictions.  I will not address DNA garbage runs because they are just that- garbage.  I also am amazed that this thread, which discusses a completely unsubstantiated, undocumented incident from an extremely unreliable source has been jumped on by those who believe it really happened.  Can they find a news clipping from the very detailed neighborhood newspaper "the Rancho Cordovan" that describes this fabricated burglary?

OK. You know that LE verified he was not available for three of the five May, 1977 rapes. How did they verify that?  

Who believes a completely unsubstantiated, undocumented incident from an extremely unreliable source really happened?

[Deleted]

Feb 14, 2014 21:33:53 GMT portofleith said:

Feb 14, 2014 21:24:03 GMT @privatecitizen said:

Yes, I know you claim to have the Ransacker list and I don't doubt that and I tend to believe that the list you have doesn't have his VR suspect (whom you refer to as military man) on it. However, you, guessting, and Arch have posted numerous times that whom you refer to as military man was his primary VR suspect. It is indicative of what I have said some LE have claimed about records being lost or altered about him if he isn't on the list.

McGowen knew darn well what he looked like. Yes, he described a different shooter. Now, put two and two together to see why and how what many have assumed to be case facts about this case are instead misrepresentations of the case and very misleading about Det. McGowen.

Military man was cleared by two jurisdictions? Why did guessting post his DNA was checked by four jurisdictions?

What do you mean by karate teacher?

Are you now implying McGowen's description that appeared in police files, the Fresno Bee Secret Witness descriptions and newspaper articles including comps are to be viewed as "misrepresentations"?  For the record, I have never said Military Man was McGowen's prime suspect.  There were plenty of excellent POI's in the vicinity.  I will state  also that I do not believe GSK was in black ops.  I , particularlyin the Smith case,  have looked closely at Maverick, as did the LE investigators early on.  There are interesting dynamics there, but none that I see related to a serial killer.  I have also looked at Phillip Arthur Thompson who was Black Ops and liked to kill women, but he was incarcerated and too tall to be EAR.  If I had to guess and I have stated this before.  EAR was a military or LE "wannabe".  He probably subscribed to "Soldier of Fortune", shopped at military supply stores and rehearsed make believe commando raids each night as he peeped and prowled.  I hope I have made myself clear on this.

I am implying no such thing.

You have posted before that the guy you are referring to as Military Man and whom I am referring to as McGowen's suspect was McGowen's VR suspect. Yeah, I know there were other excellent POI's in the vicinity. It still remains that Arch originally posted (I didn't post about him until much later) he was McGowen's prime suspect and you referred to the same guy in essentially the same way. Arch also posted that he'd never seen a better fit.

What did you mean by karate man?

What exactly are you referring to about the DNA tests when you say garbage?

[threetwozero]

I'm not sure if mm was on the vr suspect list that port is referring to. What I do know is mm was Mcgowens main suspect per his files. So, that leads to the question of how is mm Mcgowens suspect but not listed on the report port has?
In 77 Mcgowen goes to Sac and tries to link mm to ear. Per guess ting, Sac went to Mather and looked into mm. So what's the deal? If mm wasn't on the list of vr suspects, then why was he looked at by Sac after Mcgowen talked with them? Port, so what I'm saying is it doesn't make sense. If your list doesn't list mm, then what its telling me is there is something very fishy going on.

[Deleted]

Feb 14, 2014 21:37:20 GMT sfbay said:

Feb 14, 2014 21:13:12 GMT @privatecitizen said:

It was guessting that originally posted his DNA was checked by 4 jurisdictions. Did she delete her post about that? 

I kindly request that you retract your statement where you say I am the source of the information on these 4 alleged DNA tests, because it is false.    

Sure; to clarify -- regardless of where this rumor originated you are propagating it and seem to stand alone with what you're asserting. IMO, you are also embellishing these rumors in a manner which I can interpret as more than speculation.  Again, understand it would be criminal for LEO's to have knowingly allowed this to happen back then - and even if they did initially out of fear of repercussion, I would see them eventually speaking up as the crime scenes and bodies continued to mount.

