FLYER: Holy Alamo Cristian Church

[cleopatra]

In another thread entitled LE/Religion, a poster named cardinal mentioned that a religious flyer had been found on the floorboard inside the vehicle of the first crime in October 1986.

The flyer was of the Holy Alamo Christian Church/Ministries.  It's not known who the flyer belonged to or how it ended up inside the victim's car.

Possibilities:

(1) It was left by a follower on the windshield at an unknown date and place prior to the murders.  Victim pulled it off her windshield and placed it inside he car to be thrown away at a later time.

(2) A follower gave it to one of the victims on the day of or a few days prior to, the day of the murder.

(3) It belonged to the killer and he dropped it.  Either he didn't know it fell from his pocket or he did and didn't care since the car and everything inside was going to be burned.

(4) Killer presented it to victims and gave them a religious lecture before killing them.

The Holy Alamo Christiam Church was deemed to have been operating as a cult by the US Government.  The founder, Tony Alamo, was convicted of fraud and sex exploitation of young girl followers.  Tony Alamo brought young girls to other states, such as Virginia, to have sex with them.  He died in prison.

Apparently, the church's Facebook account is still active: www.facebook.com/pg/TonyAlamoChristianMinistries/videos/?ref=page_internal

I have researched this church and cannot find anything to show it operated in any way and at any time in the State of Virginia. The church sent followers to Los Angeles/Hollywood, Texas, and just a few other states, but not to Virginia.   It did not send any of its flowers to Virginia to preach or spread the word.  No workshops, no churches, no businesses, etc. 

How did a flyer that came from Arizona get all the way to Virginia?  Who did that flyer belong to?  Where did it come from?

[cleopatra]

I was just looking through the photos on the Facebook page of the Holy Alamo Christian Church.  I must say, the collection of photos and the messages appearing on many of those photos are pretty spooky.

[billthom56]

Aug 19, 2018 0:17:19 GMT cleopatra said:

In another thread entitled LE/Religion, a poster named cardinal mentioned that a religious flyer had been found on the floorboard inside the vehicle of the first crime in October 1986.

The flyer was of the Holy Alamo Christian Church/Ministries.  It's not known who the flyer belonged to or how it ended up inside the victim's car.

Possibilities:

(1) It was left by a follower on the windshield at an unknown date and place prior to the murders.  Victim pulled it off her windshield and placed it inside he car to be thrown away at a later time.

(2) A follower gave it to one of the victims on the day of or a few days prior to, the day of the murder.

(3) It belonged to the killer and he dropped it.  Either he didn't know it fell from his pocket or he did and didn't care since the car and everything inside was going to be burned.

(4) Killer presented it to victims and gave them a religious lecture before killing them.

The Holy Alamo Christiam Church was deemed to have been operating as a cult by the US Government.  The founder, Tony Alamo, was convicted of fraud and sex exploitation of young girl followers.  Tony Alamo brought young girls to other states, such as Virginia, to have sex with them.  He died in prison.

Apparently, the church's Facebook account is still active: www.facebook.com/pg/TonyAlamoChristianMinistries/videos/?ref=page_internal

I have researched this church and cannot find anything to show it operated in any way and at any time in the State of Virginia. The church sent followers to Los Angeles/Hollywood, Texas, and just a few other states, but not to Virginia.   It did not send any of its flowers to Virginia to preach or spread the word.  No workshops, no churches, no businesses, etc. 

How did a flyer that came from Arizona get all the way to Virginia?  Who did that flyer belong to?  Where did it come from?

Cleo:

Alamo had operations in Virgina. They used to record TV programs in Portsmouth, VA:

archive.org/details/TonyAndSusanAlamoChristianTelevisionProgram

Thanks.

Bill Thomas

[cleopatra]

Aug 19, 2018 20:00:29 GMT billthom56 said:

Aug 19, 2018 0:17:19 GMT cleopatra said:

In another thread entitled LE/Religion, a poster named cardinal mentioned that a religious flyer had been found on the floorboard inside the vehicle of the first crime in October 1986.

