CONSIDER THIS?

[sammyt]

Feb 17, 2019 5:02:01 GMT Captain said:

I can honestly say I don't envy law enforcement, past or present, especially in high profile cases like this one. They are one of the few groups of people in our society who are constantly ridiculed, told how to do their job by unqualified members of the public, & are often characterized solely on the actions of the ultra small % of corrupt/unprofessional officers in their ranks.

Even when LE solves crimes, there are droves of people who will still nitpick and critique the investigation. Of course we all wish JJD was caught and stopped decades ago but as Deb said, they did their best.

Whenever I see Carol Daley, Shelby, Crompton, Larry Pool, & Paul Holes speak during an interview I can see in their eyes how much this case affected them & how sincere they were in their quest to solve this case. To say they were anything but professional, dedicated, & sincere in their work is beyond ignorant. I have zero doubt in my mind that everyone who worked this case wanted nothing more than to see this solved.

I truly wish those who repeatedly bash law enforcement would take a minute and just imagine the stress & pressure of the job. Beyond the stress of constantly putting yourself in potentially fatal situations, think of the stress that comes with doing everything in your power to catch a serial predator and to bring justice to the victims & their families but coming up short day after day. I remember very distinctly Larry Crompton talking about laying awake at night wondering what clue he had missed and what he could've done better to solve this case. Can you imagine how taxing that is on somebody especially when it goes on for years and years? Most of us will never have that weight on our shoulders.

I know this is a long post but the police bashing on this board is unwarranted and born out of nothing more than ignorance.

Or you could say the police failed to announce to the public that a serial rapist was on the loose, failed to share information with other forces throughout this case, threw away forensic evidence, arrested an innocent man in Joe Alsip, messed up the 7/11 stakeout, messed up another stakeout by parking a patrol car next door, neglected to make composite sketches of the 7/11 and realtor suspects, insisted EAR was exactly 5'9" when he wasn't, eliminated suspects based on reported penis size, took ten years to approve a dna test for a former case detective's pet suspect, ignored Visalia PD about the VR links, wasted time investigating 13 year old suspects etc etc etc...

IMO this investigation was a hot mess from start to finish.  You're entitled to a different opinion of course, but let's not pretend that every cop played a perfect game.

Nobody is bashing the cops for just the sake of it.  Some people don't have a dog in the fight, but it's hardly ignorant to highlight that the police were far from professional on many occasions.

And let's not forgot that it was an active cop who was the actual rapist all along.

[Captain]

Feb 17, 2019 20:18:16 GMT sammyt said:

Feb 17, 2019 5:02:01 GMT Captain said:

I can honestly say I don't envy law enforcement, past or present, especially in high profile cases like this one. They are one of the few groups of people in our society who are constantly ridiculed, told how to do their job by unqualified members of the public, & are often characterized solely on the actions of the ultra small % of corrupt/unprofessional officers in their ranks.

Even when LE solves crimes, there are droves of people who will still nitpick and critique the investigation. Of course we all wish JJD was caught and stopped decades ago but as Deb said, they did their best.

Whenever I see Carol Daley, Shelby, Crompton, Larry Pool, & Paul Holes speak during an interview I can see in their eyes how much this case affected them & how sincere they were in their quest to solve this case. To say they were anything but professional, dedicated, & sincere in their work is beyond ignorant. I have zero doubt in my mind that everyone who worked this case wanted nothing more than to see this solved.

I truly wish those who repeatedly bash law enforcement would take a minute and just imagine the stress & pressure of the job. Beyond the stress of constantly putting yourself in potentially fatal situations, think of the stress that comes with doing everything in your power to catch a serial predator and to bring justice to the victims & their families but coming up short day after day. I remember very distinctly Larry Crompton talking about laying awake at night wondering what clue he had missed and what he could've done better to solve this case. Can you imagine how taxing that is on somebody especially when it goes on for years and years? Most of us will never have that weight on our shoulders.

