FLYER: Holy Alamo Cristian Church

[cleopatra]

Aug 30, 2018 10:25:24 GMT cleopatra said:

Aug 30, 2018 7:50:29 GMT trabuco said:

I don't believe any of the victims purposely chose the Colonial Parkway as their choice to pull over. The Colonial Parkway was the killer's preference imo.

Also, I have been thinking more about the diesel fuel. I don't know the Colonial Parkway area but I know some of you do. Let's just pretend for a minute that you were on the Colonial Parkway and you found yourself for whatever reason in need of a can of gasoline or diesel. What would be the quickest way, legal or illegal, to obtain the fuel and get back to the Parkway? Mind you, the killer returned with diesel fuel.

Cleo, can you search for military cases in Virginia and neighboring states, or the entire U.S. from the late 1970's to early 1980's where a male soldier was raped by fellow soldiers? Something similar to incident that Nick Turse talks about in his book 'Kill anything that moves.' Something has set the CPK off and has him out for retribution. There is also a good reason that the CPK would even attempt to kill someone imo. He thought he could kill and get away with it. But why? Because of who he was?

Anyway, I commend you all for keeping your thoughts flowing. I only wish I could research and find things like Cleo does. Well done Cleo. It is my opinion that a nugget will soon be found. If the CPK is still alive I know he is keeping up with this board and he is more nervous than he was a year ago. He is probably drinking more and making inquiries with LE about how the investigation is going. Just my opinion.

"military cases in Virginia and neighboring states, or the entire U.S. from the late 1970's to early 1980's where a male soldier was raped by fellow soldiers? Something similar to incident that Nick Turse talks about in his book 'Kill anything that moves.'

Trabuco,

I'll see what I can dig up on that.

I had the same thought - that something set the CPK off and whatever it was, set him off.

cleo

Trabuco,

Not much luck finding names of military men rape victims prior to 1986 in Virginia or anywhere else or any time for that matter.  I did find 4 though, and they were most definitely ruled out as being the CPK.  I've read a lot of material lately on the subject.  Men who have been raped are very unlikely to report the attack.  If the CPK is a veteran and was assaulted while serving, he most likely did not report it.  Sadly, a lot of men were assaulted by other soldiers during their service.  It damaged them more than their experiences in the battlefields did.

FYI - here's some literature on the subject:

psmag.com/social-justice/sexual-assault-against-servicemen-is-worse-than-we-thought

www.thedailybeast.com/retired-marine-reveals-secret-suffering-of-male-military-rape-victims

www.apa.org/pubs/journals/releases/ser-ser0000049.pdf

sapr.mil/public/docs/reports/FY16_Annual/FY16_SAPRO_Annual_Report.pdf

[(AQ)]

Cleo,

Yes! Males are much more hesitant to report rape, and that environment provides another strike from doing so, especially if one is bound and determined to be a serviceman. So until names surfaced and interviews held one might never know this fact, and even then it would be unlikely to be shared/uncovered. But a very interesting angle.

I was thinking more about the anger angle and went off into another direction that the more I think of, I find myself doubting, yet I also think it holds possibilities.

Wondering about a friend, acquaintance or schoolmate of Cathy's or Rebecca's, a male, who was upset that they were not interested in him. This could be a stranger, but, maybe, more likely someone they interacted with - from a study group, or other social outlet that was unaware of their sexual orientation or became enraged oversuch. Leaning toward a someone in Cathy's environment given most of us think there is some LE angle in play - could be from the base (tho unsure of that tie in or the school). They may have had or felt they did enough knowledge to play cop/park ranger. They may have known of the area or followed Cathy. They may know where to get fuel whether or not they realized they had diesel. The crime scene and subsequent burning indicate rage and a cover up. I'm confusing facts atm and my head is saying that the fire was a more spontaneous "coverup" vs part of a plan yet that would puts into question how/when the fuel came into play- left and returned ? with for another purpose? or for that purpose and completely planned out? This angle doesn't rule out the Christian/Alamo angle. It could be the final straw in taking their anger over rejection out on the couple.

