Overview of the Delphi Murders

[elir]

Jun 18, 2019 21:17:24 GMT tongue said:

Jun 17, 2019 2:20:29 GMT elir said:

I don’t believe that true . LE have not released any info on the state of the bodies or even on the cause of death. The girls were found by volunteers in the search party one of whom was an uncle to one of the girls ( he is married to the mothers sister) there are s lot of rumors about the scene and the state of the girls but none that I have heard said there was an issue identifying the girls .

the most common rumor is that the girls were nearly decapitated , that Libby appeared to be a focus for the killer”s anger .the more credible rumors also suggest that the girls were not sexually assaulted. So those are rumors that are common or that I believe may have some credibility based on the source. According to one of the sources , the police with help from the fbi really did a deep dive looking at local people with history of disturbed behavior but couldn’t find anyone that whose past history and physical profile met all the criteria. It sounds like the cops are doing all they can to find the killer.

Decapitated? Very disturbing but I imagine it takes a bit of strength and time to try and decapitate someone..?.let's assume he did try to do this or he accomplished it, what does this say about him? Does it say he felt comfortable enough in the park to be able to do this?that or he was just a very very disturbed individual..?decapitations are quite uncommon I'd assume when it comes to murders 

  Btw I've watched this suspect in the clips and I don't get the vibe that he was impaired or drunk..I just see a guy walking on railroad tracks that may not want to be seen

So to clarify , the rumor is throats slashed to point of near decapitation . Open casket at memorial/ funeral but alleged that there were scarfs or some such around neck . I am stating the more prevalent rumors that have persisted.but am ambivalent because does this do more harm than good? some aspects of the LE effort seems well focused but other aspects seem completely off. At the April 22 press conference they made a number of misstatements that they had to clarify through official statements some days afterwards. So I’m considering these rumors to try to understand the how and why of their approach.

If the murders were as violent as suggested by the rumors then one scenario isn’t the standard sociopathic serial killer but a different profile. There is a nasty crystal meth
problem in the area. Could someone in a meth fueled psychosis do this? Local to the general area but not in a set location due to addiction?

Could explain disturbing aspects of murder, strength to pull it off , and difficulty in finding him afterwards. This would be more if the moment of planned that day as paranoia is peaking. He might have a vehicle but maybe he’s essentially living in it.

[tongue]

Jun 18, 2019 23:37:18 GMT elir said:

Jun 18, 2019 21:17:24 GMT tongue said:

Decapitated? Very disturbing but I imagine it takes a bit of strength and time to try and decapitate someone..?.let's assume he did try to do this or he accomplished it, what does this say about him? Does it say he felt comfortable enough in the park to be able to do this?that or he was just a very very disturbed individual..?decapitations are quite uncommon I'd assume when it comes to murders 

  Btw I've watched this suspect in the clips and I don't get the vibe that he was impaired or drunk..I just see a guy walking on railroad tracks that may not want to be seen

So to clarify , the rumor is throats slashed to point of near decapitation . Open casket at memorial/ funeral but alleged that there were scarfs or some such around neck . I am stating the more prevalent rumors that have persisted.but am ambivalent because does this do more harm than good? some aspects of the LE effort seems well focused but other aspects seem completely off. At the April 22 press conference they made a number of misstatements that they had to clarify through official statements some days afterwards. So I’m considering these rumors to try to understand the how and why of their approach.

If the murders were as violent as suggested by the rumors then one scenario isn’t the standard sociopathic serial killer but a different profile. There is a nasty crystal meth
problem in the area. Could someone in a meth fueled psychosis do this? Local to the general area but not in a set location due to addiction?

Could explain disturbing aspects of murder, strength to pull it off , and difficulty in finding him afterwards. This would be more if the moment of planned that day as paranoia is peaking. He might have a vehicle but maybe he’s essentially living in it.

Interesting stuff..it's obvious(?) that the method of murder was abnormal in some way other than simple stabbing.

  crystal meth will definitely turn a relatively normal guy into a sex obsessed and very violent and impulsive fellow..this could explain why he would go after 2 teenage girls..meth makes you ultra confident, focused and determined!users of meth and other stimulants have been known to be extremely violent so it's definitely possible the suspect was high on meth! 