The flyer was of the Holy Alamo Christian Church/Ministries.  It's not known who the flyer belonged to or how it ended up inside the victim's car.

Possibilities:

(1) It was left by a follower on the windshield at an unknown date and place prior to the murders.  Victim pulled it off her windshield and placed it inside he car to be thrown away at a later time.

(2) A follower gave it to one of the victims on the day of or a few days prior to, the day of the murder.

(3) It belonged to the killer and he dropped it.  Either he didn't know it fell from his pocket or he did and didn't care since the car and everything inside was going to be burned.

(4) Killer presented it to victims and gave them a religious lecture before killing them.

The Holy Alamo Christiam Church was deemed to have been operating as a cult by the US Government.  The founder, Tony Alamo, was convicted of fraud and sex exploitation of young girl followers.  Tony Alamo brought young girls to other states, such as Virginia, to have sex with them.  He died in prison.

Apparently, the church's Facebook account is still active: www.facebook.com/pg/TonyAlamoChristianMinistries/videos/?ref=page_internal

I have researched this church and cannot find anything to show it operated in any way and at any time in the State of Virginia. The church sent followers to Los Angeles/Hollywood, Texas, and just a few other states, but not to Virginia.   It did not send any of its flowers to Virginia to preach or spread the word.  No workshops, no churches, no businesses, etc. 

How did a flyer that came from Arizona get all the way to Virginia?  Who did that flyer belong to?  Where did it come from?

Cleo:

Alamo had operations in Virgina. They used to record TV programs in Portsmouth, VA:

archive.org/details/TonyAndSusanAlamoChristianTelevisionProgram

Thanks.

Bill Thomas

I just looked on a map and saw that Portsmouth is near Norfolk and also right next to the Elizabeth River. The Elizabeth River runs alongside Portsmouth.

I wonder where the recording studio that they used was located and how many times they were there to record.  And why they were there recording, because the ministry didn't try opening any churches in Virginia. It appears, so far, that it was just there to do some recordings.  I wonder what MONTH and YEAR or MONTHS and YEARS those recordings were done in Portsmouth, VA.

[cleopatra]

Also, the flyer could have been left on the killer's car by a follower.

[billthom56]

Aug 20, 2018 0:01:52 GMT cleopatra said:

Aug 19, 2018 20:00:29 GMT billthom56 said:

Cleo:

Alamo had operations in Virginia. They used to record TV programs in Portsmouth, VA:

archive.org/details/TonyAndSusanAlamoChristianTelevisionProgram

Thanks.

Bill Thomas

I just looked on a map and saw that Portsmouth is near Norfolk and also right next to the Elizabeth River. The Elizabeth River runs alongside Portsmouth.

I wonder where the recording studio that they used was located and how many times they were there to record.  And why they were there recording, because the ministry didn't try opening any churches in Virginia. It appears, so far, that it was just there to do some recordings.  I wonder what MONTH and YEAR or MONTHS and YEARS those recordings were done in Portsmouth, VA.

Cleo:

My guess is that they both held services and recorded TV broadcasts there.

Odd coincidence:  The Gospel Spreading Church Farm on the Colonial Parkway (home of executed murder Michael Marnel Smith) was founded by Elder Solomon Michaux, who was one the first preachers to use radio as a way to evangelize, was based in the same area. The Gospel Spreading Church owned some of the land that was sold to the National Park Service to build the Colonial Parkway.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lightfoot_Solomon_Michaux

gospelspreadingchurch.org/our-founders-and-history.html

www.nytimes.com/2018/04/02/us/black-evangelist-elder-michaux-opposed-dr-king.html

Thanks.