I don't know about this theory, it sounds interesting on one hand yet I feel there are alot of holes. I however don't remember it being discussed on the board yet.

[cleopatra]

Sept 3, 2018 15:17:49 GMT (AQ) said:

Cleo,

Yes! Males are much more hesitant to report rape, and that environment provides another strike from doing so, especially if one is bound and determined to be a serviceman. So until names surfaced and interviews held one might never know this fact, and even then it would be unlikely to be shared/uncovered. But a very interesting angle.

I was thinking more about the anger angle and went off into another direction that the more I think of, I find myself doubting, yet I also think it holds possibilities.

Wondering about a friend, acquaintance or schoolmate of Cathy's or Rebecca's, a male, who was upset that they were not interested in him. This could be a stranger, but, maybe, more likely someone they interacted with - from a study group, or other social outlet that was unaware of their sexual orientation or became enraged oversuch. Leaning toward a someone in Cathy's environment given most of us think there is some LE angle in play - could be from the base (tho unsure of that tie in or the school). They may have had or felt they did enough knowledge to play cop/park ranger. They may have known of the area or followed Cathy. They may know where to get fuel whether or not they realized they had diesel. The crime scene and subsequent burning indicate rage and a cover up. I'm confusing facts atm and my head is saying that the fire was a more spontaneous "coverup" vs part of a plan yet that would puts into question how/when the fuel came into play- left and returned ? with for another purpose? or for that purpose and completely planned out? This angle doesn't rule out the Christian/Alamo angle. It could be the final straw in taking their anger over rejection out on the couple.

I don't know about this theory, it sounds interesting on one hand yet I feel there are alot of holes. I however don't remember it being discussed on the board yet.

When I was new to this case I considered that theory. More reading and thoughts into the first murder and the orher murders pulled me in other directions.

I felt that if the CPK did know the first victims and targeted them for reasons you speculated, he had many opportunities to attack - such as times and places, including their homes. The CPK would have had to either know exactly when and where they'd be in the CP, then hide and wait, or, follow them in which case they'd have seen him behind them on the road.

I hadn't altogether disregarded that theory, however, it made it's way to the very, very bottom of my list.

[(AQ)]

Great feedback, Cleo, thanks!



Read  10 Disturbing facts re CPM's today. Not alot new here, but they do comment on these things I find interesting:


In 2010, Virginia media was abuzz with the news that a 20-year-old note written by one of the murder victims supposedly named a person of interest. The note, which was written by Annamaria Phelps, was found by the victim’s sister-in-law. This note was then handed to Steve Spingola. Phelps’s letter included information about an individual who she was supposed to meet at a rest area. The note included information about the individual, the fact that he drove a blue van, and the man’s phone number. Spingola has yet to reveal the name on the note, but he told the media in 2010 that the note indicated that Phelps and Lauer were killed in an apparent robbery-gone-wrong.[9]For their part, the Virginia State Police said that they had investigated the note back in 1989, but one of the investigators attached to the case could not recall seeing or hearing about any note.


On Sunday, May 19, 1996, a same-sex couple, 24-year-old Julie Williams (left above) and 26-year-old Lollie Winans (right above), began their backpacking trip through the Shenandoah National Park with their Golden Retriever, Taj


I mention the 1st because I don't remember reading of the note before (tho, I've not read ALL that is out re CPM)

I mention the 2nd because I wonder if this case needs to be factored into the Dowski & Thomas murders; that together more progress will be made than looking at them individually, even if to rule out that they are linked.  

Also find it interesting that while all these murders involve couples, there are similarities in styles for not all, but at least 2 pairs of couples.

[cleopatra]

Sept 3, 2018 22:40:41 GMT (AQ) said:

Great feedback, Cleo, thanks!