  How often do lone men decide to go after two girls at once though? Isn't this extremely uncommon? I'll try to go find some stats on this 

[elir]

There is a case in Iowa with two young girks killed in the woods , some have wondered if there is a connection between the two sets of murders .

Was there only 1 person? We assume that Police know this because of the recording Libby made. They have they are only looking for one person but then turn around and say they aren’t ruling out a second person but those are more games (in my opinion) . .

It would seem really difficult to abduct these two girls. What’s most likely is that if he had a gun on them or had his hands on one of them the other wouldn’t leave . The families have said that they believe one would never run off and leave the other so as long as he physically had one under his control he had essentially had both .

What’s strange too is that sound carries pretty easily there ,during the search for the girls people could yell back and forth to one another , there are houses not far from the trails were they were found dead, according to police there were a few people in the area of the bridges and trails. So why didn’t anyone hear them screaming fior their lives?
And why couldn’t they out run this guy to get to one of the homes ?

It is all a puzzle , a nasty awful puzzle.

[cluso]

www.crimeonline.com/2019/06/20/thursday-crime-stories-live-from-crime-con-2-girls-murdered-at-local-delphi-bridge-families-search-for-answers/

[almagata]

Jun 21, 2019 11:26:40 GMT cluso said:

www.crimeonline.com/2019/06/20/thursday-crime-stories-live-from-crime-con-2-girls-murdered-at-local-delphi-bridge-families-search-for-answers/

Thanks for posting but I would rather pull out all my eyelashes than listen to Nancy Grace. 

[griswold]

Jun 18, 2019 21:17:24 GMT tongue said:

Jun 17, 2019 2:20:29 GMT elir said:

I don’t believe that true . LE have not released any info on the state of the bodies or even on the cause of death. The girls were found by volunteers in the search party one of whom was an uncle to one of the girls ( he is married to the mothers sister) there are s lot of rumors about the scene and the state of the girls but none that I have heard said there was an issue identifying the girls .

the most common rumor is that the girls were nearly decapitated , that Libby appeared to be a focus for the killer”s anger .the more credible rumors also suggest that the girls were not sexually assaulted. So those are rumors that are common or that I believe may have some credibility based on the source. According to one of the sources , the police with help from the fbi really did a deep dive looking at local people with history of disturbed behavior but couldn’t find anyone that whose past history and physical profile met all the criteria. It sounds like the cops are doing all they can to find the killer.

Decapitated? Very disturbing but I imagine it takes a bit of strength and time to try and decapitate someone..?.let's assume he did try to do this or he accomplished it, what does this say about him? Does it say he felt comfortable enough in the park to be able to do this?that or he was just a very very disturbed individual..?decapitations are quite uncommon I'd assume when it comes to murders 

  Btw I've watched this suspect in the clips and I don't get the vibe that he was impaired or drunk..I just see a guy walking on railroad tracks that may not want to be seen

Check out theYNC.com and you can see that it takes virtually no effort or time to decapitate someone, and the same machetes are available at WalMart. I use them for landscaping and hacking through the woods, somethings they are originally intended for.

[Agent99 aka Sandia]

Jun 21, 2019 18:11:18 GMT almagata said:

Jun 21, 2019 11:26:40 GMT cluso said:

www.crimeonline.com/2019/06/20/thursday-crime-stories-live-from-crime-con-2-girls-murdered-at-local-delphi-bridge-families-search-for-answers/

Thanks for posting but I would rather pull out all my eyelashes than listen to Nancy Grace. 

Hi Almagata,  I'm going to listen even though Nancy can be irritating and doesn't always have her facts quite straight but I am trying to listen to everything.  This case is so full of conflicting information and rumors.

The police say one thing and then another.  But the latest I'm trying to get a handle on.  I have one main question for you.... do you have an opinion is what Kelsi German said.  I listened to her being interviewed by James Renner.  She stated very clearly that when she dropped the girls off there were 10 to 20 young people around her age there but by the time her father went to pick up the girls there were less.  I have no idea where she means all these other kids were.....at the same spot she dropped the girls at?  by the Freedom Bridge?  Were there a bunch of cars there?  Did she recognize any of those kids?