@privatecitizen said:

Most of them have seen what happens if any LE try to do more and it's extremely naïve to think otherwise. Det. McGowen is no longer alive and people know he went to Sac attempting to make the case that the VR was EAR. He had repercussions for doing so.

Now it seems you're suggesting that McGowen was murdered for following-up? Please... no walls of text in response. Just something simple like a Yes or No, are you attempting to suggest McGowen was murdered in the statement above? 

What you are claiming I am suggesting is ridiculous, inflammatory, and patently false. I am in no way suggesting that Det. McGowen was murdered.

[Deleted]

Feb 14, 2014 21:56:07 GMT portofleith said:

Feb 14, 2014 21:48:05 GMT @privatecitizen said:

I am implying no such thing.

You have posted before that the guy you are referring to as Military Man and whom I am referring to as McGowen's suspect was McGowen's VR suspect. Yeah, I know there were other excellent POI's in the vicinity. It still remains that Arch originally posted (I didn't post about him until much later) he was McGowen's prime suspect and you referred to the same guy in essentially the same way. Arch also posted that he'd never seen a better fit.

What did you mean by karate man?

What exactly are you referring to about the DNA tests when you say garbage?

Now I see where your confusion may have originated.  The best POI I have seen in terms of time, motive and place in the Maggiore murders was a military man at Mather AFB .. . . not the Military Man you are referring to  though.  By garbage DNA  I mean that "chain of custody" procedures need to be adhered to.  



"Chain of custody" refers to the proper custody, or control, of the DNA samples throughout the testing process. First, it requires a neutral third party to properly identify the persons being tested and collect their DNA samples. Next, it requires the DNA samples and paperwork to be delivered to the testing location without being tampered with. Finally, it requires proper handling of the DNA and paperwork by a qualified laboratory."

Thanks. Are you claiming you know those things were followed in the DNA testing of whom I refer to as McGowen's suspect? If so, fill us all in on the details of how those things were followed and from where you are getting that information.

[Deleted]

Feb 14, 2014 21:58:35 GMT threetwozero said:

I'm not sure if mm was on the vr suspect list that port is referring to. What I do know is mm was Mcgowens main suspect per his files. So, that leads to the question of how is mm Mcgowens suspect but not listed on the report port has?
In 77 Mcgowen goes to Sac and tries to link mm to ear. Per guess ting, Sac went to Mather and looked into mm. So what's the deal? If mm wasn't on the list of vr suspects, then why was he looked at by Sac after Mcgowen talked with them? Port, so what I'm saying is it doesn't make sense. If your list doesn't list mm, then what its telling me is there is something very fishy going on.

Bingo.

[pessimisticoptimist]

Yes, it is possible that there is a global conspiracy that is covering for the suspect. However, possible does not necessarily mean even remotely probable. It would take a broad-based conspiracy (not just one or two dirty cops or prosecutors) to cover for a series of crimes of this magnitude. And for such a broad conspiracy to form, the perp would have to be some very significant VIP -- like Crown-Prince Charles, Teddy Kennedy, or Bill Clinton. And, at least so far as I know, at least two of them had good alibis. ;-)

We all have been disappointed when our favorite suspects have been cleared through tangible HARD evidence. But we get used to it. When you have a suspect who has 15 elements pointing to him being good for the crime, but then a 16th element pops-up that exonerates him, you re-focus your efforts on other suspects instead of continuing to waste your time on an innocent man. Of course, if you really like the first guy, you double- and triple-check the exonerating data. But eventually you have to accept reality and move-on with the investigation.

I suspect that this may be why your POI's DNA was quadruple-checked. He looked SOOOO good for the crime that the investigating officers were incredulous when they got the initial runs that they checked it again and again. The probably ran it through different labs. They probably even demanded fresh DNA from a new source for an independent cross-check. But eventually they had to accept the hard-data and then they moved-on to other potential suspects.