Read  10 Disturbing facts re CPM's today. Not alot new here, but they do comment on these things I find interesting:


In 2010, Virginia media was abuzz with the news that a 20-year-old note written by one of the murder victims supposedly named a person of interest. The note, which was written by Annamaria Phelps, was found by the victim’s sister-in-law. This note was then handed to Steve Spingola. Phelps’s letter included information about an individual who she was supposed to meet at a rest area. The note included information about the individual, the fact that he drove a blue van, and the man’s phone number. Spingola has yet to reveal the name on the note, but he told the media in 2010 that the note indicated that Phelps and Lauer were killed in an apparent robbery-gone-wrong.[9]For their part, the Virginia State Police said that they had investigated the note back in 1989, but one of the investigators attached to the case could not recall seeing or hearing about any note.


On Sunday, May 19, 1996, a same-sex couple, 24-year-old Julie Williams (left above) and 26-year-old Lollie Winans (right above), began their backpacking trip through the Shenandoah National Park with their Golden Retriever, Taj


I mention the 1st because I don't remember reading of the note before (tho, I've not read ALL that is out re CPM)

I mention the 2nd because I wonder if this case needs to be factored into the Dowski & Thomas murders; that together more progress will be made than looking at them individually, even if to rule out that they are linked.  

Also find it interesting that while all these murders involve couples, there are similarities in styles for not all, but at least 2 pairs of couples.

I already went over all that, some time ago...

Spingola claimed, "note indicated that Phelps and Lauer were killed in an apparent robbery-gone-wrong". 

I personally do not think that Phelps' and Laurel's murders were results of a robbery gone bad.  The supposed robber had the means and ability to rob and flea.  Why bother with such an elaborate scenario?  Robber: Hmmm, this is going haywire.... I think I better just take these two to another location, then kill them, then lay them beside each other, then cover them with a blanket..... 

Although logic is not always the best way to figure out what went on in the mind of a killer during his attack, I believe in this case it seems more unlikely than likely that it was a robbery gone bad.  It reminds me of the Laci Peterson disappearance.  The very first thing that came to my mind when I heard about it on the news, when it FIRST happened, long before anything was known about the husband (who told everyone his home got robbed and his wife was missing) was:  What robber/robbers take a pregnant woman with them?  Robbery gone bad?  How would removing a pregnant lady from the crime scene fix that? Why not just kill and go?

In the case of Phelps and Laurel, as with the Laci Peterson case, if it was a robbery gone bad, why not just shoot and leave?

As with the Lace Peterson case, with Phelps and Laurel, there's a lot more than meets the eye involved there.

Of course, these are all just my personal opinions.

[cleopatra]

As I've stated already, the Alamo church preached dark messages.  The messages were reached by many, including NON-vulnerable audiences.  Vulnerable and already dark-sided individuals (now having excuses to act on their already contemplated crimes), could be easily manipulated into acting on the literal messages both read in pamphlets and heard in church and radio broadcasts.

I could truly see the CPK being either an ex-follower and even a current follower or fan of the church and/or Tony Alamo, or a staff member of the ministry.

below excerpts from link:  www.tonyalamonews.com/category/tony-alamos-secrets-exposed/httpwww-tonyalamonews-comsecrets-exposed/feed

"under windshield wipers in parking lots around the country. Claiming “homosexuality is caused by demon possession” and “the Vatican, the one-world government and church are spiritually powered by that old serpent called the Devil,” this white-hot propaganda comes straight from the mouth of a self-fashioned prophet and convicted tax cheat."

"anyone who left the church would burn in hell. Without the holy protection of the Alamos, the devil would kill them, turn them into homosexuals or make them insane."

"Sarah was kicked out at age 15 for kissing a young man that Alamo didn’t approve of; she says she’s glad to have been ejected from the church."

“What happened, I went out to Los Angeles, California . . . and there, I received a gospel tract that said, ‘Repent or perish—Jesus is coming soon. Services every night at eight o’clock.’ I went in there and I got saved, and the Lord changed my life—and that was 38 years ago,” said Tommy Scarcello, describing his religious epiphany in a deposition he gave last year. "

[trabuco]

Sept 3, 2018 23:09:15 GMT cleopatra said:

Sept 3, 2018 22:40:41 GMT (AQ) said:

Great feedback, Cleo, thanks!