Gray Hughes says that is absolutely false and there were not kids there.  Kelsi is on film telling James Renner there were.  Randy Gravitt said that Kelsi keeps changing her story.  I am sure I haven't heard every interview with her.  Could it be she said that to protect herself and her family from all the bullying and criticism they were getting on social media for allowing the girls to go to that place in the first place?  (I don't blame them, it's a small town with nothing to do.  It was a place a lot of kids went for adventure to cross the scary bridge and walk the trails and the creek.  Hindsight is 20/20)  So I don't know what to think.  It does not seem logical to me there were that many people there because I don't see how this killer could think he could get away with it if there were. 

Actually I don't know how he thought he could get away with it anyway.  There was Cheyenne and her friend, there was flannel shirt guy, and there was a woman walking her dog, there were houses near by, there was a private road going to one of the houses (the owner of that home said that her son came home near the time they were murdered and if they had been going down the hill at that time he would have seen them.  It was winter, no leaves on the trees so good visibility and probably sound carried pretty good without a lot of greenery and foliage to muffle sounds. 

Maybe these different people were not around when he attacked the girls and just showed up soon after?  Question 2 for you....Do you think this indicate he was not from around there and thought that this place was more isolated that it was? 

I am wondering if this was a traveling serial killer that also killed the 10 and 8 year old cousins, Elizabeth & Lyric in Evansdale, Iowa, 5 years before.  They were also on a nature trail by a body of water in a very small town. 

But.....he was walking across that terrifying bridge with his hands in his pockets, seems like that indicates he was familiar with walking across it and the police seem to think he was a local or at least used to live or work in Delphi.

Any opinions?

[elir]

Re the number of kids around,, There may be differing ideas re the timing and the definition of the area.i would tend to trust Kelsi German on this. It was alledged by locals that police visited some people in town because their phones were pinging I’m the general area of the murders within a certain time frame . Thiis included kids that were in the area. Unverified , but certainly consistent with what LE should do to find witnesses and get a look at who was there at the time



Yes, Evansdale, , it certainly has surface similarities with Delphi. We do not know if those common elements extend to the method of death and any particulars about the scene. . Is there no DNA to link the scene ? Maybe if we can get more details on Evansdale it would help. To asses the likelihood that these murders are linked .

[almagata]

Jun 21, 2019 22:47:24 GMT Agent99 aka Sandia said:

Jun 21, 2019 18:11:18 GMT almagata said:

Thanks for posting but I would rather pull out all my eyelashes than listen to Nancy Grace. 

Hi Almagata,  I'm going to listen even though Nancy can be irritating and doesn't always have her facts quite straight but I am trying to listen to everything.  This case is so full of conflicting information and rumors.

The police say one thing and then another.  But the latest I'm trying to get a handle on.  I have one main question for you.... do you have an opinion is what Kelsi German said.  I listened to her being interviewed by James Renner.  She stated very clearly that when she dropped the girls off there were 10 to 20 young people around her age there but by the time her father went to pick up the girls there were less.  I have no idea where she means all these other kids were.....at the same spot she dropped the girls at?  by the Freedom Bridge?  Were there a bunch of cars there?  Did she recognize any of those kids?

Gray Hughes says that is absolutely false and there were not kids there.  Kelsi is on film telling James Renner there were.  Randy Gravitt said that Kelsi keeps changing her story.  I am sure I haven't heard every interview with her.  Could it be she said that to protect herself and her family from all the bullying and criticism they were getting on social media for allowing the girls to go to that place in the first place?  (I don't blame them, it's a small town with nothing to do.  It was a place a lot of kids went for adventure to cross the scary bridge and walk the trails and the creek.  Hindsight is 20/20)  So I don't know what to think.  It does not seem logical to me there were that many people there because I don't see how this killer could think he could get away with it if there were. 

Actually I don't know how he thought he could get away with it anyway.  There was Cheyenne and her friend, there was flannel shirt guy, and there was a woman walking her dog, there were houses near by, there was a private road going to one of the houses (the owner of that home said that her son came home near the time they were murdered and if they had been going down the hill at that time he would have seen them.  It was winter, no leaves on the trees so good visibility and probably sound carried pretty good without a lot of greenery and foliage to muffle sounds. 

Maybe these different people were not around when he attacked the girls and just showed up soon after?  Question 2 for you....Do you think this indicate he was not from around there and thought that this place was more isolated that it was? 