I know this is a long post but the police bashing on this board is unwarranted and born out of nothing more than ignorance.

Or you could say the police failed to announce to the public that a serial rapist was on the loose, failed to share information with other forces throughout this case, threw away forensic evidence, arrested an innocent man in Joe Alsip, messed up the 7/11 stakeout, messed up another stakeout by parking a patrol car next door, neglected to make composite sketches of the 7/11 and realtor suspects, insisted EAR was exactly 5'9" when he wasn't, eliminated suspects based on reported penis size, took ten years to approve a dna test for a former case detective's pet suspect, ignored Visalia PD about the VR links, wasted time investigating 13 year old suspects etc etc etc...

IMO this investigation was a hot mess from start to finish.  You're entitled to a different opinion of course, but let's not pretend that every cop played a perfect game.

Nobody is bashing the cops for just the sake of it.  Some people don't have a dog in the fight, but it's hardly ignorant to highlight that the police were far from professional on many occasions.

And let's not forgot that it was an active cop who was the actual rapist all along.

First of all, the cop bashing is ignorant and unwarranted. You have ZERO proof there was any wrong doing done on purpose. PM me and we'll exchange PayPal information because I would gladly take a bet with you regarding proof of misconduct, or lack thereof. There is a difference between misconduct and making honest mistakes.

Second, had these agencies dealt with a predator like EAR before? No. If you think you could've done a better job then you are seriously delusional. How long have you been a detective? Did you serve in that era when law enforcement was still experiencing serious growing pains?

Third, do you understand the concept of "hindsight" & how one's perception of an event is altered by it compared to how people perceive it as an event is happening? Apparently not.

Look, I get it bro, you're an expert detective but times were much different then. Research any well-known case from that era and you'll see PLENTY of honest mistakes made by law enforcement. There are still mistakes made in current cases.

I am glad that you are perfect in whatever job you do but law enforcement isn't a perfect science and especially wasn't then.

I have zero issue with cracking down on police corruption and willful misconduct but I do take issue with smug jackasses like you who sit in your lazy boy recliner "researching" cases and pass judgement as if your opinion is actually worth a *.

[Deleted]

Feb 17, 2019 20:18:16 GMT sammyt said:

Feb 17, 2019 5:02:01 GMT Captain said:

I can honestly say I don't envy law enforcement, past or present, especially in high profile cases like this one. They are one of the few groups of people in our society who are constantly ridiculed, told how to do their job by unqualified members of the public, & are often characterized solely on the actions of the ultra small % of corrupt/unprofessional officers in their ranks.

Even when LE solves crimes, there are droves of people who will still nitpick and critique the investigation. Of course we all wish JJD was caught and stopped decades ago but as Deb said, they did their best.

Whenever I see Carol Daley, Shelby, Crompton, Larry Pool, & Paul Holes speak during an interview I can see in their eyes how much this case affected them & how sincere they were in their quest to solve this case. To say they were anything but professional, dedicated, & sincere in their work is beyond ignorant. I have zero doubt in my mind that everyone who worked this case wanted nothing more than to see this solved.

I truly wish those who repeatedly bash law enforcement would take a minute and just imagine the stress & pressure of the job. Beyond the stress of constantly putting yourself in potentially fatal situations, think of the stress that comes with doing everything in your power to catch a serial predator and to bring justice to the victims & their families but coming up short day after day. I remember very distinctly Larry Crompton talking about laying awake at night wondering what clue he had missed and what he could've done better to solve this case. Can you imagine how taxing that is on somebody especially when it goes on for years and years? Most of us will never have that weight on our shoulders.

I know this is a long post but the police bashing on this board is unwarranted and born out of nothing more than ignorance.

