CONSIDER THIS?

[eastcoast2]

Feb 17, 2019 0:10:48 GMT f1guyus said:

Feb 16, 2019 23:38:49 GMT eastcoast2 said:

A gnawing question I have is, how convinced was LE that EAR was a cop. They obviously know much more then they released to the public. If LE was 50%+ sure EAR was a cop, they had an obligation to develop a 30 or so mile area map around Sacramento, and list all the various local Police Departments within the area. Then at least they would have a database of every potential suspect. Its interesting that if they did this and Visalia did the same, then for sure we know one name that would interestingly appear on both lists. While not everyone agreed EAR was VR, many did. While not everyone was convinced or wanted to admit EAR was a cop, many did. If this effort was undertaken (and it would not have been that manpower intensive honestly), and they could have gotten some administrative volunteers to do it, then this case might have been solved much sooner.

I can’t speak for the Sac Sheriffs or Sac PD. My wife and I had conversations with two sworn officers re EAR. One was a female evidence technician for the San Joaquin Sheriffs. She processed both Stockton crime scenes and interviewed both Stockton victims as well as six of the Sacramento victims. Her comment to my wife was “Don’t plan on us catching this guy. He knows the rules of evidence”. The other was a female officer employed by the local community college. At dinner one night right after the first Stockton attack she was much more definite. “He’s a cop”. Take all that for what you think it’s worth.

Exactly. Too many seasoned cops seem to have know this guys was one of their own. But (I guess) because of the obvious embarrassment saying so would have caused, LE never even say they think its a cop. Maybe they feared it would have caused some sort of panic, and I get that. But they should have worked the cop angle behind the scenes, and I have never heard any inkling that they did.

[Captain]

I wish I had this all-revealing magic crystal ball that you guys think law enforcement had back then.

Even if you believe an offender is a police officer, what makes you think it would be obvious as to who it is exactly? What are you going to do? Put 24/7 surveillance on every cop in the county you * dolts? What makes you think JJD did anything that would raise a red flag under the scope of a routine investigation? Oh, the shoplifting right?! Every cop who shoplifts or gets kicked off the force for something non-sexual in nature must be a serial rapist right? JJD clearly didn't raise any red flags for a MULTITUDE of reasons.

So, how do you explain every other cold case including those from recent times? Police and/or the government protecting offenders right?

How many of you have actually served as an officer let alone back then when law enforcement was still learning the craft? I find it hilarious how all of you are literally nobodies in the world of crime & law enforcement yet you think you're a pro because you read about cases on Reddit or listen to True Crime Garage etc. Know your role and don't pretend you know more than the actual professionals who solve these crimes.

Look, I get it guys, not much is happening with the case at the moment so you've got to explore these exciting theories to keep the case from getting boring and mundane. Find a different case if you're that bored.

[nick]

Feb 16, 2019 19:51:07 GMT @endoftheworld said:

Feb 16, 2019 15:22:15 GMT wm3guilty said:

It's always easy to Monday Morning Quarterback these situations, but things were different then. Police Departments didn't share information. We didn't have the internet or the forensics we have today. LE techniques have since improved.

All of that needs to be considered before we act like we are better than the detectives.

Joe wasn't on ANYONE's radar until his DNA was matched with him after a lengthy process of going down a big family tree.

Sac detectives did know about the Visalia Ransacker, and they knew the VR quit attacking in Visalia at about the time the EAR rapes began. Still they did not put two and two together.

Also, how do you know JJD was not on anyone's radar back then? The answer: you don't. Maybe he was caught in the neighborhood of a crime and just flashed his badge and was let go, as has often been suspected on this board. In fact, maybe he was a poi for a while. Who knows? Most of Sac LE probably don't even remember who the suspects were by now and if they do remember, they are not telling anybody. Omerta.

I can say with great certainty JJD was NOT on anyone's radar in LE.  I can also tell you this if JJD was radar of LE and even down to  an individual in LE they would be jumping up and down and telling everyone "they got it right" and that just is not happening because JJD was not on any agencies POI list and I have been looking since he was captured trust me. I have seen a ton of names on lists all different kinds of EAR lists that have surfaced and he was just not suspected plain and simple.