I am wondering if this was a traveling serial killer that also killed the 10 and 8 year old cousins, Elizabeth & Lyric in Evansdale, Iowa, 5 years before.  They were also on a nature trail by a body of water in a very small town. 

But.....he was walking across that terrifying bridge with his hands in his pockets, seems like that indicates he was familiar with walking across it and the police seem to think he was a local or at least used to live or work in Delphi.

Any opinions?

Hi Sandia,

I've tried to listen or read everything on this case but I will make this one exception.  :-)  Please let us know if you hear something interesting.

On your questions, I did listen to the James Renner interview with Kelsi. From what I understand, she did not get out of the car when Abby and Libby were dropped off so she really does not know who was on the trail. She may have seen kids either at the trailhead off W 300 N road or at the Freedom bridge but they may have been leaving not heading out toward the bridge.  She is very young and being young and pressed into a media frenzy is a very difficult position even for adults. 

Do I think he is from the area?  Yes, I tend to think he is from the area.  Crossing that creek in the winter to private property to commit a double murder during the day tells me he had a pretty good idea that he would not be discovered by someone fishing or hiking in the area.  Only someone that has a good knowledge of that area would know that he would not likely be discovered by some random person enjoying the outdoors especially that close to the creek. 

I spend a lot of time on the trails near my home.  Most of the areas that I walk, I see people every half hour or so.  Some areas that I walk are more remote and I know that I will see people less often but it is always possible that I will see someone. I see people more often when I'm near the shore of the lake or the river.  

One of the problems with going onto private property is that there often is no well defined trails and it makes traversing these areas more difficult.  If there is no trail to follow, often times people have trouble finding there way out of wooded areas.  This man did not have this problem.  He was able to navigate his way out of the area and avoid interaction with the people that were searching for Abby and Libby.  Even Ron Logan, the property owner, said that the area was hard to access. The killer was comfortable in the outdoors and with crossing that bridge. 

Most outdoors enthusiasts try very hard not to get their shoes and socks wet especially in the winter.  This killer did not have any reservations about crossing that very cold creek in February. 

I think all these details tell us a lot about who the police should be looking for. 

[Agent99 aka Sandia]

Jun 22, 2019 21:49:05 GMT almagata said:

Jun 21, 2019 22:47:24 GMT Agent99 aka Sandia said:

Hi Almagata,  I'm going to listen even though Nancy can be irritating and doesn't always have her facts quite straight but I am trying to listen to everything.  This case is so full of conflicting information and rumors.

The police say one thing and then another.  But the latest I'm trying to get a handle on.  I have one main question for you.... do you have an opinion is what Kelsi German said.  I listened to her being interviewed by James Renner.  She stated very clearly that when she dropped the girls off there were 10 to 20 young people around her age there but by the time her father went to pick up the girls there were less.  I have no idea where she means all these other kids were.....at the same spot she dropped the girls at?  by the Freedom Bridge?  Were there a bunch of cars there?  Did she recognize any of those kids?

Gray Hughes says that is absolutely false and there were not kids there.  Kelsi is on film telling James Renner there were.  Randy Gravitt said that Kelsi keeps changing her story.  I am sure I haven't heard every interview with her.  Could it be she said that to protect herself and her family from all the bullying and criticism they were getting on social media for allowing the girls to go to that place in the first place?  (I don't blame them, it's a small town with nothing to do.  It was a place a lot of kids went for adventure to cross the scary bridge and walk the trails and the creek.  Hindsight is 20/20)  So I don't know what to think.  It does not seem logical to me there were that many people there because I don't see how this killer could think he could get away with it if there were. 

Actually I don't know how he thought he could get away with it anyway.  There was Cheyenne and her friend, there was flannel shirt guy, and there was a woman walking her dog, there were houses near by, there was a private road going to one of the houses (the owner of that home said that her son came home near the time they were murdered and if they had been going down the hill at that time he would have seen them.  It was winter, no leaves on the trees so good visibility and probably sound carried pretty good without a lot of greenery and foliage to muffle sounds. 

Maybe these different people were not around when he attacked the girls and just showed up soon after?  Question 2 for you....Do you think this indicate he was not from around there and thought that this place was more isolated that it was? 

I am wondering if this was a traveling serial killer that also killed the 10 and 8 year old cousins, Elizabeth & Lyric in Evansdale, Iowa, 5 years before.  They were also on a nature trail by a body of water in a very small town. 