Read  10 Disturbing facts re CPM's today. Not alot new here, but they do comment on these things I find interesting:


In 2010, Virginia media was abuzz with the news that a 20-year-old note written by one of the murder victims supposedly named a person of interest. The note, which was written by Annamaria Phelps, was found by the victim’s sister-in-law. This note was then handed to Steve Spingola. Phelps’s letter included information about an individual who she was supposed to meet at a rest area. The note included information about the individual, the fact that he drove a blue van, and the man’s phone number. Spingola has yet to reveal the name on the note, but he told the media in 2010 that the note indicated that Phelps and Lauer were killed in an apparent robbery-gone-wrong.[9]For their part, the Virginia State Police said that they had investigated the note back in 1989, but one of the investigators attached to the case could not recall seeing or hearing about any note.


On Sunday, May 19, 1996, a same-sex couple, 24-year-old Julie Williams (left above) and 26-year-old Lollie Winans (right above), began their backpacking trip through the Shenandoah National Park with their Golden Retriever, Taj


I mention the 1st because I don't remember reading of the note before (tho, I've not read ALL that is out re CPM)

I mention the 2nd because I wonder if this case needs to be factored into the Dowski & Thomas murders; that together more progress will be made than looking at them individually, even if to rule out that they are linked.  

Also find it interesting that while all these murders involve couples, there are similarities in styles for not all, but at least 2 pairs of couples.

I already went over all that, some time ago...

Spingola claimed, "note indicated that Phelps and Lauer were killed in an apparent robbery-gone-wrong". 

I personally do not think that Phelps' and Laurel's murders were results of a robbery gone bad.  The supposed robber had the means and ability to rob and flea.  Why bother with such an elaborate scenario?  Robber: Hmmm, this is going haywire.... I think I better just take these two to another location, then kill them, then lay them beside each other, then cover them with a blanket..... 

Although logic is not always the best way to figure out what went on in the mind of a killer during his attack, I believe in this case it seems more unlikely than likely that it was a robbery gone bad.  It reminds me of the Laci Peterson disappearance.  The very first thing that came to my mind when I heard about it on the news, when it FIRST happened, long before anything was known about the husband (who told everyone his home got robbed and his wife was missing) was:  What robber/robbers take a pregnant woman with them?  Robbery gone bad?  How would removing a pregnant lady from the crime scene fix that? Why not just kill and go?

In the case of Phelps and Laurel, as with the Laci Peterson case, if it was a robbery gone bad, why not just shoot and leave?

As with the Lace Peterson case, with Phelps and Laurel, there's a lot more than meets the eye involved there.

Of course, these are all just my personal opinions.

What's to rob?

They were just kids on a date.

[(AQ)]

Aug 25, 2018 21:25:53 GMT billthom56 said:

It is probably worth noting that all four of the spots where cars were found were known places for low level drug deals and homosexual cruising.

Thanks.
Sorry to deviate from the Holy Alamo Church on this, but it came up.  Will gladly take this conver to another thread if need be.

Thanks for understanding.


Bill Thomas

Trabuco said:


What's to rob?


They were just kids on a date.
--------------------------------------------------
From 10 Interesting facts;

Phelps’s letter included information about an individual who she was supposed to meet at a rest area. The note included information about the individual, the fact that he drove a blue van, and the man’s phone number

----------------------

Phelps was dating Lauers brother, so could this really have been a drug deal gone wrong?  Not saying that whomever she was to meet killed them, but, perhaps because, she had time to write (scribble?) a note about what was going
on so, was there some sort of trust that allowed the suspect to give her some free reign while he was assaulting  Lauer?

This might indicate that this crime IS NOT tied to the other CPK .... just a thought, no real proof beyond this but at the same time it is interesting that LE is keeping quiet re the note & any info around it.