[debris]

Feb 17, 2019 1:14:49 GMT Captain said:

I wish I had this all-revealing magic crystal ball that you guys think law enforcement had back then.

Even if you believe an offender is a police officer, what makes you think it would be obvious as to who it is exactly? What are you going to do? Put 24/7 surveillance on every cop in the county you * dolts? What makes you think JJD did anything that would raise a red flag under the scope of a routine investigation? Oh, the shoplifting right?! Every cop who shoplifts or gets kicked off the force for something non-sexual in nature must be a serial rapist right? JJD clearly didn't raise any red flags for a MULTITUDE of reasons.

So, how do you explain every other cold case including those from recent times? Police and/or the government protecting offenders right?

How many of you have actually served as an officer let alone back then when law enforcement was still learning the craft? I find it hilarious how all of you are literally nobodies in the world of crime & law enforcement yet you think you're a pro because you read about cases on Reddit or listen to True Crime Garage etc. Know your role and don't pretend you know more than the actual professionals who solve these crimes.

Look, I get it guys, not much is happening with the case at the moment so you've got to explore these exciting theories to keep the case from getting boring and mundane. Find a different case if you're that bored.

Thank you, Captain.   I am oh, so weary of hearing the bashing of 1970's LE.  They did their best.  I don't blame them for my mother's death. 
JJD was a master of manipulation.  
Blame him. NOT them.  

-Deb 

[goldcountry]

Modern technology means modern JJDs are being shut down before they can get these long streaks. With JJD the media complied with sheriff demands to conceal the first EAR rapes. Citizen efforts were limited to things like the CB patrols. The internet would have identified a series and alerted the public. Also women living alone are much more common today, and affordable home security has changed the playing field. Today JJD would be identified through DNA, public or home cameras,  cellphone data or shot by an armed woman.

[nick]

I also feel the need to say JJD not being on a POI list is not because LE was not trying to apprehend him he just was not ever turned into a POI by anyone including his immediate family. JJD was able to keep himself off the lists with considerable effort on his part by sticking to the compartmentalizing he had got so good at displaying to everyone around him. 

[Captain]

I can honestly say I don't envy law enforcement, past or present, especially in high profile cases like this one. They are one of the few groups of people in our society who are constantly ridiculed, told how to do their job by unqualified members of the public, & are often characterized solely on the actions of the ultra small % of corrupt/unprofessional officers in their ranks.

Even when LE solves crimes, there are droves of people who will still nitpick and critique the investigation. Of course we all wish JJD was caught and stopped decades ago but as Deb said, they did their best.

Whenever I see Carol Daley, Shelby, Crompton, Larry Pool, & Paul Holes speak during an interview I can see in their eyes how much this case affected them & how sincere they were in their quest to solve this case. To say they were anything but professional, dedicated, & sincere in their work is beyond ignorant. I have zero doubt in my mind that everyone who worked this case wanted nothing more than to see this solved.

I truly wish those who repeatedly bash law enforcement would take a minute and just imagine the stress & pressure of the job. Beyond the stress of constantly putting yourself in potentially fatal situations, think of the stress that comes with doing everything in your power to catch a serial predator and to bring justice to the victims & their families but coming up short day after day. I remember very distinctly Larry Crompton talking about laying awake at night wondering what clue he had missed and what he could've done better to solve this case. Can you imagine how taxing that is on somebody especially when it goes on for years and years? Most of us will never have that weight on our shoulders.

I know this is a long post but the police bashing on this board is unwarranted and born out of nothing more than ignorance.

[dougguard]

Feb 17, 2019 4:26:51 GMT nick said:

I also feel the need to say JJD not being on a POI list is not because LE was not trying to apprehend him he just was not ever turned into a POI by anyone including his immediate family. JJD was able to keep himself off the lists with considerable effort on his part by sticking to the compartmentalizing he had got so good at displaying to everyone around him. 

Nick!