Bill Thomas

[billthom56]

More on Alamo Christian Church from YouTube:

www.youtube.com/user/1RememberTheAlamo/about

From Tony and Susan Alamo Christian television programs and Susan Alamo Speaks Out programs. These programs were recorded in Hollywood, California, Nashville, Tennessee, Portsmouth, Virginia, Dyer, Arkansas, and Fort Smith, Arkansas, and nationally broadcast between 1973 and 1981.

Pastor Tony Alamo also produced a worldwide radio broadcast which can still be heard in several countries and many U.S. markets.

The broadcasts are also available at the Tony Alamo Christian Ministries website at: alamoministries.com/

If you have a hard time downloading from youtube, these videos can be downloaded at: archive.org/details/TonyAndSusanAlamoChristianTelevisionProgram and: archive.org/details/SusanAlamoSpeaksOut

Thanks.



Bill Thomas

[cleopatra]

Aug 20, 2018 4:41:42 GMT billthom56 said:

Aug 20, 2018 0:01:52 GMT cleopatra said:

I just looked on a map and saw that Portsmouth is near Norfolk and also right next to the Elizabeth River. The Elizabeth River runs alongside Portsmouth.

I wonder where the recording studio that they used was located and how many times they were there to record.  And why they were there recording, because the ministry didn't try opening any churches in Virginia. It appears, so far, that it was just there to do some recordings.  I wonder what MONTH and YEAR or MONTHS and YEARS those recordings were done in Portsmouth, VA.

Cleo:

My guess is that they both held services and recorded TV broadcasts there.

Odd coincidence:  The Gospel Spreading Church Farm on the Colonial Parkway (home of executed murder Michael Marnel Smith) was founded by Elder Solomon Michaux, who was one the first preachers to use radio as a way to evangelize, was based in the same area. The Gospel Spreading Church owned some of the land that was sold to the National Park Service to build the Colonial Parkway.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lightfoot_Solomon_Michaux

gospelspreadingchurch.org/our-founders-and-history.html

www.nytimes.com/2018/04/02/us/black-evangelist-elder-michaux-opposed-dr-king.html

Thanks.

Bill Thomas

I found this link which has a wealth of information about the Holy Alamo Christian Church. There's even a tab with a list of locations of their churches, none of which were located in Virginia. Court case details, workshops that were held, recruitment info, flyers, etc..... I could not find anything to place them in Virginia.

However, they sent flyers to people who requested them and wanted to place them on car windshields. But such requests were made online and in 1986 I don't think that was around yet. 

This ministry is very creepy and I can picture a guy who got inspired by this creepiness being the CPK. The preachings/messages it delivered to vulnerable and/or  dark-sided audiences was rhat sinners were bad and If they would not repent it was up to the churches followers to help spread  God's word until they would repent.

www.tonyalamonews.com

[billthom56]

Cleo:

Good stuff, thanks.



Bill Thomas

[cleopatra]

I am using a different device so its difficult to copy & paste right now. Try looking this article:

Bluefield Daily Telegraph Newspaper Archives
Monday, March 24, 1986 - Page 21

The Holy Alamo Christian people were briefly in Huntington and West Virginia in 1986. They wanted to open a church in Huntington but didn't end up doing that.

If the flyer found in Cathleen's car belonged to the killer it doesn't necessarily mean he was an Alamo follower. The killer could have pulled it off his windshield and just had it lying around in his car, then it came in handy when he tried to set the car on fire.

This is a hard clue to figure out. 

And I've been side tracked by my new discoveries concerning Ranger Clyde Yee.

[cleopatra]

But... A quick thought. If the flyer was the CPK's and he had it because he pulled it off his windshield, maybe he lived and/or worked in Huntington or West Virginia where some followers were placing them on windshields. 

I saw that the music recordings done in Portsmouth were done in the nineties. Their presence in both Huntington and West Virginia was in 1986.  Also, i believe Tony Alamo had a wife (1 of many) who was from Huntington VA.

[billthom56]

Cleo:

Thanks. Like you, I don't think the Alamo Christian Church flyer belonged in Cathy's car.