But.....he was walking across that terrifying bridge with his hands in his pockets, seems like that indicates he was familiar with walking across it and the police seem to think he was a local or at least used to live or work in Delphi.

Any opinions?

Hi Sandia,

I've tried to listen or read everything on this case but I will make this one exception.  :-)  Please let us know if you hear something interesting.

On your questions, I did listen to the James Renner interview with Kelsi. From what I understand, she did not get out of the car when Abby and Libby were dropped off so she really does not know who was on the trail. She may have seen kids either at the trailhead off W 300 N road or at the Freedom bridge but they may have been leaving not heading out toward the bridge.  She is very young and being young and pressed into a media frenzy is a very difficult position even for adults. 

Do I think he is from the area?  Yes, I tend to think he is from the area.  Crossing that creek in the winter to private property to commit a double murder during the day tells me he had a pretty good idea that he would not be discovered by someone fishing or hiking in the area.  Only someone that has a good knowledge of that area would know that he would not likely be discovered by some random person enjoying the outdoors especially that close to the creek. 

I spend a lot of time on the trails near my home.  Most of the areas that I walk, I see people every half hour or so.  Some areas that I walk are more remote and I know that I will see people less often but it is always possible that I will see someone. I see people more often when I'm near the shore of the lake or the river.  

One of the problems with going onto private property is that there often is no well defined trails and it makes traversing these areas more difficult.  If there is no trail to follow, often times people have trouble finding there way out of wooded areas.  This man did not have this problem.  He was able to navigate his way out of the area and avoid interaction with the people that were searching for Abby and Libby.  Even Ron Logan, the property owner, said that the area was hard to access. The killer was comfortable in the outdoors and with crossing that bridge. 

Most outdoors enthusiasts try very hard not to get their shoes and socks wet especially in the winter.  This killer did not have any reservations about crossing that very cold creek in February. 

I think all these details tell us a lot about who the police should be looking for. 

Thanks Almagata, good to have your take on it.


  

[mcgreggor]

Long time lurker rarely posted.

Hadn't heard of this case until it was posted on here. It's so sad and haunting. All murders are sad, but when it's kids who are doing nothing wrong except being kids exceptionally so. Then the recording of the perp, geez.. What must have been going through their heads.

I think this guy is unquestionably local. I'm confused about something though. Does the bridge dead end? I'm having a hard time understanding how he cornered both. Appearances can be deceiving athletic wise as we know from GSK. So maybe the guy was an athlete. But how does he corner both.
And one of the girls was a true crime buff from what I've heard. She would surely know your odds of escaping and surviving are never better that first encounter. Were they trapped?

[Deleted]

Jun 23, 2019 21:25:39 GMT mcgreggor said:

Long time lurker rarely posted.

Hadn't heard of this case until it was posted on here. It's so sad and haunting. All murders are sad, but when it's kids who are doing nothing wrong except being kids exceptionally so. Then the recording of the perp, geez.. What must have been going through their heads.

I think this guy is unquestionably local. I'm confused about something though. Does the bridge dead end? I'm having a hard time understanding how he cornered both. Appearances can be deceiving athletic wise as we know from GSK. So maybe the guy was an athlete. But how does he corner both.
And one of the girls was a true crime buff from what I've heard. She would surely know your odds of escaping and surviving are never better that first encounter. Were they trapped?

The bridge does not dead end. I've never been there before but I know people who have walked it. I think it's likely that he had a weapon that helped him control them.

Edit: after looking over your post history, I admire your dedication, diligence and restraint. Truly admirable.

[Agent99 aka Sandia]

Jun 23, 2019 21:25:39 GMT mcgreggor said:

Long time lurker rarely posted.

Hadn't heard of this case until it was posted on here. It's so sad and haunting. All murders are sad, but when it's kids who are doing nothing wrong except being kids exceptionally so. Then the recording of the perp, geez.. What must have been going through their heads.

I think this guy is unquestionably local. I'm confused about something though. Does the bridge dead end? I'm having a hard time understanding how he cornered both. Appearances can be deceiving athletic wise as we know from GSK. So maybe the guy was an athlete. But how does he corner both.
And one of the girls was a true crime buff from what I've heard. She would surely know your odds of escaping and surviving are never better that first encounter. Were they trapped?