Thanks for the reply. Another consideration that befuddles me is why JJD did not retaliate against so many involved in his case? Sure, he threatened his boss when he was fired and even stalked him. But, so many people were left alone. The prosecutor in his shoplifting case, the store people who caught and restrained him and his lawyer for failing to win an acquittal? The investigators who talked about his small penis and the female criminologist from Orange County who made the ONS/EAR connection?

All these people apparantly have suffered no Repercussions for their involvement? He threatened his neighbors for their barking dog but no effort to harm those he knew were closing in in him? Of course there may be evidence he was stalking some and very good chance he was driving around areas of old victims but no real evidence of retaliation?

Some may remember he made a threat to the press that he would kill his next two victims and sure enough a totally innocent couple were killed in Rancho Cordova? He attacked a Random couple just a block from Dr. Gilmartins office but never bothered the good doctor? See the pattern? Was psychotic about Bonnie(jilted) and by proxy hurt so many women in her name but never harmed the actual Bonnie or her family?

Just a few things to consider in this case?

[Deleted]

Feb 17, 2019 4:26:51 GMT nick said:

I also feel the need to say JJD not being on a POI list is not because LE was not trying to apprehend him he just was not ever turned into a POI by anyone including his immediate family. JJD was able to keep himself off the lists with considerable effort on his part by sticking to the compartmentalizing he had got so good at displaying to everyone around him. 

Was he ever stopped in suspicious circumstances or interviewed at all in connection to the case?

[Deleted]

Feb 16, 2019 23:00:50 GMT f1guyus said:

I guess I could accept the excuse that Sacramento County didn’t have the resources to check out another department 40? minutes up the road. After all the only offenses EAR was responsible for were 25 rapes and 2 murders. But, he got arrested for shoplifting in the Sac Sheriffs jurisdiction, by the Sac Sheriffs and waltzed thru the Sacramento County justice system. All the way to a guilty verdict in court. 10 people in SoCal died horrible deaths subsequent to this.
And I still want to know who JJD went to school with in Sacramento.

Yes, at this point f1guyus can not even find out who JJD went to school with in Sacramento. Will this ever be revealed?

[goldcountry]

Feb 17, 2019 5:54:03 GMT dougguard said:

Feb 17, 2019 4:26:51 GMT nick said:

I also feel the need to say JJD not being on a POI list is not because LE was not trying to apprehend him he just was not ever turned into a POI by anyone including his immediate family. JJD was able to keep himself off the lists with considerable effort on his part by sticking to the compartmentalizing he had got so good at displaying to everyone around him. 

Nick!

Thanks for the reply. Another consideration that befuddles me is why JJD did not retaliate against so many involved in his case? Sure, he threatened his boss when he was fired and even stalked him. But, so many people were left alone. The prosecutor in his shoplifting case, the store people who caught and restrained him and his lawyer for failing to win an acquittal? The investigators who talked about his small penis and the female criminologist from Orange County who made the ONS/EAR connection?

All these people apparantly have suffered no Repercussions for their involvement? He threatened his neighbors for their barking dog but no effort to harm those he knew were closing in in him? Of course there may be evidence he was stalking some and very good chance he was driving around areas of old victims but no real evidence of retaliation?

Some may remember he made a threat to the press that he would kill his next two victims and sure enough a totally innocent couple were killed in Rancho Cordova? He attacked a Random couple just a block from Dr. Gilmartins office but never bothered the good doctor? See the pattern? Was psychotic about Bonnie(jilted) and by proxy hurt so many women in her name but never harmed the actual Bonnie or her family?

Just a few things to consider in this case?

Good points. But being a cop he knew investigators start with  those closest to the victim and work outwards. JJD would know if his name popped up in any investigation it could bring The Heat. Pop up in 2 or more cases and it would make a pattern. He especially dared not go anywhere near Bonnie or her new flame.

Given these facts his stalking of the Auburn Chief Willick was foolish of JJD, as was telling his shrink - as a cop he should've known about mental health threat-reporting protocols. He also may have stalked one of the investigators at home, and shortly before his capture one of the victims received what she thought was an EAR call. So as we saw with the shoplifting bust, JJD was capable of slipping up.