[Deleted]

Feb 14, 2014 23:15:54 GMT pessimisticoptimist said:

Yes, it is possible that there is a global conspiracy that is covering for the suspect. However, possible does not necessarily mean even remotely probable. It would take a broad-based conspiracy (not just one or two dirty cops or prosecutors) to cover for a series of crimes of this magnitude. And for such a broad conspiracy to form, the perp would have to be some very significant VIP -- like Crown-Prince Charles, Teddy Kennedy, or Bill Clinton. And, at least so far as I know, at least two of them had good alibis. ;-)

We all have been disappointed when our favorite suspects have been cleared through tangible HARD evidence. But we get used to it. When you have a suspect who has 15 elements pointing to him being good for the crime, but then a 16th element pops-up that exonerates him, you re-focus your efforts on other suspects instead of continuing to waste your time on an innocent man. Of course, if you really like the first guy, you double- and triple-check the exonerating data. But eventually you have to accept reality and move-on with the investigation.

I suspect that this may be why your POI's DNA was quadruple-checked. He looked SOOOO good for the crime that the investigating officers were incredulous when they got the initial runs that they checked it again and again. The probably ran it through different labs. They probably even demanded fresh DNA from a new source for an independent cross-check. But eventually they had to accept the hard-data and then they moved-on to other potential suspects.

Thanks for your post. I appreciate that it backs up the point I was trying to make. Happy Valentine's day!

[evaliant]

Feb 14, 2014 20:02:29 GMT portofleith said:

Feb 14, 2014 19:53:21 GMT @privatecitizen said:

I don't think most can fathom the purely selfish or odd ideological reasons why some people or groups of people do outrageous things and couldn't care less what happens to others as long as it suits their own purpose. Like others have pointed out, it only takes a relative few to derail things. Others know they can't do anything about it and carry on, because they're aware of what will happen to them if they don't and know there's nothing they can do about it. It doesn't matter if it's 1 or 100 or thousands of victims to some as long as it suits whatever purpose they've deemed worthy.

The "mob" couldn't exist and murder many people without some level of collusion from those who are supposed to protect us.
Hitler or any other dictator couldn't have carried out the extermination of people without the collusion and help from others.
The Vietnam and Iraq wars couldn't have happened without a relative few with power calling the shots to the detriment of many.
There couldn't have been the scores of sexual assaults and rapes of children by priests without people who are supposed to protect doing just the opposite.
There couldn't have been the multitude of rapes in the military, on college campuses, and in the general population without the collusion of others.
It goes on and on and there are plenty of people floating around who couldn't care less if 50 people are raped and 10 murdered if it suits their purpose.

How 'bout that DNA checked 4 times story! I personally love that one, especially considering that it's been claimed that he was never a viable suspect to begin with and had already been cleared in multiple ways.

I have the Ransacker suspect list.  All were young men. Military man is not on the list and please do not say the list was falsified at a later date.  McGowen described a completely different shooter and we have multiple descriptions of the Ransacker.  McGowen attended school with military man and obviously should have had no problem identifying someone he knew within inches of his face.  I have no idea what four DNA clearings of military man you are talking about.  MM was  cleared by two different jurisdictions and if you are referring to a third garbage run- sorry GIGO- garbage in garbage out.  (I find MM less confusing than the X, Y, Z and Mr T discussion)


I guess if the karate teacher does not pan out, then we start making other people fit into what we think we know.

Oh, sh**, I always knew Johnny Lawrence wouldn't turn out okay after Sensei Kreese...

Sorry, just thought the thread could use a little levity and Lepke is no where to be found.

Since my VIP spectrum question is being ignored because I feel like the majority of posters are familiar with this poi, I'll pose a different question that might help people like myself that aren't in the loop:

How did McGowen go from identifying a young offender to presumably being convinced the 37 year old military man PC has described in previous threads was the VR and EAR?