Or you could say the police failed to announce to the public that a serial rapist was on the loose, failed to share information with other forces throughout this case, threw away forensic evidence, arrested an innocent man in Joe Alsip, messed up the 7/11 stakeout, messed up another stakeout by parking a patrol car next door, neglected to make composite sketches of the 7/11 and realtor suspects, insisted EAR was exactly 5'9" when he wasn't, eliminated suspects based on reported penis size, took ten years to approve a dna test for a former case detective's pet suspect, ignored Visalia PD about the VR links, wasted time investigating 13 year old suspects etc etc etc...

IMO this investigation was a hot mess from start to finish.  You're entitled to a different opinion of course, but let's not pretend that every cop played a perfect game.

Nobody is bashing the cops for just the sake of it.  Some people don't have a dog in the fight, but it's hardly ignorant to highlight that the police were far from professional on many occasions.

And let's not forgot that it was an active cop who was the actual rapist all along.

Good points, sammyt. The original poster on this thread was asking basically: "how did this happen?", and it's a good question. Why did they destroy all evidence? Yeah I know---not enough ROOM. Well OK, then. The EAR in Sacramento had a very long string of time-consuming home invasion rapes. The Sac cops never caught him. Why?

So any criticism of the police is "ignorant"? This is an ad hominem attack (name-calling) and is used when the attacker has no logical attack.

I don't hate cops but Sac LE failed miserably with the EAR, and they deserve to be criticized. They are still receiving their pension checks. Nobody is going to be bringing up charges of police negligence at this late date. They are big boys and girls; they can take a little criticism.

[sammyt]

Feb 17, 2019 20:47:43 GMT Captain said:

Feb 17, 2019 20:18:16 GMT sammyt said:

Or you could say the police failed to announce to the public that a serial rapist was on the loose, failed to share information with other forces throughout this case, threw away forensic evidence, arrested an innocent man in Joe Alsip, messed up the 7/11 stakeout, messed up another stakeout by parking a patrol car next door, neglected to make composite sketches of the 7/11 and realtor suspects, insisted EAR was exactly 5'9" when he wasn't, eliminated suspects based on reported penis size, took ten years to approve a dna test for a former case detective's pet suspect, ignored Visalia PD about the VR links, wasted time investigating 13 year old suspects etc etc etc...

IMO this investigation was a hot mess from start to finish.  You're entitled to a different opinion of course, but let's not pretend that every cop played a perfect game.

Nobody is bashing the cops for just the sake of it.  Some people don't have a dog in the fight, but it's hardly ignorant to highlight that the police were far from professional on many occasions.

And let's not forgot that it was an active cop who was the actual rapist all along.

First of all, the cop bashing is ignorant and unwarranted. You have ZERO proof there was any wrong doing done on purpose. PM me and we'll exchange PayPal information because I would gladly take a bet with you regarding proof of misconduct, or lack thereof. There is a difference between misconduct and making honest mistakes.

Second, had these agencies dealt with a predator like EAR before? No. If you think you could've done a better job then you are seriously delusional. How long have you been a detective? Did you serve in that era when law enforcement was still experiencing serious growing pains?

Third, do you understand the concept of "hindsight" & how one's perception of an event is altered by it compared to how people perceive it as an event is happening? Apparently not.

Look, I get it bro, you're an expert detective but times were much different then. Research any well-known case from that era and you'll see PLENTY of honest mistakes made by law enforcement. There are still mistakes made in current cases.

I am glad that you are perfect in whatever job you do but law enforcement isn't a perfect science and especially wasn't then.

I have zero issue with cracking down on police corruption and willful misconduct but I do take issue with smug jackasses like you who sit in your lazy boy recliner "researching" cases and pass judgement as if your opinion is actually worth a *.

Please stop with the tough guy talk, personal insults and betting challenges.  Let's just stick to the actual topic.

I didn't say anything about misconduct, or wrong doing on purpose, so I don't know why you're saying that.  I think it was cock up, rather than conspiracy.