Actually it does dead end in a way.  There is still some land to walk on but it doesn't really go anywhere.  Below the bridge there is a private road that goes to a home.  The reason I'm interested in this case is because again in spite of the terrible tragedy, they mystery is very intriguing.   I agree with you those two little girls look like they came straight out of Tom Sawyer and Huckleberry Finn, little innocents just out enjoying a nature walk.  How anyone can harm another human being is beyond me but to murder kids.  There is a special place in hell for these monsters.

About it being local, you are agreeing with a lot of people including LE. 

I just wonder though....I'm thinking of the two little cousins that were even younger, Elizabeth Collins and Lyric Cook in Evansdale, Iowa also a very small town and also out on a nature trail by Meyers lake.  They were abducted and found some years later elsewhere.  Many think they could be connected.  What if it is a serial killer that travels around in that part of the country, and looks for nature trails.  Delphi advertises it's nature trails and the Monon High bridge as local attractions. 

People think he had to be very familiar with the area to walk across the bridge, but in the case of DeAngelo, he was known to be a risk taker.  This could be the case with the Bridge Guy (BG).  Also what if he just familiarized himself with the area, walking around, crossing the bridge a number of times for a day or two or a week or perhaps every time he would travel through the area if he was say for instance a truck driver.   

Actually, it's amazing he got away.  It turns out there were quite a few people around.  He might have believed it was less popular a place to go that it was.  This might indicate he wasn't local.

One more thing about not being local....that town is little, 3,000 people.  Nobody recognizes him? and they have him on film!  Nobody recognizes the voice?

It's also possible he used to live in Delphi when he was younger and no longer does but went to that area as a kid.  If he was young enough, nobody would recognize how he looks now and not recognize his voice.

This is a very interesting case, but a very  tragic one.

[elir]

Jun 23, 2019 22:12:25 GMT @wonkybob said:

Jun 23, 2019 21:25:39 GMT mcgreggor said:

Long time lurker rarely posted.

Hadn't heard of this case until it was posted on here. It's so sad and haunting. All murders are sad, but when it's kids who are doing nothing wrong except being kids exceptionally so. Then the recording of the perp, geez.. What must have been going through their heads.

I think this guy is unquestionably local. I'm confused about something though. Does the bridge dead end? I'm having a hard time understanding how he cornered both. Appearances can be deceiving athletic wise as we know from GSK. So maybe the guy was an athlete. But how does he corner both.
And one of the girls was a true crime buff from what I've heard. She would surely know your odds of escaping and surviving are never better that first encounter. Were they trapped?

The bridge does not dead end. I've never been there before but I know people who have walked it. I think it's likely that he had a weapon that helped him control them.

Edit: after looking over your post history, I admire your dedication, diligence and restraint. Truly admirable.

According to the maps, the trail meets the bridge at the Northwest end and there is no formal  trail at the southeast end of the bridge. Are there informal foot paths? A private road is very close to the southeast end of the bridge , certainly within the ability of a teen to run for help. Agree that it certainly seems that he would have to have a way to control the girls , keeping them from calling out or making a break for those homes.
Monon_High_Bridge

[elir]

Jun 24, 2019 8:01:16 GMT elir said:

Jun 23, 2019 22:12:25 GMT @wonkybob said:

The bridge does not dead end. I've never been there before but I know people who have walked it. I think it's likely that he had a weapon that helped him control them.

Edit: after looking over your post history, I admire your dedication, diligence and restraint. Truly admirable.

According to the maps, the trail meets the bridge at the Northwest end and there is no formal  trail at the southeast end of the bridge. Are there informal foot paths? A private road is very close to the southeast end of the bridge , certainly within the ability of a teen to run for help. Agree that it certainly seems that he would have to have a way to control the girls , keeping them from calling out or making a break for those homes.
Monon_High_Bridge

I edited my posting because I found abetter resource: The map linked here has photos taken during the fall or winter, without leaf cover. It allows you to see the end of the bridge. One can also click on parcels to see details on the property owners. It gives a sense of how close the crime was in proximity to trails, roads, and private homes. Without tree cover, it was very exposed. Increases the mystery of how this could happen.

beacon.schneidercorp.com/Application.aspx?AppID=377&LayerID=5553&PageTypeID=1&PageID=0

Carroll County Indiana property map