[f1guyus]

I’ve given serious thought to driving up to Sacramento, going to the main public library, and asking if they have a high school yearbook from JJD’s time there. I’m guessing the library has them. Maybe one of you Sac folks can save me the trip. Going on the freeway is fast losing its appeal for the old guy.

[Deleted]

Feb 17, 2019 7:27:37 GMT @endoftheworld said:

Feb 17, 2019 4:26:51 GMT nick said:

I also feel the need to say JJD not being on a POI list is not because LE was not trying to apprehend him he just was not ever turned into a POI by anyone including his immediate family. JJD was able to keep himself off the lists with considerable effort on his part by sticking to the compartmentalizing he had got so good at displaying to everyone around him. 

Was he ever stopped in suspicious circumstances or interviewed at all in connection to the case?

He was tied to a chair “in suspicious circumstances”.

[Captain]

Feb 17, 2019 16:22:59 GMT goldcountry said:

Feb 17, 2019 5:54:03 GMT dougguard said:

Nick!

Thanks for the reply. Another consideration that befuddles me is why JJD did not retaliate against so many involved in his case? Sure, he threatened his boss when he was fired and even stalked him. But, so many people were left alone. The prosecutor in his shoplifting case, the store people who caught and restrained him and his lawyer for failing to win an acquittal? The investigators who talked about his small penis and the female criminologist from Orange County who made the ONS/EAR connection?

All these people apparantly have suffered no Repercussions for their involvement? He threatened his neighbors for their barking dog but no effort to harm those he knew were closing in in him? Of course there may be evidence he was stalking some and very good chance he was driving around areas of old victims but no real evidence of retaliation?

Some may remember he made a threat to the press that he would kill his next two victims and sure enough a totally innocent couple were killed in Rancho Cordova? He attacked a Random couple just a block from Dr. Gilmartins office but never bothered the good doctor? See the pattern? Was psychotic about Bonnie(jilted) and by proxy hurt so many women in her name but never harmed the actual Bonnie or her family?

Just a few things to consider in this case?

Good points. But being a cop he knew investigators start with  those closest to the victim and work outwards. JJD would know if his name popped up in any investigation it could bring The Heat. Pop up in 2 or more cases and it would make a pattern. He especially dared not go anywhere near Bonnie or her new flame.

Given these facts his stalking of the Auburn Chief Willick was foolish of JJD, as was telling his shrink - as a cop he should've known about mental health threat-reporting protocols. He also may have stalked one of the investigators at home, and shortly before his capture one of the victims received what she thought was an EAR call. So as we saw with the shoplifting bust, JJD was capable of slipping up.

JJD certainly evolved and got smarter as time went on unlike killers like Bundy and Israel Keyes.

I think it's important to remember that things progress and change a lot slower in real time than they seem to in hindsight. When JJD slipped up with the Nick Willick episode etc, I doubt he fully envisioned what he would go on to do because if he had, I am positive he would've been more careful.

At the same time, none of those slip-ups would've pointed to him being EAR at the time. People lose their cool and threaten people all of the time, especially men. Every man in the work force, regardless of field, knows a hothead who has threatened a manager or boss. That doesn't make them a violent sexual predator. Every one also has to remember the Sacramento area has a HUGE population. It's often painted as being smaller than it actually is but you're talking hundreds of thousands of people in that area. JJD was just another fish in a vast sea.

[Deleted]

Feb 17, 2019 16:30:05 GMT f1guyus said:

I’ve given serious thought to driving up to Sacramento, going to the main public library, and asking if they have a high school yearbook from JJD’s time there. I’m guessing the library has them. Maybe one of you Sac folks can save me the trip. Going on the freeway is fast losing its appeal for the old guy.

What ever happened to "journalism"? You would think newspapers, magazines, and documentaries would be all over this case by now, interviewing everybody that was ever close to JJD---family, school, work, and neighborhood. 

There has not been much so far. The long-touted LA Times article has not yet made it to newsstands, as far as I know.

I guess all journalists have agreed to shut up for now to help ensure a clean jury pool.

I wonder if there is some documentary production already underway which is steadily interviewing everybody possible, but which will not be released until after the trial.