Bill

[cleopatra]

Aug 23, 2018 6:52:04 GMT billthom56 said:

Cleo:

Thanks. Like you, I don't think the Alamo Christian Church flyer belonged in Cathy's car.


Bill

I keep thinking about the flyer.  I was considering it may have been a red herring.  I reconsidered after a lot of contemplation over the crime scene.

It was messy.  It is obvious the guy screwed up and panicked when the fuel would not ignite.  Someone lighting a fire using gas would know it will ignite instantly, so would not stand too close to where the fire will be lit.  If the CPK mistakenly took gas along with him, it could be that he stole it as Trabuco speculated, believing the container was gas and not diesel.   He may have used the flyer to light then throw into the car.  It's hard to imagine that he'd have kept lighting one match after another and then throw it afar through the window. 

I believe the flyer came from the killer.  He either had it in his pocket, maybe took it out to preach to his victims, then either set it down and forgot about it or didn't care that it dropped because he thought it was going to be burned.  When the car didn't burn, the flyer was the farthest thing from his mind.  Those are just some thoughts I had.  Regardless if any of those things were the case, I believe the flyer came from the killer.

I believe he was a mission-oriented serial killer. I believe his crimes are connected to religion and/or maybe territorial.  I believe he was very aware of the Colonial Parkway road and side roads.  He may have driven on that road to get to and from work or school daily for a long time.   I don't think it had anything to do with his first victims being gay.  In my opinion he wasn't even aware it were two women in the car when he approached it.  I keep thinking this over and I really don't think there were two different killers out there killing pairs on/near the parkway at the same time period.   If it was due to  homosexuality, I would think there would be other extremely violent crimes against other gay couples at that time period in the area.   

[cleopatra]

If the first couple was killed for being gay, I would think the killer could have found an easier way and another place to kill them.  One not familiar with dark, dark, dark woods, lots of dirt, trees, water, rocks, especially the CP, would probably feel vulnerable committing a crime there..  Especially in the darkness, and deep in the woods.   If the killer knew they were gay, he also must have known more about them as well.  Maybe their residences, work, school, friends, restaurants, night clubs, etc.  Anything.  The killer could have gone to their homes and killed them. Or waited for them to get in their car in a parking lot.  If the killer followed them, the victim's would have noticed. 

The Colonial Parkway is such a specific area - dark, wooded.  It was this killer's chosen hunting grounds.  The CPK probably did this several times prior to that night:  Drove around watching to see where lovers parked, then watched to see what the traffic was like in the middle of the night in that spot while a couple was parked there.  Pretended to himself that he was a person just passing by, so he drove by the parked lovers a few times to get an idea of what others would see if he were committing his crime in that spot.  Then parked his car away from the selected crime spot and walked over to the crime spot and looked to see if his victims would be able to see his car parked across from them in the dark.  Returned to that spot every night and waited in the dark for a couple to park there.  I believe this was why the couple was killed there - because they were on his hunting ground - the Colonial Parkway, and not because they were gay. 

The other couples may not have been parked, but instead their car/truck was moving and they were pulled over by the CPK near where their vehicles were found.  Perhaps they just pulled away from somewhere they were parked.

[hoth]

A couple things that I find interesting about this theory:

1. If you want to take highway from Portsmouth to Huntington, WV it looks like one of your best paths takes you through the Colonial Parkway. These are two places mentioned related to this church

2. The viciousness with which the attacks were conducted make them seem personal. Yet they do not appear to be personal in the sense that the victims knew the killer. A strong religious motive could lead to the extreme anger and rage which the killer appeared to evidence. I don’t think the couple was necessarily targeted initially because they were gay but maybe because they were sinners. Hence the couples at lovers lanes being targeted.

3. Covering the victims could speak to a “morality” and guilt at play that the victims deserved to die yet the dead deserved some respect and an unconscious or even conscious recognition that killing is wrong.