[cleopatra]

Aug 25, 2018 10:42:02 GMT cleopatra said:

Re:  The two men from Holy Alamo Christian Church who were using a pay phone when an inflamed car coasted by them:

They assisted him, they protected him," FBI agent Donald Geisler testified this month in a Tampa courtroom, where Alamo was seeking bail. Geisler said former Alamo followers have told investigators that the group has access to automatic weapons and that "Mr. Alamo and his bodyguards should be considered armed and dangerous."
The contention that Alamo's group is armed or violent angers church followers. They point out that numerous searches have never turned up weapons on church property.
Ray Arauz, a Los Angeles follower of Alamo who the FBI said is an Alamo bodyguard, scoffed at such a contention.
"I am nobody's bodyguard," said Arauz, 41. "I have my own family to watch out for. This just shows the government harassment that is going on here. The whole thing is very unfair."

Retrieved from: articles.latimes.com/1991-07-28/local/me-450_1_tony-alamo

Simon Way; Donald Sweat; Joseph Orlando; Sally Demoulin;tommy Scarcello; Robert Streit; Larry Willis;william Duffield; Susan Duffield; douglas Brubach, Plaintiffs-appellants, v. Peter N. Georgiades; Robert A. Miller; Kody Miller; Careymiller; Justin Miller; Richard Miller; James Miller;robert Lee Miller Ave Maria Askey; Claudia Greiner;nannette Kelley, Defendants-appellees, 111 F.3d 139 (9th Cir. 1997)
U.S. Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit - 111 F.3d 139 (9th Cir. 1997)
Submitted April 17, 1997. *Decided April 21, 1997

Retrieved from:

law.justia.com/cases/federal/appellate-courts/F3/111/139/630683/

Additional Info:

DOUGLAS C. BRUBACH AKA DOUGLAS C. STREIT

- has resided in CA, AZ, Chesapeake VA, Virginia Beach VA, Arnold VA

RAY ARAUZ

- is related to Rod Arauz who lives in Virginia (Fairfax, Alexandria, Burke)

COMMONWEALTH COMMUNITY CHURCH

3701 Demille Court, Virginia Beach VA

Established:  1993

Pastor:  Douglas Streit (Unknown if this is the same Douglas Brubach AKA Douglas C. Streit)

RE:  DEC. 1984 - LISA SORRELL & SHANTA SORRELL
SHOT, CAR SET ON FIRE

Something alwaysquestioning posted in another thread  (possibly Unsolved Lovers Lane thread) caught my attention. It was about  the  SORRELL'S having been at the GREENBRIAR Mall visiting Santa the day they went missing.

Douglas Brubach once  resided in Arnold, Virginia and 3701 Demille Ct., Virginia Beach, right by the GREENBRIAR MALL.

The Holy Alamo Christian Ministry had a church in Texas (see unsolved lovers lane murders thread, 8/23/90 - Cheryl Henry, Andy Atkinson)

[billthom56]

Trabuco:

I like your determination!

Thanks.



Bill Thomas

[cleopatra]

Sept 4, 2018 21:57:32 GMT (AQ) said:

Aug 25, 2018 21:25:53 GMT billthom56 said:

"... spots where cars were found were known places for low level drug deals and homosexual cruising."

This detail strengthens the mission-oriented motive.  Those types of places would be his preferred hunting grounds for victims who he may have perceive as doing wrong.  That is, if he knew that kind of activity was going on there, and he probably did.  He may have believed that not only was he ridding society of bad apples, but also sending a message to others of what lay ahead for those who continued in the paths they were on, inside or around the parkway.  Maybe things slowed down a lot after he'd commit a brutal murder within the parkway.  A year later when the crimes were forgotten and fear subsided, things went back to the way they were, at which point maybe the CPK decided it was time for another message.

[cleopatra]

Sept 4, 2018 21:57:32 GMT (AQ) said:

Aug 25, 2018 21:25:53 GMT billthom56 said:

It is probably worth noting that all four of the spots where cars were found were known places for low level drug deals and homosexual cruising.