Out of interest, and it's a serious question: how could I have done a worse job in a case that went unsolved for over forty years, and didn't ever have the perp on any suspect list?  

[Captain]

Feb 17, 2019 21:14:02 GMT sammyt said:

Feb 17, 2019 20:47:43 GMT Captain said:

First of all, the cop bashing is ignorant and unwarranted. You have ZERO proof there was any wrong doing done on purpose. PM me and we'll exchange PayPal information because I would gladly take a bet with you regarding proof of misconduct, or lack thereof. There is a difference between misconduct and making honest mistakes.

Second, had these agencies dealt with a predator like EAR before? No. If you think you could've done a better job then you are seriously delusional. How long have you been a detective? Did you serve in that era when law enforcement was still experiencing serious growing pains?

Third, do you understand the concept of "hindsight" & how one's perception of an event is altered by it compared to how people perceive it as an event is happening? Apparently not.

Look, I get it bro, you're an expert detective but times were much different then. Research any well-known case from that era and you'll see PLENTY of honest mistakes made by law enforcement. There are still mistakes made in current cases.

I am glad that you are perfect in whatever job you do but law enforcement isn't a perfect science and especially wasn't then.

I have zero issue with cracking down on police corruption and willful misconduct but I do take issue with smug jackasses like you who sit in your lazy boy recliner "researching" cases and pass judgement as if your opinion is actually worth a *.

Please stop with the tough guy talk, personal insults and betting challenges.  Let's just stick to the actual topic.

I didn't say anything about misconduct, or wrong doing on purpose, so I don't know why you're saying that.  I think it was cock up, rather than conspiracy.

Out of interest, and it's a serious question: how could I have done a worse job in a case that went unsolved for over forty years, and didn't ever have the perp on any suspect list?  

Tough guy talk? Lol. Never claimed to be a tough guy but as an offshore commercial fishing boat captain and former soldier I am sure I am tougher than you Reddit Detective.

If there was no willful misconduct and police were hindered by the times, then what's your problem? I'm sorry you got a speeding ticket from some local police officer but your bias against law enforcement is a bit ridiculous. What is so unbelievable about JJD not being on a POI list? Ironically you'll believe in police cover-ups and conspiracies but not the fact JJD was a needle in a haystack. Why would he be on any lists? Because he shoplifted & threatened his chief? What reason did JJD give LE to suspect him? Answer that Sherlock. Please, we are all dying for your expert analysis. While you're at it please tell me why the Zodiac, LISK, I70 Killer, & the droves of other serial killers haven't been caught yet. All police cover-ups and * poor investigations?

[faser41]

Feb 17, 2019 20:18:16 GMT sammyt said:

Feb 17, 2019 5:02:01 GMT Captain said:

I can honestly say I don't envy law enforcement, past or present, especially in high profile cases like this one. They are one of the few groups of people in our society who are constantly ridiculed, told how to do their job by unqualified members of the public, & are often characterized solely on the actions of the ultra small % of corrupt/unprofessional officers in their ranks.

Even when LE solves crimes, there are droves of people who will still nitpick and critique the investigation. Of course we all wish JJD was caught and stopped decades ago but as Deb said, they did their best.

Whenever I see Carol Daley, Shelby, Crompton, Larry Pool, & Paul Holes speak during an interview I can see in their eyes how much this case affected them & how sincere they were in their quest to solve this case. To say they were anything but professional, dedicated, & sincere in their work is beyond ignorant. I have zero doubt in my mind that everyone who worked this case wanted nothing more than to see this solved.

I truly wish those who repeatedly bash law enforcement would take a minute and just imagine the stress & pressure of the job. Beyond the stress of constantly putting yourself in potentially fatal situations, think of the stress that comes with doing everything in your power to catch a serial predator and to bring justice to the victims & their families but coming up short day after day. I remember very distinctly Larry Crompton talking about laying awake at night wondering what clue he had missed and what he could've done better to solve this case. Can you imagine how taxing that is on somebody especially when it goes on for years and years? Most of us will never have that weight on our shoulders.