Thanks.
Sorry to deviate from the Holy Alamo Church on this, but it came up.  Will gladly take this conver to another thread if need be.

Thanks for understanding.


Bill Thomas

Trabuco said:


What's to rob?


They were just kids on a date.
--------------------------------------------------
From 10 Interesting facts;

Phelps’s letter included information about an individual who she was supposed to meet at a rest area. The note included information about the individual, the fact that he drove a blue van, and the man’s phone number

----------------------

Phelps was dating Lauers brother, so could this really have been a drug deal gone wrong?  Not saying that whomever she was to meet killed them, but, perhaps because, she had time to write (scribble?) a note about what was going
on so, was there some sort of trust that allowed the suspect to give her some free reign while he was assaulting  Lauer?

This might indicate that this crime IS NOT tied to the other CPK .... just a thought, no real proof beyond this but at the same time it is interesting that LE is keeping quiet re the note & any info around it.

trabuco,

I thought the mother had the note.  That she found it within her daughter's belongings that LE turned over to her, and when she asked LE about it she was told they looked into it, contacted the person named on the note and cleared that person. 

Am I wrong?

cleo

[trabuco]

Sept 14, 2018 10:43:51 GMT cleopatra said:

Sept 4, 2018 21:57:32 GMT (AQ) said:

Trabuco said:


What's to rob?


They were just kids on a date.
--------------------------------------------------
From 10 Interesting facts;

Phelps’s letter included information about an individual who she was supposed to meet at a rest area. The note included information about the individual, the fact that he drove a blue van, and the man’s phone number

----------------------

Phelps was dating Lauers brother, so could this really have been a drug deal gone wrong?  Not saying that whomever she was to meet killed them, but, perhaps because, she had time to write (scribble?) a note about what was going
on so, was there some sort of trust that allowed the suspect to give her some free reign while he was assaulting  Lauer?

This might indicate that this crime IS NOT tied to the other CPK .... just a thought, no real proof beyond this but at the same time it is interesting that LE is keeping quiet re the note & any info around it.

trabuco,

I thought the mother had the note.  That she found it within her daughter's belongings that LE turned over to her, and when she asked LE about it she was told they looked into it, contacted the person named on the note and cleared that person. 

Am I wrong?

cleo

Cleo, I think you mistakenly directed your question to me but I think Alwaysquestion is better suited to answer.

[trabuco]

Sept 14, 2018 7:21:43 GMT billthom56 said:

Trabuco:

I like your determination!

Thanks.



Bill Thomas

Thanks Bill.

Though it is your determination that reached out to this board and ignited my determination and that of others. I believe this case will be solved. Hang in there. 

[(AQ)]

Sept 14, 2018 20:53:51 GMT trabuco said:

Sept 14, 2018 10:43:51 GMT cleopatra said:

trabuco,

I thought the mother had the note.  That she found it within her daughter's belongings that LE turned over to her, and when she asked LE about it she was told they looked into it, contacted the person named on the note and cleared that person. 

Am I wrong?

cleo

Cleo, I think you mistakenly directed your question to me but I think Alwaysquestion is better suited to answer.

Here is the link from which the below is copied, scroll down to #4 The Findings of Det Spingola:  

In 2010, Virginia media was abuzz with the news that a 20-year-old note written by one of the murder victims supposedly named a person of interest. The note, which was written by Annamaria Phelps, was found by the victim’s sister-in-law. This note was then handed to Steve Spingola. Phelps’s letter included information about an individual who she was supposed to meet at a rest area. The note included information about the individual, the fact that he drove a blue van, and the man’s phone number. Spingola has yet to reveal the name on the note, but he told the media in 2010 that the note indicated that Phelps and Lauer were killed in an apparent robbery-gone-wrong.[9]For their part, the Virginia State Police said that they had investigated the note back in 1989, but one of the investigators attached to the case could not recall seeing or hearing about any note.