I know this is a long post but the police bashing on this board is unwarranted and born out of nothing more than ignorance.

Or you could say the police failed to announce to the public that a serial rapist was on the loose, failed to share information with other forces throughout this case, threw away forensic evidence, arrested an innocent man in Joe Alsip, messed up the 7/11 stakeout, messed up another stakeout by parking a patrol car next door, neglected to make composite sketches of the 7/11 and realtor suspects, insisted EAR was exactly 5'9" when he wasn't, eliminated suspects based on reported penis size, took ten years to approve a dna test for a former case detective's pet suspect, ignored Visalia PD about the VR links, wasted time investigating 13 year old suspects etc etc etc...

IMO this investigation was a hot mess from start to finish.  You're entitled to a different opinion of course, but let's not pretend that every cop played a perfect game.

Nobody is bashing the cops for just the sake of it.  Some people don't have a dog in the fight, but it's hardly ignorant to highlight that the police were far from professional on many occasions.

And let's not forgot that it was an active cop who was the actual rapist all along.





Fwiw I betcha it all comes down to politics. Everything is political. There are people who are good at what they do and there are those who are just good politicians. Politicians are often just that, political people, they are not necessarily good at what they do. Quite often successful political people are NOT very good at what they do. DeAngelo may not have been a very good cop. I’m betting he was even worse at the politics of his job. He was, however, way ahead of the bell curve in causing mayhem and thwarting the politicians (those with status in the rank and file), showing them all that he was better than them. Not blaming, just saying.

[otis1]

Feb 17, 2019 5:02:01 GMT Captain said:

I can honestly say I don't envy law enforcement, past or present, especially in high profile cases like this one. They are one of the few groups of people in our society who are constantly ridiculed, told how to do their job by unqualified members of the public, & are often characterized solely on the actions of the ultra small % of corrupt/unprofessional officers in their ranks.

Even when LE solves crimes, there are droves of people who will still nitpick and critique the investigation. Of course we all wish JJD was caught and stopped decades ago but as Deb said, they did their best.

Whenever I see Carol Daley, Shelby, Crompton, Larry Pool, & Paul Holes speak during an interview I can see in their eyes how much this case affected them & how sincere they were in their quest to solve this case. To say they were anything but professional, dedicated, & sincere in their work is beyond ignorant. I have zero doubt in my mind that everyone who worked this case wanted nothing more than to see this solved.

I truly wish those who repeatedly bash law enforcement would take a minute and just imagine the stress & pressure of the job. Beyond the stress of constantly putting yourself in potentially fatal situations, think of the stress that comes with doing everything in your power to catch a serial predator and to bring justice to the victims & their families but coming up short day after day. I remember very distinctly Larry Crompton talking about laying awake at night wondering what clue he had missed and what he could've done better to solve this case. Can you imagine how taxing that is on somebody especially when it goes on for years and years? Most of us will never have that weight on our shoulders.

I know this is a long post but the police bashing on this board is unwarranted and born out of nothing more than ignorance.

I like all of your posts in this thread. Well done, not a word that I don't vigorously agree with. I want to re-post them in practically every thread. 

Those with weak intellects cling to conspiracy theories. More than being unwilling, they appear to be intellectually incapable of understanding the principle of scientific parsimony. There's no vast right-wing conspiracy, no thin blue line conspiracy, Jewish money (aka "the Benjamin's") doesn't control governments, FDR didn't "let" Pearl Harbor happen, LBJ didn't kill JFK, Vladimir Putin didn't brainwash Americans into voting for President Trump, there's no alien spaceships secreted at government 'black sites'.

AND ...

Nobody, I repeat nobody, not-one-single-person in California law enforcement or any other official capacity in California attempted to deflect suspicion of a rapist and/or murderer being a small town cop.